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Thread: Upgrading the E34 Stereo Tutorial

  1. #1
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    Upgrading the E34 Stereo Tutorial

    This question seems to come up from time to time and a lot of good information is shared but no attempt is made to explain some of the technical details to those of us that are not heavily into audio. The most recent thread was GarrettSR5 and I don't think he got the exact information he was looking for. I am going to paraphrase his question. The basic idea was, "What speakers are available to upgrade the OEM speakers without cutting holes, fabricating enclosures, or installing new amplifiers?" The short answer is, "None at the moment." I intend to explain why this is so by starting with the basics and working my way up to describing upgrades that are possible.

    A vendor on this forum used to sell upgrade speakers that were direct bolt-ins but I don't think they are listed on his web site now. They were also very expensive for what you got. There are a lot of better speaker choices out there but none are compatible with the stock BMW E34 stereo amplifier. Putting better quality speakers in our cars is going to involve some custom fabrication and it is going to involve replacing the stock amplifier. I intend to describe my path to upgrading the speakers and amplifier in a future post. For now, I want to stick to what is possible without installing an aftermarket head unit and without replacing the stock speakers.

    The main weakness in the stock E34 stereo is in the head unit and the rear mounted amplifier. The head unit has a high frequency response that rolls off way before our ears do. (Unless you are an old fart like me. ) BMW supposedly did this to reduce noise in the system. I got this information from a post on an old BMW bulletin board by an engineer that worked for BMW NA in the 1990's. He went on to describe how the high frequency response on the later C43 and CD43 head units was much improved compared to the OEM E34 head unit. I have not installed a CD43 in my touring but I have one in my E36 vert and I can confirm it does sound much better than the C33 or C43 units. The down side to the CD43 is that it will not control the E34 CD changer. This is a small price to pay for the improvement in sound. Once you upgrade to the CD43, there are options out there to install an aux input for MP3 and/or iPod music sources.

    Even if you don't want to replace the stock head unit with a CD43, you can get a significant improvement in sound quality by replacing the rear-mounted amplifier with a better amp and active crossover filters. Understanding why, requires learning a little about how speakers work and what a crossover filter is. The small Nokia woofers in the E34 kick panel are very limited in the range of frequencies they can reproduce. I have not measured one but I expect it is only good for about 70 Hz to 800 Hz when you take into account its low mounting position and the fact that if fires into our feet. That means it is handling primarily mid-bass frequencies. The 2" midrange speaker in the dash is probably good over the range of 500 Hz to 5000 Hz. This covers the frequencies that humans are most sensitive to so this little speaker is doing some heavy lifting in terms of sound quality or lack of it. Low frequencies below 200 Hz have to be prevented from going to this speaker or the sound will become muddy and distorted. The tweeters mounted in the door sail panels are probably good from 5000 Hz up to at least 15,000 Hz. This is as high as most of us can likely hear. The older you get, the more you lose the ability to hear high frequencies clearly.

    The signal from the amplifier has to split up into the correct frequency ranges for each speaker. That is the function of a crossover filter. There are numerous tutorials on the web describing all aspects of crossover filter design. I don't want to attempt to reinvent the wheel so here are some links to sites with good technical descriptions:

    http://www.diyaudioandvideo.com/FAQ/Crossover/

    http://jimmyauw.com/2006/07/13/activ...ver-explained/

    http://www.passivecrossovers.com/index.htm

    The short summary of what is wrong with stock E34 amplifiers is in the crossover filters. The early amps before 1994, have passive crossover filters made with inductors, resistors and capacitors. These components introduce resistance and loss of signal into the path between the amp and the speaker. They degrade the potential for the speakers to sound their best. In the case of the 2" midrange, they probably do not filter out enough of the low frequency information to enable them to sound their best. A steeper roll off of the low frequencies will clean up the sound of the midrange. In addition, the capacitors in these passive filters are aluminum electrolytic designs that do not age well. 15-20 year old electrolytic caps are sure to have changed in a negative way and probably dull the high frequency response of the midrange and tweeter. Mid to High performance crossover filters typically use capacitors made from polypropylene. It is much more precise and does not suffer from the aging problems inherent in aluminum electrolytic caps. I suppose the lowest buck upgrade path would be to replace the electrolytic caps in the early factory amps with polypro caps but I am aiming a little higher.

    First, a word about the 94-95 E34 amplifiers. They have active crossover filters which does clean up the sound a bit. The stock stereo in my 95 touring does sound cleaner, with better high frequency response than the stock one did in my 89 535i. The problem with these amps is that they are still way underpowered compared to modern equipment and they are probably using aluminum electrolytic caps in the signal path even though they have active filters. The factory speakers can sound a lot better with an upgraded amplifier.

    The fact that the OEM amplifiers have crossover filters built in is what makes it so difficult to simply install better quality speakers in the stock locations and keep the OEM amp. The filters are matched to the stock speakers. The likelihood that these filters will be suitable for any aftermarket speakers is just about zero. That is why purchasing new speakers means you also need to purchase a new amp.

    There are big benefits to installing higher power amplifiers with active crossover filters. Active filters use low power electronic devices to perform the filtering function before the signal is amplified and sent to the speakers. This is usually done with circuit devices called operational amplifiers or op amps, resistors and capacitors. The large, lossy inductors used in passive filters are eliminated. The filters do not introduce any loss into the signal path and they can be designed with much steeper roll offs the keep the low frequencies out of the midrange driver. The filters and amplifier gain can also be adjusted to make it possible to install aftermarket speakers if you want to eventually replace the OEM speakers. I am not going there yet but I like the flexibility that this approach gives me.

    I would like to put in a plug for Attack Eagle here. He is currently selling an ADS Power Plate amplifier and Precision Power active filter on the E34 classifieds that are perfect for the upgrade path I am describing. This is very high quality equipment from what many think was the golden age of mobile audio. It is a steal at his asking price of $150 + shipping.

    You can't buy just any old amplifier and external crossover filter to make this work. You need an active crossover with what is called a bandpass response for the midrange. For the front speakers in the E34, you need 2 channels of amplification with a low pass filter for the kick panel mid-woofers, 2 channels with a bandpass filter for the 2" midranges in the dash, and 2 channels with a high pass filter for the tweeters. If you can find an amplifier with 6 channels and a band pass filter for 2 of the channels, you can eliminate the external active crossover filter. Soundstream makes one, the Stealth STL620.6. Here is a link :

    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...=ATVPDKIKX0DER

    I think JL Audio also makes an amp with a bandpass filter built in but this has become a rare feature in today's market. Another valid path is to buy an external crossover with a band pass filter and pick up a quality used 6 channel amplifier. (That is what AE is offering and it is a very good deal.) Let's assume someone on this forum buys his equipment. What other options are out there? I went looking for active filters with band pass capability and only found one that is a current product and priced low enough for experimentation. It is a Lanzar OPTIX10 Optidrive 10 Channel Active Crossover Network. Here is a link:

    http://www.amazon.com/Lanzar-OPTIX10...8103039&sr=1-1

    I have ordered one and I am going to write a DIY describing how to install this with a decent used amplifier to upgrade the front speaker sound in our cars using the stock speakers. The goal is to show how to do this without spending big bucks. It will be at least 2-3 weeks before I get this done and written up. The crossover is not here yet and I have some family functions coming up that will slow down progress. I have not decided yet whether to cut the factory stereo harness in the back to install this equipment or gut the OEM amplifier and use its connectors. The advantage of the second approach is that the system can always be returned to stock by buying a used amp. I am not sure the extra labor is worth it on a vehicle this old with audio equipment that will have limited resale value. The upgrade equipment will not be more than $250. I am thinking it makes more sense to just leave it installed when I sell my touring if that day ever comes.
    Last edited by Mark185; 06-14-2011 at 10:30 PM.

  2. #2
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    So if somone were to buy AE's gear and the 10 chanell xover network they would still need another four channel amp to power the rear speakers?

    Or could you run them on the same channel as the dash mids and make that like a dual stereo channel? or would that sound strange?

    I'd love to be able to use my KEF Uni-Q's. have a pair of 6x9's and a pair of 6" rounds but short of serious body panel cutting they'll have to collect some more dust ..

    I do have an old Audison VR404 amp.. could I use two amps with that 10 channel network?
    Last edited by jehu; 06-14-2011 at 10:44 PM.

  3. #3
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    Were is the stock amp located


    95 540iA Bilsteins & H&R's, DUDMD Chipped, Full Magnaflow Exhaust, Powerflex Bushings, M-Pars, Euro Tails, Corners, & Side markers, 10" Kicker CVR & Kicker 400 Amp, ....More to Come!

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    The CD43 will make your existing speakers sound brand new. I'd start with that. The Dice Adapter works fine, and even pulls my tunes from my iphone. Problem is just that I can't select the tunes individually. I made a couple playlists and that works ok for me.

    I think an ipod adaptor that allows you select from the device itself is the best, as we all have several ipods now. I know I have 3 shuffles, a early 30gb ipod and a full iphone 3.

    But my 1995 that came with the business radio, CD player, and 10 speakers still has the original speakers that sound great. There is no rear amp now and the CD43 drives it all just fine. I keep at best 1, 2 cds in the car.

    The BEST radio ever for the E34 is the Becker, but it's only good in Europe. The only Becker made for US goes in Ferrari's and they wont sell me one, i've already asked.

    good post though

  5. #5
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    The ads has band pass on either 2 or 4 of the channels.

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    This was really helpful and I understand more about the audio now... I've gotta put this stuff on my "to do" list (at the bottom)

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by jehu View Post
    So if somone were to buy AE's gear and the 10 chanell xover network they would still need another four channel amp to power the rear speakers?

    Or could you run them on the same channel as the dash mids and make that like a dual stereo channel? or would that sound strange?

    I'd love to be able to use my KEF Uni-Q's. have a pair of 6x9's and a pair of 6" rounds but short of serious body panel cutting they'll have to collect some more dust ..

    I do have an old Audison VR404 amp.. could I use two amps with that 10 channel network?
    AE's gear will handle only the front speakers but that is all you need to do unless you want sound for back seat passengers and don't care about changing the quality of the front seat sound. Yes, you would need a 4 channel amp for the rear speakers if you want to keep them in the system.

    You could not share channels with the in dash mids. The rear speakers are only a mid-woofer and a tweeter IIRC. Even if they were 3 way designs like the front, you could not use the same amp channels for front and rear. It would sound strange and probably burn up the amplifier's circuits because the resistance (or impedance) of the two speakers connected in parallel might be too low. Low impedance will cause the amp to put out too much current and overheat it output circuits.

    It is possible to get 6" round drivers into the kick panel locations up front. It involves some custom fabrication but no panel cutting. I did it in my 89 535i.

    Yes you could use two amps with the Lanzar crossover. The only issues are mounting space and being careful with signal and ground wiring for both amps to avoid ground loops and alternator noise. It is easier with one amp but very doable with two. I am not familiar with that Audison model but their equipment has a good reputation in general.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elekta View Post
    But my 1995 that came with the business radio, CD player, and 10 speakers still has the original speakers that sound great. There is no rear amp now and the CD43 drives it all just fine.
    I don't understand how the CD43 could drive the speakers directly without the rear amplifier. You still need to split the signal into 3 bands with crossover filters and the only ways possible are to use the factory amp, bypass an early model factory amp and use its passive filters, or replace the factory amp as I am about to do. Is it possible that your CD changer was removed and that is what you thought was the amplifier? The amp is behind the panel the CD changer mounts to in the body cavity for the rear 1/4 panel. It is not normally visible when you pop off he rear carpeted side panel.

  9. #9
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    Interesting. The Low end on those old KEF's was dynamite..they are a Bi-Wired Axially Mounted two way set up. They come with their own crossover boxes though. If I found the manner to fit them in the kick panels things might get weird if the six channel amp was much higher powered than the other..

    maybe I am just conditioned to think I'd miss the rears but whenever I adjust the fader to just the front the sound suffers in my opinion.

    I don't normally carry rear seated passengers but would want as full and equally balanced sound distribution as I think the present gives albeit with better amping and frequency handling.

    I'll study up on my options and the means of grounding such a set up..
    Last edited by jehu; 06-15-2011 at 12:46 AM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark185 View Post
    AE's gear will handle only the front speakers but that is all you need to do unless you want sound for back seat passengers and don't care about changing the quality of the front seat sound. Yes, you would need a 4 channel amp for the rear speakers if you want to keep them in the system.

    You could not share channels with the in dash mids. The rear speakers are only a mid-woofer and a tweeter IIRC. Even if they were 3 way designs like the front, you could not use the same amp channels for front and rear. It would sound strange and probably burn up the amplifier's circuits because the resistance (or impedance) of the two speakers connected in parallel might be too low. Low impedance will cause the amp to put out too much current and overheat it output circuits.

    It is possible to get 6" round drivers into the kick panel locations up front. It involves some custom fabrication but no panel cutting. I did it in my 89 535i.

    Yes you could use two amps with the Lanzar crossover. The only issues are mounting space and being careful with signal and ground wiring for both amps to avoid ground loops and alternator noise. It is easier with one amp but very doable with two. I am not familiar with that Audison model but their equipment has a good reputation in general.


    My amp would do all 6 fronts without the active x-over, that's why i bought it. however the gains are all tied together when you use a single RCA input. Using the EPX223 first gives you the ability to use 6 channels of input and thus have independent gains for each set of speakers (the supertweets need far less power than the midbasses)
    The alternate way would be to simply use splitters, ie make the one Left front rca output into 3, and ditto for the right. That would also give you independent gains, and with a 4v headunit you'd more range on the gain pots. That was my actual plan in the touring.

    Then you could use the PPI EPX223 for your rear speaker amp + sub amp if keeping rears or only the sub amp.
    You could even use the epx to split the fronts and subs at 80hz if your head didnt have a sub out, then go to a 3 rcas after it, and use the a/d/s/ 6 channel xover for the split. its actually almost right on the OEM xover frequencies. 5k+ 500 hz when I checked using a test track and my old 9835's internal xovers.

    That would be ideal IMO, as you'd get the low pass filtering on the fronts, assuming your headie didn't have that (CD43 for example).
    Basically I'm just throwing it in as a bonus item to provide maximum flexibility to the next lucky owner.
    Last edited by attack eagle; 06-15-2011 at 12:41 AM.

  11. #11
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    Basically:

    factory speakers are not typical mids + tweets, they are a midbass + mid+ plus tweeter.
    They are not all 4ohm either
    So a typical 4 channel amplifier or off the shelf passive xover box wont work.

    Xover frequencies for the fronts are ~500 lowpass midbasses, 500 highpass and 5000 lowpass mids and 5000 highpass at about 6db.

    never measured the rear because I didnt run the tweeters, and eventually dutched the mids.

    Rear mids are exactly the same as the midbasses, so I am betting the midbasses can actually play out to about 5000, and the factory xover is probably the same frequency in the rear.


    as mentioned there really is no true plug n play for the speakers, as they are slightly an oddball size, being about .75" tweeter and about a 2" mid. The midbasses are 4 ohm iirc and the mids are 8, as are the tweeters.

    "car audio" speakers are generally 4ohm, and come in rather standard sizes. Home theatre speakers are generally 8 ohm.
    Thus it is problematic to find a set that will directly replace them.

    The Nokias are rated for 40w but get only about 1/10th of that from the factory amp. Most modern head units of the last 10-15 years have more onboard power than the oem amp does.

    I personally ran my OEM nokias on an 80x4 amp (slightly dialed back), thru the OEM passive x-over network and they did fine

  12. #12
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    The stock 5.25" mids can deff go higher than 800hz easy.... they sound REALLY good with clean power. The biggest issue is the crappy headunit/amp. Also there were different types of tweeters used over the years...some better than others.
    e30 84 340i m6x powered.
    e34 89 535i 5speed - current DD
    e24 89 635csi - maybe a DD?

    e34 93 525i (m50tu) - gone
    e39 540i 6spd m-sport - gone
    e53 x5 4.4l - gone
    e30 89 325i (m20) - gone

  13. #13
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    1. just so eveyone knows the c33 headunit can be wired to have an aux input.
    (a mini jack) http://m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=239069

    2. i know this thread is about the stock system but if you were to put a real sub in the car would that eliminate the need for the 3 way componets up front, mainly the midbase? i never understood why bmw went with the 3 way setup.

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    2: no, because a sub should really never play higher than 60hz. i mean a lot of us DID and still do play them to 80 or 100, but at that point you can localize the sound coming from them.

    I've played the stock front midbass/rear speakers out to 3k all by themselves (I had a spare i used for checking amp outputs) never tried higher since they were unbaffled at the time.

  15. #15
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    ^ that. You WANT as much strong/midbass upfront as possible...not all highs/midrange front and bass+midbass rear...

    STRONG front stage is important, if you care about SQ that is.

    Having said that, a quality 2 way can sound just as good if not better than crappy 3 way.
    e30 84 340i m6x powered.
    e34 89 535i 5speed - current DD
    e24 89 635csi - maybe a DD?

    e34 93 525i (m50tu) - gone
    e39 540i 6spd m-sport - gone
    e53 x5 4.4l - gone
    e30 89 325i (m20) - gone

  16. #16
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    ok so then why are moat aftermarket componets 2 way?

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    Why do they make 2 way and 3 way and even more complicated home audio speakers? It all depends on the design... a 3 way set uses a small midrange speaker closer to the tweeter and the 5" or 6" midbass usually is crossed over lower than it would be in a 2 way since the midrange takes car of the vocal range etc. The tweeter in the 3 way is usually crossed over higher than it is in a 2 way. For example....in a way system the midrange/midbass (one speaker) usually would go as high as 2000-6000hz and the tweeter will do the rest. In the 3 way system a midbass only goes to 300-1000hz (depends on size), a midrange would go higher and take care of the midrange up to 6000 and tweeter go up. Sometimes the tweeter in a 3 way system is smaller, it does not have to cross over as low as in a 2 way because of the dedicated midrange speaker.

    Smaller tweeter = wider sweet spot (usually lower power handing and requirement to cross over higher) vs Bigger tweeter (narrower spot but higher power handing and/or ability to go lower to match the bigger midbass speaker) (typically).

    And simply price... a 2 way component set will cost LESS than a 3 way component set.... oem stereo is made at a specific price point....sometimes very cheap components are used to get a desirable result.

    Some like a single speaker and TL designs, but for most cases all you need is a good two way component set that can play down to 60-80hz and a sub to take care of the rest to have a nice and clean sound. Because of the location of the mids in the kicks, a regular coax speaker will not sound as good as a component set (2 way or 3 way).

    There is lots of work behind crossover design (proper), sometimes simple system is a better way to go vs more speakers if you can do it within the confines of the physical areas where the speakers can be installed.
    Last edited by 84318i; 06-15-2011 at 02:33 AM.
    e30 84 340i m6x powered.
    e34 89 535i 5speed - current DD
    e24 89 635csi - maybe a DD?

    e34 93 525i (m50tu) - gone
    e39 540i 6spd m-sport - gone
    e53 x5 4.4l - gone
    e30 89 325i (m20) - gone

  18. #18
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    ok thanks i have another question is there a way to use the stock headunit with an aftermarket amp? like cut the wires and soder an rca to the end.

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    Thats not how it's usually done, some amps ACCEPT high level input from a stock headunit, and some require adapters to bring the signal down to acceptable levels. The stock deck is not very good, if you are putting an aftermarket amp you may as well upgrade the source of the signal itself, the deck.
    e30 84 340i m6x powered.
    e34 89 535i 5speed - current DD
    e24 89 635csi - maybe a DD?

    e34 93 525i (m50tu) - gone
    e39 540i 6spd m-sport - gone
    e53 x5 4.4l - gone
    e30 89 325i (m20) - gone

  20. #20
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    i was thinking about that but i just dont like the look of most aftermarket headunits. they just dont match the rest of the controlls.
    what are your thoughts on rear fill?

  21. #21
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    Usually that's all I do, good front stage + sub and rear fill (or no rear speakers at all). It does come as a preference though.... I am more into SQ and having as much good sound upfront as possible. If anything you can always FADE the sound away from rear and/or use stock headunit power for rear speakers, to keep the sound stage up front. When you have rear passengers, if you must, you can always fade it more towards equal front/rear. Sub(s) is usually on it's own dedicated pre-out set so it's not affected by the fader..
    e30 84 340i m6x powered.
    e34 89 535i 5speed - current DD
    e24 89 635csi - maybe a DD?

    e34 93 525i (m50tu) - gone
    e39 540i 6spd m-sport - gone
    e53 x5 4.4l - gone
    e30 89 325i (m20) - gone

  22. #22
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    ok again thank you. you have been a big help

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    Also, there is nothing wrong with passive crossovers (inductors/capacitors/resistors), in fact many very high end systems (look at home audio once again) do not use active systems (unless you are talking PA stuff, but then SQ is not the very top priority).

    Active vs Passive system design comes up all the time on home/car audio forums...and it always come down to the same. A good quality passive crossover will not make your speakers sound bad and will not add any audiable noise, and will not make your system lose efficiency that you will notice.

    Quality components = lower resistance coils (meaning higher wire gauge or thicker or foil type is used in very high end crossovers); non electrolytic capacitors (poly or film); non inductive resistors.

    Also, lower component count sometimes = better. It's just some drivers (speakers) can't be crossover over with shallow slopes such as 6db or 12db/octance (simple coil and cap), and instead require more components. That is why crossover design takes work, and each crossover is optimally designed for the selected drivers... driver selection is key.

    Install is also very important.... same components/speakers/amp can sound night and day difference when the same speakers are installed/located in non oem location (custom kicks for example).

    Active systems require more amplifier channels and added complexity.

    After all, car is not the best or optimal environment for audio. At the same time, quality sound system does not have to be complicated or expensive
    Last edited by 84318i; 06-15-2011 at 02:13 AM.
    e30 84 340i m6x powered.
    e34 89 535i 5speed - current DD
    e24 89 635csi - maybe a DD?

    e34 93 525i (m50tu) - gone
    e39 540i 6spd m-sport - gone
    e53 x5 4.4l - gone
    e30 89 325i (m20) - gone

  24. #24
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    wow you read my mind. i was just going to ask about crossovers. do you have anyother advice?

  25. #25
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    When it comes to speakers? Take or make a cd with the songs a) you are very familiar with and heard on a good home system for example or b) look for a test cd. Then go to as many local car audio places and spend some time basically listening to make different speakers

    Narrow down your choices, post what you liked or didn't like and then we can make recommendations or comments.

    Out of consumer market that won't be difficult to find I can suggest to look at the following if you can local dealers to audition.

    from easiest to find to more difficult-
    polk audio db line
    boston acoustic
    infinity reference and/or kappa
    jl audio
    mb quart
    focal
    image dynamics (now discontinued they made one of the best sounding components and subs)
    cdt audio (still alive and kicking)

    image dynamics chameleon (not counting their horn systems) and cdt audio (HD6xxx set) in my experience have been the best sounding car audio components i've ever heard.

    Keep in mind of course the same speakers will sound different in the car, due to the install/location...but at least you can get an idea on how different they sound ...some tweeters are harsh and some are smooth...same with mids etc.
    Last edited by 84318i; 06-15-2011 at 02:24 AM.
    e30 84 340i m6x powered.
    e34 89 535i 5speed - current DD
    e24 89 635csi - maybe a DD?

    e34 93 525i (m50tu) - gone
    e39 540i 6spd m-sport - gone
    e53 x5 4.4l - gone
    e30 89 325i (m20) - gone

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