A Rare Bird: The E30 Baur

[tomscat1]

Production numbers show that there were about 10,000 E30 Baur TC2s produced in Germany, and about 3,000 + more produced in South Africa under license to Baur. I believe that makes them more rare than the 325ix (about 34,000) as well as the M3. The Baur TC convertible was, of course, eventually superseded by BMW's own convertuble, the 325iC.

As time goes on and the numbers further diminish, that may well make the Baur TC2 a very collectible item. There were also 117, or so, 325ix converted to Baur TC2s. As far as I know, NONE were ever imported to the US. I have a 1989 325ix.... and a 325 iC, as well, and I would LOVE a 325ix Baur!! Talk about rare!!! The Ultimate Snowmobile meets the Ultimate Sunmobile!!! It doesn't get any better than that, IMHO!
So, the question is, where are the E30 Baurs? I know of about a half dozen that appear in here from time to time. There MUST be more out there!

I write this as Bimmerfest East approaches, next weekend August 6 in Aberdeen MD, to be exact. I will be bringing my E21 Baur about 300+ miles to attend, and I would love to get together with other Baur owners regardless of series.
I also do a blog dedicated to Baurs, and I would love to expand it to include the TC2 E30 Baurs here in the US.

http://baurspotting.blogspot.com/

Let's find those Baurs! Baur power!
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en...0262f15966&z=3

http://baurspotting.blogspot.com/201...ut-valley.html

Can we get some Baurs to come out to Bimmerfest East on August 6th? I will be there, and I will buy the beer!

[Tom D]

…..10,000 E30 Baur TC2s produced in Germany, and about 3,000 + more produced in South Africa …….that makes them more rare than the M3.

if this is true, then the E30 Baur would be more rare then the E30 M3. the production number for the M3 was 17K plus for all of the different variations produced.

as far as the the Baur ever reaching a collectable price point, i'm not sure. the M3 in 1988 sold for $36k. it hit a resale low of $8 - 10k before the market started improving. now 23 years later, a nicely presented M3 sells for $25k. i don't foresee the Baurs ever matching that even if there were less units produced.

[tomscat1]

if this is true, then the E30 Baur would be more rare then the E30 M3. the production number for the M3 was 17K plus for all of the different variations produced.

as far as the the Baur ever reaching a collectable price point, i'm not sure. the M3 in 1988 sold for $36k. it hit a resale low of $8 - 10k before the market started improving. now 23 years later, a nicely presented M3 sells for $25k. i don't foresee the Baurs ever matching that even if there were less units produced.

Hi Tom,
I agree that the E30 Baur will not have the attraction of the E30 M3. But the valuation of the M3 is not solely based on it's rarity: it has an esteemed place, not only in the BMW Pantheon of Greatness, but also on the World Stage. It is universally recognized and acclaimed. No question about that.

The Baur, on the other hand, is notable more for its rarity, and for its historical significance: it was a targa cabriolet-style car produced at a time when few manufacturers were making convertibles... because the thinking at the time was that the convertible may be outlawed in many places due to safety considerations. The Baur, of course, has a built-in rollbar.
Then Mazda challenged the conventional wisdom with the Miata convertible, sold millions of them before everyone else realized that convertibles were NOT going to be outlawed!! BMW started making their own around 1987, and the Baur production diminished.
Therein lies its potential value as more of an historical artifact and a rare item. It will never compete price-wise with the M3.

But for those interested in the historical aspects of automotive history, the Baur has a place as a rare and an unusual creation.

The following is from Jeroen J. Baur specialist in The Netherlands:

E30 Baur Production Numbers:
Anyway, it claims that Baur Topcabriolet production for the E21 was 4,595 for ’78-’82. E30 production of the Baur was 10,865 for ’83-’91 plus 3,561 built in South Africa. This seems high to me but the Baur Topcabriolet is shown separately from the factory full cabrio. The book has a photo of the four-door E36 Baur but no production figures since the run probably wasn’t done in 2000.
http://home.comcast.net/~eapoole/sit...4cdefbc6c0c002
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/aa/BMW_Baur_325_TC2_i.jpg


from Jeroen... Baurs in the US thread p. 2

Indeed. The numbers for the TC1 are not known, so here some from the TC2.
14665: totall frames build
10865: cars converted by Baur in Stuttgart.
The rest of the frames (mostly) went to South-Africa. These cars can easily be identified, even if you can't see the stickers "Made in South-Africa" under the bonnet. Then these cars have their frame in the same color as the rest of the body. Cars build in Stuttgart always had a black frame.

[tjmonsen5]

I have one, but it has stupid US bumpers. The guy who originally owned it moved to the US after driving it in Germany for about 3 years. He had the bumpers replaced to US, a catalytic converter installed, and had the speedometer replaced with a MPH gauge. As far as I know, thats all that was changed. It still has the euro cluster, fog switch, check panel and who knows what else. I dont think prices will ever go that high because people either like it or HATE it. I know that at first I wasnt even sure if I liked it. One great thing about it, is that I still have as much trunk space as an E30 coupe!

[Tom D]

fair enough. time will tell.

my point about the price point of the M3, is only that it is now considered to be one of the top 10 BMW collectables and yet it's value is fairly low.

[tomscat1]

I have one, but it has stupid US bumpers. The guy who originally owned it moved to the US after driving it in Germany for about 3 years. He had the bumpers replaced to US, a catalytic converter installed, and had the speedometer replaced with a MPH gauge. As far as I know, thats all that was changed. It still has the euro cluster, fog switch, check panel and who knows what else. I dont think prices will ever go that high because people either like it or HATE it. I know that at first I wasnt even sure if I liked it. One great thing about it, is that I still have as much trunk space as an E30 coupe!

Hi, you have a great example of a rare item! You are one of the few I have seen in here. TC2s occasionally show up at various car shows, but not ofeten, from what I have seen. HarryPR had a pic of one from the Vintage 2010, I believe. Do you know of any others? How many are there in the US? Any idea?

I am adding you here, as a starting point.

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UT...bc619cd247cd43
What is your Baur Number? I am E21 #4154.

Are you registered with stephan at the International Baur Registry in Germany?
http://www.baur-tc2.de/

[davey101]

Wooooo! A baur thread

[tomscat1]

Welcome, Davey! I didnt see you at Wickham Park Manchester this month! We got the only two known E21 New England Baurs together! Afonso from Enfield owns the other one. He also said that there is an E30 Baur in the Manchester CT area... didn't you say that you saw it also? He has seen it.

Here is a link to what you missed!

http://baurspotting.blogspot.com/201...ut-valley.html

And there is more!

http://baurspotting.blogspot.com/201...new-baurs.html

[davey101]

I was actually the very first car at Wickham park that morning. Parked right near Afonso. Had to work at 12 though so I had to leave early
And yes, I have seen an e30 baur floating around in Vernon a few times. Older woman IIRC.

[acolella76]

There is a bronzit Baur I always see at school in the parking deck. Haven't seen the owner once, but it is pristine. Just thought I should mention

[tomscat1]

I was actually the very first car at Wickham park that morning. Parked right near Afonso. Had to work at 12 though so I had to leave early

And yes, I have seen an e30 baur floating around in Vernon a few times. Older woman IIRC.

Davey, I am sorry I missed you. I got there between 11 and 12, so I must have just missed you. I hung out with Afonso for the afternoon, and we had a great time. Nice fella.

Next time, perhaps.

There is a bronzit Baur I always see at school in the parking deck. Haven't seen the owner once, but it is pristine. Just thought I should mention

Thanks very much. I will add it to the map of E30 Baurs.

Addendum: Map updated.
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UT...bc619cd247cd43

[psmura]

I saw one forsale locally a few months back, I believe it was in Rochester, NY. There pretty cool e30's, definetly won't come close to the M3 in value though. If I came across one now id definitely scoop it up over the ix im currently looking at.

[tomscat1]

I saw one forsale locally a few months back, I believe it was in Rochester, NY. There pretty cool e30's, definetly won't come close to the M3 in value though. If I came across one now id definitely scoop it up over the ix im currently looking at.

Thanks, Paully321! Added to to the Google map.

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en...0262f15966&z=3

http://baurspotting.blogspot.com/


Here are a few, including Jeroen's 325ix Baur, and what appears to be a Hartge version, from an old thread in this forum. Anyone know where that one is today?
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1421891

[tjmonsen5]

Im not registered on that Baur website, and i dont know the body number off the top of my head. The car stays at my grandparents house in their extra garage.

Oh one more thing to add about it... its automatic, and an eta. Jeroen told me it was about one of 30 auto eta baurs in the world. Not that it makes it any more desirable though haha. If the trans ever dies, im going to swap in a 5 speed. This trans shifts very well though, so it might be a while before that happens. Plus, the car only gets driven maybe 1000 miles a year, if that.

[e30man88]

My buddy has a Baur that he made an M3 in Dallas, Texas. You can add it if you like.

[tomscat1]

Yes, thank you for posting that. Looks like a beauty. I will be adding it, and I would love to get more info on the car, the conversion, etc. And I wager that I am not the only one who would love to hear about that!

The world, especially the Baur world, awaits this story!

Kudos!

I look forward to hearing more about this car, and in the meantime I have posted the pic in my blog, "Baurspotting", with credit to you, e30man88, for posting it! Baurspotting is read in about 75 countries now.... so this post will be heard around the world!

http://baurspotting.blogspot.com/

Thanks again!

e30man88, can you gather any other info, or perhaps put us in touch with the owner of this beauty?

[e30man88]

Well he had the car since he was in College, he's about 40 now. Then he decided to turn it into a road rally car. So he stripped everything out and dropped an S52 into it. Put M3 fenders on it along with tons of extra goodies. I love this car, it currently has twin turbos as well. Around 750 rwhp, here are all the pictures I have of it. They're a few years old though.

[acolella76]

The bumpers and wheels are pretty unattractive, but I think a twin turbo S52 more than makes up for that!

[Rudolph320i]

There was a Hartge Baur E30 for sale in the next town over from me. I dont know much about them so I don't even know if that was made or if someone made it look like a hartge baur. Had Hartge rims, steering wheel, paint stripe, and a trunk lip. Also definitely had the Baur roof. I don't know what happened to it, but Ive seen it for sale there a few times this summer.

[tomscat1]

Thanks for your post, Rudolph320i! I found your thread when you posted about that car last year, and you included a couple of pics in post #7.

That would be a very interesting vehicle to track down. And it is within striking distance of Bimmerfest East this coming weekend, so I will keep a sharp eye out for it, just in case. I will add it to the google map tomorrow, also.
Here is your original thread on that Baur:

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...highlight=Baur

Thanks again!

Also thank you to e30man88 for the new pics of that Baur M3!!

[Rudolph320i]

no problem, i know of two other baur e30s. One is a project of a guy I know in Williamsport Pa. Another is in my town and the guy drives it. I always see it in the yard with the hood popped when its not being driven, not tip top shape, but far from bad.

[tomscat1]

Great stuff! Any info you can get on those Baurs is greatly appreciated..... Especially the Baur numbers, which is usually on a plate on the driver's side quarter panel under the hood. That will allow us to definitely identify the car and avoid any confusing duplication. If the Baur number can't be readily obtained, then any specific info on the car is helpful.... Color, engine, location, etc.

Here is a link to the International Baur Registry for the Baur TC2 (E30).
http://translate.googleusercontent.c...nP-nog3JTwYHCA

There is a similar site for the TC1 (E21):
http://translate.google.com/translat...om&client=tmpg

Thanks again!

Well he had the car since he was in College, he's about 40 now. Then he decided to turn it into a road rally car. So he stripped everything out and dropped an S52 into it. Put M3 fenders on it along with tons of extra goodies. I love this car, it currently has twin turbos as well. Around 750 rwhp, here are all the pictures I have of it. They're a few years old though.

I have added this Baur and the others mentioned in this thread to the google Map of "Baur Locations Around the World":
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UT...bc619cd247cd43

Keep those cards and letters coming in! I will post them all!

See you all at Bimmerfest East August 6, 2011, Aberdeen, MD.
http://www.bimmerfest.com/bmw-events...est-East-2011/

New post for the E30 TC2 Baurs has been added to my blog, with a link to this google map, showing locations known so far. Additional submissions for other Baurs are welcome! Post them here or email them to me at the address listed in my blog.
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UT...bc619cd247cd43

http://baurspotting.blogspot.com/

[Tom D]

tom, you have a handle on this?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1984-...item3f0d291eb5

[tomscat1]

tom, you have a handle on this?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1984-BMW-323i-E30-BAUR-TC2-CABRIOLET-RARE-EURO-VERSION-/270803738293?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item3f0d291eb5

Wow. No, first I heard of it. Thanks for the heads up! Looks like a pretty good example, quite the ebay listing. I prefer the 5 speed, naturally... but this one almost looks new!

Interestingly, my 1982 323i (E21) Baur was imported to Mission Viejo, CA originally, by Dietel Enterprises.


I really like that 'Museum' ad..... I may make some use of that!

Thanks, Tom! I owe you another one!

[Tom D]

i used to hang at dietel's in the early 80's. bought all my E21 alpine stuff from him.