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Thread: INPA analog values???

  1. #1
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    INPA analog values???

    What is with my total air consumption HLM and needed air i.s. controler??? i should add i just cleaned MAF with CRC MAF cleaner...


    Last edited by purplecty; 06-30-2011 at 07:57 PM.

  2. #2
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    Looks like your MAF

    Have a technical question, don't send me a PM but post it on the board so others can benefit from it!

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    Thanks E!

  4. #4
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    i had similar values, but also had codes from lambda sensor. Changed those and no more ! marks after those values. Engine 3.5l M62. Hmm what those values should be?

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    i have no codes...

  6. #6
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    Looks like either MAF or Lambdas (upstream O2 sensor). Try and read your fuel trim. If both banks are running rich (the O2's should be telling the car to lean out) then your maf is bad. If one O2 value is different than the other, I would suspect O2s.

    Based on your other post of roughness, you're running rich, and that's why your values are jumping all over. Since the values are all over on ALL the cylinders, I would agree with edwin and say it's MAF. It could also be fuel pressure regulator. I just had an oldsmobile aurora 4.0 in here running rich as all hell. Threw the diagnostics on it, looked like both primary O2's were telling the car to lean out 35%. Tried unpluggin the MAF, no change. Unplugged the FPR hose, all back to relatively normal.
    Last edited by nah2323; 07-01-2011 at 07:30 AM.

  7. #7
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    i will post back readings of the lambdas. what range should they be in? remember i told u the idle runs smooth at 600. then after completely warmed up it jumps to 800? this is y i would think o2s maybe since they dont typically kick in till OP. temp correct? ill post a screen shot of lambdas in a little...
    Last edited by purplecty; 07-01-2011 at 09:21 AM.

  8. #8
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    The MAF reading is not that far out, when the engine is warm you should see a reading of 20kg/h. My guess would be that the fuel-pressure regulator has failed or (more likely), the small vacuum pipe that runs from the PCV (called OSV on here) to the regulator (which is on the start of the fuel rail at the back of bank 1) has got squashed or punctured.

    The fact that both the MAF and the 'air needed' value for the Idle Control Valve are both too high and out of range makes me think that the system is compensating for an over-rich mixture.
    Timm..2007 E64 650i Individual Sport..1999 E31 840ci Individual Sport..ex owner of 2000 E38 740..1999 E38 740i V8 M62..1998 E38 735i V8..1993 E32 730i V8..1988 E28 518i


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  9. #9
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    Ok, hope this helps a little more. heres the readings at start up


    at operating temp lambda sensor voltage 1 and 2 would jump between this:


    and this:


    and here's the HLM voltage reading:

  10. #10
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    The fact that the Lambda signals are alternating between over-rich and over-lean means that the system is working correctly and is achieving the correct air/fuel ratio - so all good there. However, you still have the initial readings pointing towards the system compensating for excessive fuel-rail pressure.
    Timm..2007 E64 650i Individual Sport..1999 E31 840ci Individual Sport..ex owner of 2000 E38 740..1999 E38 740i V8 M62..1998 E38 735i V8..1993 E32 730i V8..1988 E28 518i


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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timm View Post
    The fact that the Lambda signals are alternating between over-rich and over-lean means that the system is working correctly and is achieving the correct air/fuel ratio - so all good there. However, you still have the initial readings pointing towards the system compensating for excessive fuel-rail pressure.
    Timm, so MAF or Fuel Pressure Reg. needs to be replaced???

  12. #12
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    Check the vacuum pipe first, this was the problem with my M60:



    The pipe can be found right at the back of the engine, on the LHS (as you face the engine), you have to remove the plastic engine cover and the acoustic cover:



    With the engine at tick-over, pulling the pipe from the regulator or PCV (fitted to the rear of the inlet manifold) should change the tick-over speed. If it doesn't, either the pipe is damaged or the regulator is faulty. If it does make a difference then the fault is elsewhere - possibly the MAF.
    Timm..2007 E64 650i Individual Sport..1999 E31 840ci Individual Sport..ex owner of 2000 E38 740..1999 E38 740i V8 M62..1998 E38 735i V8..1993 E32 730i V8..1988 E28 518i


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  13. #13
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    What Timm says. I can't remember if the rail on the e38 has a fuel pressure test port or not, but alldata should have the service test procedure.

    Your car I'm not sure about, but mine had the fuel pressure regulator built into the fuel filter on the passenger side "frame rail". It looks like timm has it up on the intake manifold.. Check both places..

    The problem your having is very minor (if you even want to call it a problem). However, catching it now could save you some stress/distress in the future

  14. #14
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    thanks for all the help nick. Im going to check all this out aand report back. I believe mine is located as shown in timms pics bbecause its an earlier e38. Would like to have this baby running primo. Thanks to timm as well i will get back and report as soon as i geta chance to check... If it maf ill swap with a used one to see if annything changes. This is if the press reg. Or vac. pipe check out good...

  15. #15
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    can someone put realoem picture of the fuel pressure regulator? what do you mean about tick-over speed?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ptikkala View Post
    can someone put realoem picture of the fuel pressure regulator? what do you mean about tick-over speed?
    Search it yourself.. Use the last 7 of your vin to tell you which version you have..

  17. #17
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    where is my fuel pressure regulator?
    http://realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?...26&hg=13&fg=10
    i searched through my vin on realoem.com but cannot find it as timm described. am i missing something here? it doesnt seem to be connected to OSV vaccum pipe like in timms pic.. the pipe runs to a line that i believe goes under the car. can someone give me some info...?? is it on drivers side?
    Last edited by purplecty; 07-05-2011 at 06:54 PM.

  18. #18
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    #3

  19. #19
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    thanx nick i see in photo but cant find it under hood... What is thatt in diavram its connected to? Osv? I cant seem to locate it...

  20. #20
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    Ok, so yesterday i took some new screenshots of my values... hope i can get some more feedback... ok here we go... i drove for about 15-20 min and she sat for a little while. came outside and decided to take a look at my values. this is what i first saw...


    notice the Total Air Consumption HLM is in range at the moment unlike in my first post. Needed air i.s. controler is still out of range but seems to be very close to the total air consumption. notice the idle at 590rpm. engine was running very smooth.


    now total air consumption is still in range and even lower and needed air is still out of range but a little lower still staying around the same as the total air consumption also idle raised a bit to 610rpm

    and just another shot of if going even lower as it was running for a little while...

    i am still getting these horrible readings and what is up with cylinder 4? Very HIGH!!!

    then all of the sudden i hear the engine idle raise up and it sounds like its under some sort of load but im sitting starring at laptop under the hood and got these new analog values.. notice the idle jumped up to 790 and look, all of the sudden the total air consumption is out of range now as well as the needed air but they are still pretty synced with each other.

    and here's the roughness after the idle raised. Cylinder 4 still high, but not as high as before. i thought it was going to jump out of range before when it was in the 900s...
    if this gives anybody anymore ideas of what is going on with my engine let me know... i hooked up to my buddys 00 sport pkg and his readings were like icemans (http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1674356). all very LOW and his was running really nice... i installed for him the VW MAF about a month or 2 ago because he was having MAF prob. codes/rough idle(rpms hunting), which fixed his problems. and he also just had his timing chains and guides done because the guide broke and sucked the chain under... luckily he got to it before it snapped... but anyways his runs great and gets readings from around 0 to maybe 30-MAX, not even on all cylinders... i know i do have a minor oil leak (not really loosing much oil-very light) which is possibly coming from upper timing chain cover gasket but will that allow oil into my spark plugs? i had VCGs done. don't remember the idle jumping up like this before but who knows maybe it did... it pretty much does this when i start my car and gets warmed up,when it has this idle raise it also sounds like there is is an intermittent howling sound coming from engine that goes in and out but is very hard to hear for others but i sure hear it. i have a sensitive ear to engine noises. When driving, it stays around 600rpm at stop lights always... she runs great but on cold starts i can feel her shake slightly. i was sent wrong used MAF it was from a 528 and not compatible with mine. Im still waiting on another 1 to test it out...
    Last edited by purplecty; 07-12-2011 at 08:07 PM.

  21. #21
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    Id look after the MAF swap.
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  22. #22
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    Agree with Ice. Something FREE to consider, try swapping the coil from cylinder 4 to another cylinder. If the high readings are on the new cylinder, your coil could be tired. If it's still on 4, could be a variety of things.

  23. #23
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    Start with the MAF and check the plug/coil boot and see how that turns out.

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  24. #24
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    ok so i havent gotten the maf yet... Can i diagnose mine by unplugging it while running to see if it will run smoother and less shakey at idle?

  25. #25
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    Did you figure what the problem was? I have simular INPA readings and symptoms on my 523.

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