Protesting a $3000 price for an E30 feels like 1960s muscle in the 1980s.

[OnTheFence]

LATE 2011:
Today, I am seeing straight nicely preserved E30s being called "outrageously" priced at $3000.
I mean what do you want to pay for a running car with a nice interior and decent body?
How much lower can it go? What do you expect for $2500?
Bargaining from $3000 to $2700 almost seems inconsequential.
If $300 is an issue, you probably shouldn't be buying the car anyway.


I remember in high school, you could get a very decent 1960s Camaro for $3000.
A daily driver could be found for $1500.
A show car was in the $7000+ range.
Fast forward a bunch of years, and these cars started going for $30,000.


It almost seems comical to go back to the 1980s and say "$3000?
I'll give you $2800, that's my last offer" It's now a rounding error.


I am not saying E30s will ever be that collectible, or ever be worth more than $3000,
but when shopping for an E30 in 2011, I can't help but be reminded of $3000 1960s muscle cars in the 1980s.


Does anyone here know where I am coming from?


==========================
UPDATE (9 months later)


E30s are now selling in the $5000+ range


Back when I was shopping E30s about 6 months ago, there were countless threads with people saying they wouldn't pay anything more than $600-$1200 for a straight E30 with no rust and a clean interior.
Market forces will paint a very different reality.


http://newyork.craigslist.org/brx/cto/3103253232.html
http://newyork.craigslist.org/fct/cto/3102918045.html
http://newyork.craigslist.org/brk/cto/3102028344.html


==========================
UPDATE (2 years later)


Late 2013, I see a 1988 325 being sold for $14k
http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=307062


==========================
UPDATE (2.5 years later)


Have prices gone up in the last 3 years?
Or can you still get a clean E30 for $3000 ?


$19k for an E30 ?
http://bringatrailer.com/2014/03/27/...bmw-e30-323is/


==========================
UPDATE (3+ years later)
I just saw a 100k mile E30 sell for over $12,000.
Is this fairly normal?
Are the days of $5000 E30s ancient history?


==========================
2015: Just saw a 325e sell for $7000
http://bringatrailer.com/listing/1984-bmw-325e/


==========================
2016: This automatic just sold for $10,000
http://bringatrailer.com/2016/03/05/...1989-bmw-325i/


==========================
Dec 2016: This covertible just sold for $15,000
http://bringatrailer.com/listing/1987-bmw-325i-7/


==========================
Feb 2017:
Wow, an E30 just sold for $20,000.
The same car sold for $13k in 2014.
http://bringatrailer.com/listing/1990-bmw-325is-7/


==========================
Nov 2017:
60k mile E30 just sold for over $20,000.
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1988-bmw-325ic-7/


==========================
April 2019:

175,000 mile E30 325i just sold for $16k on BAT
Remember when people said $3000 was too much ?
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1990-bmw-325is-28/?

[caesar101]

Look at the other cars that can be had for $3000, Autotrader brings up 72 car form 2500-3500 dollars none are older than 1992 in my area. So if you're looking for a project sure an e30 is the way to go, if you're just looking for a car to drive an '97 Accord for $2900 is a better place to be. Really all in what you are looking for and where you live.

[thejlevie]

I'm not sure what your point is, but these days an E30 with modrate mileage, no body damage or rust, good paint, and a good interior can easily top $3000. A very well maintained example in very good condition will be well north of that.

[Stroke5]

Yeop. I'm remembering a pretty much flawless '66 Goat for $1200 back in '79 I think, numerous Trans Ams all south of a couple grand, a coupla different Corvairs, a nicely warmed over Rambler, several different variants of the 70s H-body platform including a pretty mean little V8 Monza, a Cosworth Vega, one horribly abused VW Bug, etc, etc.

`course, even a grand was a lot more money 20-30 yrs ago than it is now. Today & in the current e30 market, I'd want a rust free runner for $2500. Something that needs very little to assure it's reliable DD status. I'll point out that mine's been dead reliable for the last year without any major expenses - I've had time to learn the car & discover for myself where the money needs to go.

If you end up being anything like the rest of us you'll dump money into however nice an example you find, so be patient & find your deal. I'll end up with around $7500 in mine. Quite a bit of that beyond the original $2500 is personal preference - like tires & wheels. The car didn't need them, I wanted them - same with much of what I've done aside from the coupla grand in renewal that's going into her over the weeknd. The break-out on mine will end up being the $2500 purchase price for a solid, rust free driver, $2500 in required maintenance & renewal, & another $2500 in desireable but not necessary nice-nice.

There's little if any chance at all that it'll ever sell for that or more, but it's not bad for a reliable keeper. I can't think of anything I could go buy for that money that I'd rather drive daily.

[strad]

Well I haven't gone E30 shopping for a few years. And I'm not planning to sell the one I still have for another few years (and I'll try and avoid selling it if I can think of a way to convince the wife that having a ski boat and a convertible at the same time is a good thing).

But I really think the economy is the biggest drag on E30 prices right now. And I'm not talking about junk cars that need tons of work. I'm talking about nicer cars like some of the forum members have. I think if the economy straightens itself out that demand for E30s and other "fun" cars will take off, and prices will go north. I think as potential buyers find themselves with more money to spend, it'll do good things for the E30.

[Stroke5]

(and I'll try and avoid selling it if I can think of a way to convince the wife that having a ski boat and a convertible at the same time is a good thing).

The `vert is absolutely essential to laying down a good base tan before you go out in the boat ...

(I'm here to help, man)

[ForcedFirebird]

I'm not sure what your point is, but these days an E30 with modrate mileage, no body damage or rust, good paint, and a good interior can easily top $3000. A very well maintained example in very good condition will be well north of that.

This.

I paid $3500 for my 74k mile e30 (325es) in mint condition 5yrs ago. Drove it 3yrs only changing oil and the fan clutch with the dated early 90's tires even (yes the tires were from the 90's and lasted 3yrs). Then started modifying it for performance.

Now take an avg "cheap" car payment over those 3yrs and it far outweighs the car I bought.

It's only worth it to you if it give you good return on investment and YOU like it. I just insured my car fully for $10k replacement, it's freshly painted with stock color. With just under 100k miles with new shocks, springs, late model cylinder head and ECU and is still a blast to drive, fun on the track/road and is cheap/easy to maintain, and it turns heads and get's comments every time it's driven.

In short, I love my e30.

[red88ix]

Just a couple of quick observations. First I completely agree that haggling over a couple of hundred bucks on a $3000 car is pretty absurd. Even more so if the haggling ends up costing you a car that you want.

Second, it is nearly impossible to find a safe, mechanically sound, decent looking car in this community for under about $4000 unless you just get lucky. If you walk on to a used car lot, that four grand will only buy you a rolling death trap.That makes a sound e30 look like a good investment.

And finally, on the subject of investment and return on money spent on an e30. You've got to be kidding. The only way to get a return on your investment on one of these cars is to buy one from somebody who has spent the money to improve the car and let them take the loss. In fact that is true of cars in general. And it is what dealers depend on.

I hope our cars appreciate wildly and someday I can get what I know the iX should be worth. Until that happens, I will continue to drive it, look back at it every time I walk away, and spend stupid money to keep it running. For me, only. My wife tolerates that even if she
thinks I'm nuts.

[ForcedFirebird]

I said return on investment because of 3yrs of loyal service with fluid changes and a $80 fan clutch for $3500 is a good investment even after 2 more years of fun and reliability. Driven it quarter way cross country in it.

[OnTheFence]

I would not go into an E30 expecting any return. In fact, the owner of one E30 I saw is going to take a bath. Paid $1000, and put in about $4000 of just parts (not labor). He;s trying to sell it to me for $1750. That's almost a total loss on all the work he did to me. Heartbreaking. There is almost no upside to the ROI on a car that has almost no collector value, yet. I view this as purely a leisure expense.

Again, I'm not sure of my point. But, it still feels weird calling a nice looking and driving car overpriced at $3000. Imagine what sort of Jap car you get for $3k? 1995 Camry with 196k ? Ugh.

[Bimmernovice]

Bought a 1988 325iS for $450 with cold A/C. Bad auto transmission and driver's side rear quarter panel has a dent the size of a basketball. Replaced the transmission with a rebuilt one from a donor car plus shop installation for $450. Had a professional body repairman fix the dent for another $450. Pick N Pull find of shadow line trim from a 91 318iS. Sold it to a guy who flew down from Seattle, WA. for $2350. That's what I call a good return on investment.

[Stroke5]

Again, I'm not sure of my point. But, it still feels weird calling a nice looking and driving car overpriced at $3000. Imagine what sort of Jap car you get for $3k? 1995 Camry with 196k ? Ugh.

I don't think this is really all that unusual. Given the realities of the market, it's not at all unreasonable to expect a lot for not much. There's a history of low, low values on fine cars that are beyond the interest of those who can & will buy them new. This has long been a factor in the Jag market, the Mercedes market, etc. I happen to think BMW is hands down the best value on a car, period - new or old. You can buy more prestigious, more expensive cars, but there just isn't much out there that gives you more bang for your buck than a BMW - most especially the older ones that have been tossed by those who want new.

The perception (or reality for those who depend on mechanics) that they're too expensive to maintain works to diminish the market to those who know better, & we who know better benefit - so dive in there with us & take advantage. I'd just say that you're best off to get the best price you can up front, because you WILL be putting some cash into it.

What I'm doing is on the spendy side @ $7500 in a year, others are in for much, much less than that. Even broken down into months what I'm doing is not an easily coughed-up $625 per, but it is an investment that returns every time I drive the car ... & I'm pretty much done with the spending. Now it starts putting the money back where it came from.

I put a little post-purchase money into the e21 too, but I bought it cheap to begin with & it did me proud for 11 years. Disregarding consumables like insurance, fuel, oil, tires, etc - what you could call my capital investment in the e21 broke down to less than $1 per day over the time that I owned the car, & around fifty cents per day if we factor in what I sold it for.

Fifty cents a day for a damn nice, fun car that makes me grin - I'll have to keep the e30 for 20 years to do that again, but I'm fine with that - np. There's no reason at all for you not to enjoy the same trip.

[red88ix]

[


Fifty cents a day for a damn nice, fun car that makes me grin - I'll have to keep the e30 for 20 years to do that again, but I'm fine with that - np. There's no reason at all for you not to enjoy the same trip.[/QUOTE]

Wish I had said that. Looked at that way old BMW's return plenty on what we put in them. I'm probably closer to $2.50 per day since buying the iX in 2003, but that includes a paint job and a new interior which were not really necessary. And if I had stayed off the autocross track the total would be a good deal lower. Even my wife who is generally very practical approves. She tells her friends that at least I'm not on the golf course and the car makes a better mistress than one with boobs. She also insists that the car has made me easier to live with and she knows that even just rubbing on it (It IS my mistress) makes me happy. So add free marriage counseling and mental health benefits to the ways these cars can pay you back.

[Rapisardias]

Until that happens, I will continue to drive it, look back at it every time I walk away, and spend stupid money to keep it running. For me, only.

Exactly the way I feel! I can't ever see myself selling mine even for $10000. For me an E30 isn't an investment, it is a way of life I'm sure most of you will agree

[D. Hitchcock]

Exactly the way I feel! I can't ever see myself selling mine even for $10000. For me an E30 isn't an investment, it is a way of life I'm sure most of you will agree

A friend of the e30 is a friend o' mine.

[OnTheFence]

This didn't even get a bid at $2900. Wow.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/_W0QQ...#ht_922wt_1165

[D. Hitchcock]

That's too much money for an eta with a slushbox and 150k on the clock, to me anyhow.

[samiam3356]

My 1st car was a 70 Chevelle SS with a 396. Black with white racing stripes. We bought it out from under a guy from NY for $3,000. Paid $500 more than him while he went to get a trailor and come back in a couple days. My dad and I rebuilt it from the ground up and thats were I go a passion for tinkering with cars. It wasn't until I drove a BMW that I gained a new respect cornering and braking. Before that, it was all about how fast you could make it down a 1/4 mile strip.

[ForcedFirebird]

That's too much money for an eta with a slushbox and 150k on the clock, to me anyhow.

This.

It needs paint, look at all the pics of the dings/fading etc. It's a sedan, mine is an 86 325es so it got all the same stuff as the "is" except the diff is 2.93lsd instead of 3.73. Put the "i" top end and ecu in an eta, it suddenly becomes far more fun to drive

[strad]

The `vert is absolutely essential to laying down a good base tan before you go out in the boat ...

(I'm here to help, man)

hehe, she wants me to put a bimini top on a stars and stripes Mastercraft! To me, that's like putting a big wing on the back of an E30 lol.

[my1stE30]

That's too much money for an eta with a slushbox and 150k on the clock, to me anyhow.

Mr. Hitchcock... if you look at the title of the ad and in the pics, you will see that the 325e clearly has a 5-sp manual transmission ...

[terrafirma]

I love my little car and she's my daily driver. As I've mentioned previously, I leased an '88 325ix back in '88 and it had a list price back then of around $32,000. Best new car I ever drove. I turned the car in at 60,000 and it was just getting broken in. When I picked up my '87 with 123,000 on it this May, I probably paid what most of the people here would consider "too much," but the POs had kept the car in stellar condition and I had all the records to prove it. I didn't feel like haggling $300-$500 for what I knew was a great car. The best part is when I drive it seeing the smiles on people's faces and getting thumbs up's from fellow Bimmer owners. You just can't put a price on that.

[99r6]

Comparing price of a car now to back then?
You sound like an old guy that always says:

"$1.50 for a bottle of coke?!?! I used to get those for 5 cents back when I was younger!!"

" Yeah, and you used to get paid a dollar an hour too. "

Im just jerkin your chain OP

[red88ix]

I love my little car and she's my daily driver. As I've mentioned previously, I leased an '88 325ix back in '88 and it had a list price back then of around $32,000. Best new car I ever drove. I turned the car in at 60,000 and it was just getting broken in. When I picked up my '87 with 123,000 on it this May, I probably paid what most of the people here would consider "too much," but the POs had kept the car in stellar condition and I had all the records to prove it. I didn't feel like haggling $300-$500 for what I knew was a great car. The best part is when I drive it seeing the smiles on people's faces and getting thumbs up's from fellow Bimmer owners. You just can't put a price on that.

I didn't have a new iX but the Flaming Slug still runs and drives like new and it is absolutely the most fun to drive of anything I've owned. It actually had a sticker price of just under $34K so it's a wonder anyone bought one. As with your 87 it came with complete records, $28,000 in receipts for work done, tires, brakes, every oil change. Did I haggle with the seller? Not a chance. There are constant threads here titled "How much should I pay or What's it worth? And in just about every case the most popular answer is some form "as little as possible" or "$3500 is stupid, I got a better one for $600 (and it had an unopened Beatles White Album in the trunk)" or "You should low ball him".
It just doesn't make any sense to me that after searching for a car (or any other major purchase) anyone would risk losing the deal over a few bucks. Believe me, and yes, I am an old guy, the price of old BMW's is no more signicant than those nickel cokes....I really miss those and the 12 cent burgers.
But you WILL remember the one that got away and it will bother you for years.

[KI4UJO]

I didn't have a new iX but the Flaming Slug still runs and drives like new and it is absolutely the most fun to drive of anything I've owned. It actually had a sticker price of just under $34K so it's a wonder anyone bought one. As with your 87 it came with complete records, $28,000 in receipts for work done, tires, brakes, every oil change. Did I haggle with the seller? Not a chance. There are constant threads here titled "How much should I pay or What's it worth? And in just about every case the most popular answer is some form "as little as possible" or "$3500 is stupid, I got a better one for $600 (and it had an unopened Beatles White Album in the trunk)" or "You should low ball him".
It just doesn't make any sense to me that after searching for a car (or any other major purchase) anyone would risk losing the deal over a few bucks. Believe me, and yes, I am an old guy, the price of old BMW's is no more signicant than those nickel cokes....I really miss those and the 12 cent burgers.
But you WILL remember the one that got away and it will bother you for years.

red88ix, you're right about the one got away. They always bother you for years after. In my case, it is a 85 Z28 that was a rare factory 5 speed car. Needed brake work and a paintjob. Sold for $567. Depressing even to post about.