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Thread: Where to source 5V for MAP sensor?

  1. #1
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    Where to source 5V for MAP sensor?

    I bought a GNX's map sensor (3 bar) to use it with LM-1 (wide band monitor with data logging capability). It needs to be powered by constant 5v...

    I can't think of any reliable 5v source that I can tap into...
    Does anyone know where I can source it in the engine bay?

    Paul mentioned TPS power line...since my car is drive by wire, I don't know where TPS is...

    Anyone? Help?
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  2. #2
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    Sean, I believe the crankshaft positon sensor runs off 5 v , If I remember correctly, at least on the E36 I believe it does.
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  3. #3
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    Thanks, Marco

    I blew my first Camshaft Position Sensor at 14000 miles...Not sure if sourcing any current out of that line will be a good idea for my car though...but if nothing else, definitely an option.

    Maybe there is a line out of fuse box? Any relay perhaps...that I can tap into...?

    Thanks
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  4. #4
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    Sean, Camshaft sensor or crankshaft sensor?
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  5. #5
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    Recovering Boost Junkie...
    Originally posted by marc1119
    Sean, Camshaft sensor or crankshaft sensor?
    Oh...crankshaft sensor! I mean camshaft sensor...
    Cool, where is that crankshaft sensor?
    Is there a fuse for that sensor that I can tap into?
    If not, is there a good place to tap this line?

    Thanks,
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  6. #6
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    If memory serves me correctly , on E36 the crankshaft circuit piggybacks the vanos circuit that also used 5v. The crankshaft sensor is located drivers (L) rear by dipstick.
    If your S54 is the same I do not know, I have no Bentley on your car. But if it were the same, you could find the crankshaft sensor harness from following the crankshaft sensor or maybe just testing your vanos circuit and seeing if that is 5v.
    I am just winging it here on your car. I am just hoping they are similar. your car and my E36.
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  7. #7
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    Marco, I will try to find a crankshaft sensor...

    By the way, I just tested the map sensor in open air. It is reading 3.4 v. Is that normal in open air? Since it is a 3 bar sensor, 3.4 v out of 5 v in open air looks high...? I want to make sure map sensor is okay before I start wiring things up...
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  8. #8
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    I'm no electrical genious, but personally I wouldn't draw current from a source which powers "delicate" measuring equipment (sensors). Not sure if it has any affect on anything, but that's just me.

    There has to be another source... look at a Bentley, there are wiring diagrams for everything... I'm sure you could find something interesting to get voltage from.

    If I'm wrong, then I'd just tap the nearest sensor to where you mount your MAP sensor.

    Boris

  9. #9
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    Perfect Answer... Just think.. what sensor do we have that some people are always wondering does it do any good? the Tracs control TB sensor Id have no problem using That to power the map
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  10. #10
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    Paul, I am not even sure he has a traction control throttle body on his car.
    The reason I suggested that sensor that I did is because when BMW did that crankshaft sensor TSB, it came with a sensor and a harness. The harness was a plug and play tap from the vanos .
    SO I figure if BMW did it , I figured it must be OK.

    Ps And forgive me if I am feeling stupid tonite, but what but a sensor runs on 5v?
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  11. #11
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    Personally, I wouldn't power it from the camshaft or crankshaft sensors. I'd use the throttle position sensor (find it at the engine, or the +5v feed wire in the harness).

    And your 3.4v @ free-air reading depends on how much voltage you powered the sensor with. Did you use a +5v or a +12v supply (sounds like +12v to me).
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  12. #12
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    Nick G , just because I am totally unfamiliar with Drive By wire, It indeed uses a TPS? Sean says he cannot find it, does that mean he does not have one or he cannot find it?

    I too first had suggested after talking with Paul E on his wideband , which wire for him to tap on E36 TPS.I just thought perhaps Sean did not have one, thus I suggested another sensor. I hope that was not bad advice I gave him.
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  13. #13
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    Originally posted by NickG
    Personally, I wouldn't power it from the camshaft or crankshaft sensors. I'd use the throttle position sensor (find it at the engine, or the +5v feed wire in the harness).

    And your 3.4v @ free-air reading depends on how much voltage you powered the sensor with. Did you use a +5v or a +12v supply (sounds like +12v to me).
    Nick,
    Fortunately I was able to find a adaptor that converts 120v AC to 5v DC. So the voltage was correct (checked with voltmeter before testing the MAP sensor.

    I found this from another website,

    MAP sensor output based on altitude (Ignition "ON" and engine stopped) Altitude Voltage Range
    Meters Feet --------------
    Below 305 Below 1000 3.8--5.5V
    305--610 1000--2000 3.6--5.3V
    610--914 2000-3000 3.5--5.1V
    914--1219 3000--4000 3.3--5.0V
    1219--1524 4000--5000 3.2--4.8V
    1524--1829 5000--6000 3.0--4.6V
    1829--2133 6000--7000 2.9--4.5V
    2133--2438 7000--8000 2.8--4.3V
    2438--2743 8000--9000 2.6--4.2V
    2743--3048 9000-10000 2.5--4.0V
    Low altitude = High Pressure = High Voltage

    I think above table is based on 2 bar sensor though...Maybe 3.4 isn't too bad, but not sure. I tried to blow into the nipple to see if the voltage changes, but apparently, I ain't strong enough to make it change the voltage...

    As for the source for 5v...still clueless...I posted a similar thread at bimmerfest and someone suggested me to use 3 terminal voltage regulator. I am thinking there has to be a easier way...? I am going to do some research on voltage regulator though...
    TPS sounds like a good source, but not sure if my car has one to begine with...If it does, not sure where it is...dang this drive by wire thing...
    :
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  14. #14
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    I believe you can buy a gizmo at Radio Shack that can give you various voltages out (including 5 volts) from a 12 V input. Only costs a few bucks. Wire it "hot", so the 12 volts powering it comes on with your ignition, so the 5 volts output for your MAP also comes on with the ignition.

    If you can't find one of these, some local electro-whiz can brew one up easy enough, using a resistor, and a 5 volt zener diode.
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  15. #15
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    Marco, good point about about the drive-by-wire......I missed that.

    But that means there are 2 pedal sensors installed, one of which works off of +5v. Find the +5v feed for that sensor and tap off of it.
    Nick Glantzis
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  16. #16
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    Originally posted by NickG
    Marco, good point about about the drive-by-wire......I missed that.

    But that means there are 2 pedal sensors installed, one of which works off of +5v. Find the +5v feed for that sensor and tap off of it.
    I've been reading the E46M3 training manual. There I found "Throttle Valve Position" potentiometer that is attached to the end of throttle body for S54. According to the manual, "This signal is used by the ECM for a position/plausibility check (closed 0.5v - full open 4.5v)".

    Hmmm...that sounds like throttle position sensor. I found what you mean by 2 pedal sensors that contrl EDR (controls the throttle operation) as well...

    I think I am going to trace this throttle ptentiometer and check the voltage on each wire...Sounds like a good source for 5v. Also it could be my answer to get TPS signal as well...?
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  17. #17
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    Well, I just finished the wiring. I am powering 5v out of TPS sensor power as recommended. While I am at it, I am monitoring the TPS signal as well. 3bar MAP sensor is in and that is being monitored as well. Hew...all that wiring took no less than 4 hours of making it look clean...

    Now, my LM-1 can monitor
    AFR
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  18. #18
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    Sean, I don't know if you're SC installation has an HFM scaler installed or not. So are monitoring the voltage directly from the HFM, or the voltage out of an HFM scaler (if installed)?
    Nick Glantzis
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  19. #19
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    Originally posted by NickG
    Sean, I don't know if you're SC installation has an HFM scaler installed or not. So are monitoring the voltage directly from the HFM, or the voltage out of an HFM scaler (if installed)?
    Nick,
    I am not sure if there is a scaler in my car or not.

    I have a splitsecond voltage calibrator that changes HFM voltage readings before they are fed into ECU though.
    2008 X5 4.8i
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  20. #20
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    Sean, a voltage calibrator is a scaler.
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  21. #21
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    Recovering Boost Junkie...
    Originally posted by marc1119
    Sean, a voltage calibrator is a scaler.
    That case, I surely do.
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  22. #22
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    sean, just curious.. how did you make the hookups at the sensors? Did you install a tap into the signal wires attached to the plugs?
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  23. #23
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    sean, just curious.. how did you make the hookups at the sensors? Did you install a tap into the signal wires attached to the plugs? And, where do you hookup for your ground. I wound up using the nut to which the hood ground strap is attached near the passenger side rear of the hood corner, near the hinge arm.
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    '11 AW 135i ; Sold: '99 White M3 81k mi; Dinan SC kit, 6"/3.48" sc pulleys, Aftercooler: 10.5 psi-367 SAE rwhp/304 rwftlbs @80 degrees ambient (still with OBDII manifold & stock cats); DynoTuning by Nick G (techniquetuning.com); Speed Shop: Imported Cars of Stamford; AA-Aquamist Water Injection, exhaust, clutch; Fikse FM-10s; Koni Suspension; Stealthboxes

    http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a173/boostm3/

  24. #24
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    Recovering Boost Junkie...
    Paul,
    For my car, TPS was at the end of throttle assembly. I left the TPS plug alone. And I tapped wires (it had 5v, Ground, Signal) coming out of the plug. Used 5v feed for MAP sensor power and used Signal wire for TPS signal to LM-1.

    Making it look all clean was a challenge. TPS wires were hidden inside of this plastic tube thing. Inside this tube thing, there were wires that were going to stock injectors. So after I tapped TPS wires, I had to shove in additional wires to this tube thing...
    Hmmm...hopefully I didn't make it sound more confusing. I am sure picture will do a lot better explanation.

    When you have some data logged, please send me a copy (zipped, please), so I can take a look at your tuning.

    Thanks,
    2008 X5 4.8i
    2003 330xi -sold-
    2001 X5 4.4i -sold-
    2001 M5 -sold-
    2001 M Roadster (SCed, Highly modified) -sold-
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  25. #25
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    Recovering Boost Junkie...
    Originally posted by NickG
    Personally, I wouldn't power it from the camshaft or crankshaft sensors. I'd use the throttle position sensor (find it at the engine, or the +5v feed wire in the harness).

    And your 3.4v @ free-air reading depends on how much voltage you powered the sensor with. Did you use a +5v or a +12v supply (sounds like +12v to me).
    It turns out my MAP sensor is 2 bar rated instead of 3 bar. GM dealer I went to had no idea on specifics. After data logging, I realized that it's a 2 bar system. So maybe 3.4 v at free air makes more sense with 2 bar system...

    Paul, are you reading this? If you got your MAP sensor with the same part number, yours will be 2 bar as well.

    Also, if you figure out how to show "relative atmosphere pressure" using LM-1, let me know. Right now, I am displaying voltage and matching values against a table that I have...All setting on LM-1 for PRESSURE seems to be in absolute pressure...
    2008 X5 4.8i
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