No Oil Dipstick?

[JSG]

I was talking with a colleague at work and he informed me that the 2011 3 Series I am looking to buy (3.0 engine) does not have an oil dipstick. Can this be true? Not sure if he is kidding but I can not believe that saving a few dollars in costs by eliminating as critical a device as an oil dipstick is something that BMW would even consider. I’ll be going to the dealer in a few weeks and can see for myself but I’m curious if this can possibly be true. And, if it is, does anyone know the pathology behind this kind of malignant thinking?

[Kevlar]

Enthusiats check their oil... normally people don't.

[GunnerNell]

No, your friend is not kidding -- the newer BMWs do not have oil dipsticks. I can't explain the thinking, and it certainly cramps my plans to change the oil with an extractor by sucking the oil out through the dipstick tube.

One checks the oil on my '09 128i by using the computer. There are sensors in the sump, and after getting the oil hot, you just find the right setting on the turn-signal stem, and the little indicator in the dash tells you where your oil level is.

Oh, and guess what else they've eliminated -- a temperature gauge. I miss that, too.

"Malignant thinking." Funny .... and sadly, true.

[JSG]

Thanks. I am laughing and crying at the same time. You rotate your turn signal and that tells you your oil level???? I wonder if they really thought this through before they did it or did they just let some young engineer after smoking wacky weed make this stupid change?

BTW, you're also right about the temp gauge. Charge for the bloody thing but at least make it an option!!!!

[SilverBeam]

The X3 I had didn't have a dip stick. I checked the oil more frequently than I ever did with any car with a dip stick. It isn't an issue. If there is a fault in the system, a light will come on. BMW started making the change back in 2006 and so far, I haven't heard of any issues.

[Kevlar]

The X3 I had didn't have a dip stick. I checked the oil more frequently than I ever did with any car with a dip stick. It isn't an issue. If there is a fault in the system, a light will come on. BMW started making the change back in 2006 and so far, I haven't heard of any issues.

What she said...

[BoldUlysses]

I'm kind of okay with it...and anyone on here who knows me knows I'm a diehard old-schooler / DIYer. There's nothing sacred about the dipstick.

Now, if they decide to eliminate, say, the tach and replace it with an "overrev warning light" or some such, then I'll be up in arms.

[BradR127]

FWIW, many manufactures (not just BMW) have already eliminated the dipstick -- Mercedes-Benz, Audi, and Porsche, just to name a few. And I'm sure there will be many more to follow suit. If you're comparing cars in this class, I'm not sure you're going to be able to find a recent model with a dipstick.

There are lots of debates as to why exactly they are eliminating the dipstick. Some people say it's cost (although that's got to be such a small cut in cost). Some say it's so you don't release oil "fumes" or whatever into the atmosphere so the car is more "green." Some say it's so you don't introduce contaminants/dirt into the system. Some say it's to prevent dumbasses from fiddling with the car and adding the wrong fluids.

Despite all these potential theories, the only official reason the manufacturers give is because "most people nowadays don't even check their oil" and "most people nowadays expect everything to be computerized and automated." Remember that enthusiasts like you find here are a very, very small segment of the population, and the manufacturers aren't likely to cater to that segment.

[BoldUlysses]

Skeptical as to whether cost in a reason. Is it cheaper to add a metal tube and rod to the side of the engine block, or to put a sensor in the sump and program the necessary electronics? My hunch is that it's a wash, at best.

Despite all these potential theories, the only official reason the manufacturers give is because "most people nowadays don't even check their oil" and "most people nowadays expect everything to be computerized and automated." Remember that enthusiasts like you find here are a very, very small segment of the population, and the manufacturers aren't likely to cater to that segment.

Thing is, even for the "enthusiast" segment that supposedly checks their oil more often, it's not a foolproof process. I've heard several stories of guys checking their oil immediately after shutting the car off, when the warm oil was still up in the galleries, thinking it was low, and overfilling it. And dipsticks can be difficult to read, especially when the oil in fresh and clean. So the argument could be made that the sensor eliminates the guesswork for the enthusiast, too.

[BradR127]

Thing is, even for the "enthusiast" segment that supposedly checks their oil more often, it's not a foolproof process. I've heard several stories of guys checking their oil immediately after shutting the car off, when the warm oil was still up in the galleries, thinking it was low, and overfilling it. And dipsticks can be difficult to read, especially when the oil in fresh and clean. So the argument could be made that the sensor eliminates the guesswork for the enthusiast, too.

I absolutely agree. I always choke a little bit when I see someone pull in to pump gas, pop their hood, and check their oil dipstick. Car has been off for maybe a minute at best.... definitely hasn't all drained to the oil pan.

[SilverBeam]

As part of the driving program I used to teach, we would take parents and students to their cars and help them find things under the hood. "Where do you check your oil?" blank faces. "You check it here. Do you know what you are looking for." blank faces. I'd say that 30-50% of parents had no idea how to check the oil, where to put the oil, where the coolant went, etc. It's really quite sad, but that's today's society.

[JSG]

As part of the driving program I used to teach, we would take parents and students to their cars and help them find things under the hood. "Where do you check your oil?" blank faces. "You check it here. Do you know what you are looking for." blank faces. I'd say that 30-50% of parents had no idea how to check the oil, where to put the oil, where the coolant went, etc. It's really quite sad, but that's today's society.

Sadly, you are correct. I'm an old fart and remember when i was in high school and working part-time at a gas station I learned how to gap points. If you did not have a feeler gauge you knew that a paper match book cover would get them (for GM cars anyway) close enough to start and get you where you needed to go. The fact that we have degenerated into a society whereby checking your own oil is too complex for the average "sheep" among us is a sad commentary indeed.

[GunnerNell]

There's nothing sacred about the dipstick.

But for another old fart like me, eliminating the dipstick makes it much harder for me to change the oil. On my '06 325Ci, I was able to suck the oil out through the dipstick tube with the extractor rather than crawling around under a jacked car. With this '09, I'll have to find ramps and a skinny teenager with a torque wrench. Or something. I could say this sucks, but that's the problem -- I can't!

[montaillou]

Skeptical as to whether cost in a reason. Is it cheaper to add a metal tube and rod to the side of the engine block, or to put a sensor in the sump and program the necessary electronics? My hunch is that it's a wash, at best.

Is a tiny bit of plastic and the wiring the same cost as the metal tube and stick? I doubt it. I'm sure the sensor option is much cheaper especially as it's already piggybacking on a system already in place. Also, it allows one to adjust the way the engine layout/design is. I'm sure it's significantly cheaper/convenient to the manufacturers.

[BoldUlysses]

But for another old fart like me, eliminating the dipstick makes it much harder for me to change the oil. On my '06 325Ci, I was able to suck the oil out through the dipstick tube with the extractor rather than crawling around under a jacked car. With this '09, I'll have to find ramps and a skinny teenager with a torque wrench. Or something. I could say this sucks, but that's the problem -- I can't!

True, but I believe you're a member of a tiny minority as far as that method of changing oil is concerned. Not one to question your methods, but how are you sure the end of the extractor tube is at the lowest point in the sump when you insert it through the dipstick tube? Just curious.

Is a tiny bit of plastic and the wiring the same cost as the metal tube and stick? I doubt it. I'm sure the sensor option is much cheaper especially as it's already piggybacking on a system already in place. Also, it allows one to adjust the way the engine layout/design is. I'm sure it's significantly cheaper/convenient to the manufacturers.

Valid points.

[GunnerNell]

True, but I believe you're a member of a tiny minority as far as that method of changing oil is concerned. Not one to question your methods, but how are you sure the end of the extractor tube is at the lowest point in the sump when you insert it through the dipstick tube? Just curious.

When one is as OCD as I am, trust me, I got all the oil outa there by moving the suction tube all around. Every time I changed mine with the extractor, I got a full 7 quarts out and put a full 7 quarts back in without overfilling. But there's another thread on the forum that's all about that subject. I think the consensus is that an extractor gets about as much oil out as the drain method when the car is on ramps. Someone did a test, which ended up with about a teaspoon of old oil left in the sump, I believe, using either method. I could live with that. As noted, however, it isn't an issue any longer with this '09 -- I can use only the drain method.

[Philz BMW]

I was talking with a colleague at work and he informed me that the 2011 3 Series I am looking to buy (3.0 engine) does not have an oil dipstick. Can this be true? Not sure if he is kidding but I can not believe that saving a few dollars in costs by eliminating as critical a device as an oil dipstick is something that BMW would even consider. I’ll be going to the dealer in a few weeks and can see for myself but I’m curious if this can possibly be true. And, if it is, does anyone know the pathology behind this kind of malignant thinking?

So...by that reasoning. We cannot trust the gas gauge, speedometer, tachometer, mileage read out, tripometer....or any other electronic measuring device on the car.

[Beamdrum]

I read somewhere that the reasoning behind not having a dipstick is the magnesium alloy engine blocks. apparently to reduce the risk of cracking. Don't quote me on it, I just remember reading it somewhere.

[mryakan]

Classic case of "who moved my cheese"!

[325bob]

So...by that reasoning. We cannot trust the gas gauge, speedometer, tachometer, mileage read out, tripometer....or any other electronic measuring device on the car.

The defining difference would be that you now need a new engine, instead of being out of gas, or getting a speeding ticket., and as to expense, what about the R&D costs?, and wait a few years for the sensors to shellac up/burn out, etc., another out of warranty trip to the stealer, I've yet to have a defective dipstick in my last 150 cars. Its an age old adage for a reason; Don't fix(redesign) what ain't broke.

[Kevlar]

The defining difference would be that you now need a new engine, instead of being out of gas, or getting a speeding ticket., and as to expense, what about the R&D costs?, and wait a few years for the sensors to shellac up/burn out, etc., another out of warranty trip to the stealer, I've yet to have a defective dipstick in my last 150 cars. Its an age old adage for a reason; Don't fix(redesign) what ain't broke.

With the oil level sensor ... the car can check the oil many more times than you will. The oil level is checked almost drive, versus you checking it every "now-and-then".

[Charlie]

But for another old fart like me, eliminating the dipstick makes it much harder for me to change the oil. On my '06 325Ci, I was able to suck the oil out through the dipstick tube with the extractor rather than crawling around under a jacked car. With this '09, I'll have to find ramps and a skinny teenager with a torque wrench. Or something. I could say this sucks, but that's the problem -- I can't!

Drive up on ramps, unscrew, drain, crack beer. Open up filter cap, swap filter, finish beer, go back underneath, replace plug, torque. Pour oil back in to motor.

15 minutes, voila.

-Charlie

[325bob]

With the oil level sensor ... the car can check the oil many more times than you will. The oil level is checked almost drive, versus you checking it every "now-and-then".

Correct, if all the electrons are working right, but I always know the dipstick is working right, btw, to check for a defective oil level system, they have to drain and refill with the correct amount, and hope the warning stops! LOL

[BoldUlysses]

Correct, if all the electrons are working right, but I always know the dipstick is working right

That's because you know how to use the dipstick properly, and check it regularly. As pointed out above, the vast majority of owners (yes, BMW owners) don't do either of those things.

[mryakan]

Yes I know how to check my oil using a dipstick and yes I did check it on a regular basis (too often in fact), but no I do not miss the dipstick. Now I can check the oil level on a daily basis without even getting out of the car or getting a carcinogen on my hands. And no I am not worried about the sensor failing. The reported cases of sensors failing are so small and the reported cases of engines blowing up due to bad sensors are 0 AFAFIK. There is a higher probability a tree will fall and crush my car than my engine blowing up due to a faulty oil sensor, so I am not losing sleep over it.