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Thread: Kelly Blue Book Values for Z3 M Coupes

  1. #1
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    Kelly Blue Book Values for Z3 M Coupes

    Ever since I've heard about the huge price discrepancies for what KBB has listed for our cars, I've kinda wondered who did these valuations and what factored into their pricing. I'm sure there is some sort of proprietary and complex algorithm that goes into factoring the depreciation and overall value of a used car on the market today.

    That being said, I have a friend at KBB who can probably get the people who do the valuations to re-evaluate the true market value of our cars and publish a more realistic figure on the web. I have provided them a link to Jeremy's CoupeADay site and hopefully based on the figures there, they will be able to reassess a higher value for 99-02 M Coupes.

    The next web push is next Tuesday. Hopefully there is a change. If not it could be b/c of the upcoming holiday schedule so give it a little bit of time.

    Stay tuned....
    '08 M5 Sepang Bronze/Portland - Modded-
    '11 328i M Sport Le Manns Blue/Oyster - wifeymobile
    '02 525i Touring Alpine White/Sand - Getting modded
    '06 Mini Cooper JCW GP#1281 - SOLD
    '10 MiniCooper S Laurel Sport Edition 1/100 - SOLD
    '99 M Coupe Laguna Seca Blue/Black - highly modded SOLD
    '04 4.8is X5 Estoril/Black Alcantara - modded SOLD
    '01 740i Shorty Sport - TiAg/Blk - SOLD
    '98 M3/2 Cosmos - Modded SOLD
    '97 M3/4 Alpine - stock SOLD



  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by JT///M3 View Post
    Hopefully there is a change. If not it could be b/c of the upcoming holiday schedule so give it a little bit of time.

    Stay tuned....
    Or it could be because most people aren't willing to pay that much for the car. Great car but eventually (like the E36 M3 guys) you will have to realize they just aren't worth that much.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by JT///M3 View Post
    Ever since I've heard about the huge price discrepancies for what KBB has listed for our cars, I've kinda wondered who did these valuations and what factored into their pricing. I'm sure there is some sort of proprietary and complex algorithm that goes into factoring the depreciation and overall value of a used car on the market today.

    That being said, I have a friend at KBB who can probably get the people who do the valuations to re-evaluate the true market value of our cars and publish a more realistic figure on the web. I have provided them a link to Jeremy's CoupeADay site and hopefully based on the figures there, they will be able to reassess a higher value for 99-02 M Coupes.

    The next web push is next Tuesday. Hopefully there is a change. If not it could be b/c of the upcoming holiday schedule so give it a little bit of time.

    Stay tuned....
    That'd be sweet! I think maybe you meant Jon's mcoupebuyersguide.com though.
    jeremy [AT] coupecartel [DOT] com

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    Quote Originally Posted by baseball View Post
    Or it could be because most people aren't willing to pay that much for the car. Great car but eventually (like the E36 M3 guys) you will have to realize they just aren't worth that much.
    Sorry to inform you that the E36 M3 and Z3 M Coupe have nothing in common in terms of collectibilty and rarity. I had 2 E36 M3s (coupe and sedan) and I'll tell you right now, those cars are a dime a dozen. When was the last time you saw a Z3 M Coupe on the road randomly?

    The Z3 MC has reached cult status like the E30 M3 and if you haven't noticed, you can't find a decent E30 M3 for less than 15k. You know why? Basic supply and demand. Most chassises are gone now and the people who do own them are keeping them.

    Guess how many Z3 MCs they made? 2900 total. I wager about 1/3 of those are no longer in service (totaled, gone to car heaven) so that leaves roughly 1900 examples.

    They made over 55k E36 M3s from 1995 to 1999. Only a handful of those are actually collectible, mainly the M3 LTW from 1995 and probably a handful of unique colors including the late 99's that were painted Imola Red. Good luck finding one of those forsale.
    '08 M5 Sepang Bronze/Portland - Modded-
    '11 328i M Sport Le Manns Blue/Oyster - wifeymobile
    '02 525i Touring Alpine White/Sand - Getting modded
    '06 Mini Cooper JCW GP#1281 - SOLD
    '10 MiniCooper S Laurel Sport Edition 1/100 - SOLD
    '99 M Coupe Laguna Seca Blue/Black - highly modded SOLD
    '04 4.8is X5 Estoril/Black Alcantara - modded SOLD
    '01 740i Shorty Sport - TiAg/Blk - SOLD
    '98 M3/2 Cosmos - Modded SOLD
    '97 M3/4 Alpine - stock SOLD



  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z3Couper View Post
    That'd be sweet! I think maybe you meant Jon's mcoupebuyersguide.com though.
    Oh shoot, I sent a link to your site. I'll include a link to his site too. Last I checked my friend said the evaluation director hadn't gotten back to her yet, but that was just this afternoon.

    VIVA LA CARTEL!!!!
    '08 M5 Sepang Bronze/Portland - Modded-
    '11 328i M Sport Le Manns Blue/Oyster - wifeymobile
    '02 525i Touring Alpine White/Sand - Getting modded
    '06 Mini Cooper JCW GP#1281 - SOLD
    '10 MiniCooper S Laurel Sport Edition 1/100 - SOLD
    '99 M Coupe Laguna Seca Blue/Black - highly modded SOLD
    '04 4.8is X5 Estoril/Black Alcantara - modded SOLD
    '01 740i Shorty Sport - TiAg/Blk - SOLD
    '98 M3/2 Cosmos - Modded SOLD
    '97 M3/4 Alpine - stock SOLD



  6. #6
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    Quick, change all the prices on mcoupebuyersguide to $60,000! It is the only way for kbb calculate the true price of the mcoupe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by baseball View Post
    Or it could be because most people aren't willing to pay that much for the car. Great car but eventually (like the E36 M3 guys) you will have to realize they just aren't worth that much.
    It's not that we think highly of our cars, go try and find one for KBB or less.

    You can buy a 99 e36 m3 for 5k now, equivalent M Coupe would be at least 15k

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    That would be really cool. Right now KBB is at about 50% of actual sell prices in a lot of cases. I did an article about it a while ago: http://www.mcoupebuyersguide.com/ind...hats-with-kbb/. What really annoyed me is that they made a lot of general market assumptions that are not true at all in the case of the Z3M: convertible is worth more, sunroof is worth more, etc. They also don't seem to have any differentiation in prices for S54 vs S52.

    2002 Steel Gray over Imola Red M Coupe

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by baseball View Post
    Or it could be because most people aren't willing to pay that much for the car. Great car but eventually (like the E36 M3 guys) you will have to realize they just aren't worth that much.

    You like to troll

    u made the same argument in the buy/sell thread for no reason. Your in title to your opinion but please make it a educated one.
    My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world. -- Jack Layton

  10. #10
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    wow, Coupe Cartel in action!

    Does KBB sleep with the fishes if they don't comply? haha


  11. #11
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    Awesome, maybe they will make a typographical error and list KBB at $60k minimum.
    "If the Corvette is a rebellious child of the extended automotive family, the M coupe is the blackest of sheep." - via Car & Driver

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by adonnan View Post
    Awesome, maybe they will make a typographical error and list KBB at $60k minimum.
    that would be an error?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by JT///M3 View Post
    Sorry to inform you that the E36 M3 and Z3 M Coupe have nothing in common in terms of collectibilty and rarity.
    I am going to have to disagree with this statement.

    Have you ever tried to find an E36 M3 in similar condition to our much loved and pristine M Coupes? They are about as rare as the PY M Coupes. They almost don't exist. Basically, when a car gets cheap enough that middle class families can buy one for their 15 year old kid as soon as they get a license, they get trashed and destroyed and disappear from the face of the earth. I looked high and low for a nice E36 M3, and the prices? More than the S52 M Coupes that is for sure. That is if it even comes close to the condition of the Coupes.

    If its not in a condition I would consider, then they are asking 5-8k at best. Lets all be honest, no one here wants to own a car that is valued at 5k. Its past resurrection by then.

    So while there are definitely more E36 M3s out there, there are more E46 M3s than all the M cars made by BMW before the E46 came to market. Probably because it was the first one with an Automatic. (Yes, the salespeople told people it was an automatic, so it was an automatic as far as most idiots were concerned.) I will not be the least bit surprised if the X5 Automatic M sells more M cars than every other M car ever produced.

    Regardless, KBB values are even more off the mark when it comes to E36s and E30s that are in acceptable condition.

    Condition is everything.
    Last edited by mpire; 05-26-2011 at 11:03 AM.

  14. #14
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    I just uploaded to the website what I have in terms of eBay Z3 Coupe prices. This is the same format .csv file that I've previously uploaded for Z3 and Z4 prices. As before, right click link, click "save target as..." and then feed to your local friendly spreadsheet program. There are only 14 entries, but it does give some hint as to what the "bid" and "ask" prices are looking like. I'll try to upload fresh copies of this file when I upload a fresh Z3prices.csv (about every other week).

    http://www.gmdr.com/Z3stuff/z3coupeprices.csv

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    I think we can all agree that kbb is way low on the coupes. I think we can also agree that while some ask reasonable selling prices for MCoupes, others are not so reasonable....this leads to people thinking that all M owners ask too much for their cars. Like mpire says, condition is everything. I've seen a coupe or 2 in the classifieds that are asking top dollar and you can see a ratty interior just from the photos...imagine what it looks like in person.

    KBB simply gives an general price based on a number of factors. I'm sure that enthusiasts with different cars all over probably would say the same thing. Price your car what you think it's worth, and if it sells, then good for you! If it doesn't, lower it.


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    This is a good thing for insurance reasons too. Let's say you total your m coupe and then the insurance company only wants to give you $10k. $10k, you serious? Try finding an M coupe for $10k, can't even find a salvage title one for that. Great news, hopefully it goes through.

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    Look at KBB for a 99 Supra... perfect example... try finding one that even runs ata ll for KBB...

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    Quote Originally Posted by baseball View Post
    Or it could be because most people aren't willing to pay that much for the car. Great car but eventually (like the E36 M3 guys) you will have to realize they just aren't worth that much.
    Agree, I would never pay anywhere near 20K for a S52 powered car. Period.

  19. #19
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    I work very closely with KBB, Black Book, Blue book, Manheim Market Report etc (on a daily basis) and can tell you that on my end NO ONE uses KBB because pricing is out of wack it is not even funny!!! This said it is not too easy to get an accurate estimate on a vehicle and its condition since these companies never see any of them! They take into consideration (and this is part of the equation) how many vehicles were sold in a specific (regional) market whether it is retail, wholesale or trade in. The numbers that most companies get are directly reported from either an auction, auto finance lenders, state amounts on taxes paid for vehicles when registered and/or dealers sold prices (big OR here since dealers sometimes tend to play with sale price reporting for their advantage on taxes paying at the end of the year (it never happens, yeah right)). The other imortant factor in evaluating a vehicle is the model year! These cars fall into a category that is considered limbo because of when they were built (99-02). If these vehicles were considered classics (different states require them to be anywhere from 13-25 years of age to fall into that category) then you would see the evaluation change! Another HUGE HUGE HUGE factor is big corporations don't know what they have in inventory...ie.. to them a Z3 is a Z3 and not very many people pay attention to the actual model specific/options offered on the vehicle which KILLS the value of our cars. This is because KBB and all the other vehicle evaluation companies uses auctions (where else will you get car values by the thousands on a weekly basis) to come up with their numbers, which can play a huge role in a vehicles's price...

    Again this a just a small part of the equation! I would love to see the value of my MC to jump higher but don't expect it to happen very easily...

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adrian10529 View Post
    This is a good thing for insurance reasons too. Let's say you total your m coupe and then the insurance company only wants to give you $10k. $10k, you serious? Try finding an M coupe for $10k, can't even find a salvage title one for that. Great news, hopefully it goes through.
    At least with geico I ran into this... and they relented in that we settled on what had sold previously (and not what was listed in KBB).

  21. #21
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    KBB is so shot and not in tune with real world pricing. Sometimes it serves as a good ballpark but definitely on cars like an M Coupe it doesn't even seem to factor what these cars actually sell for. I would think that is really important. Like said above, good luck finding an M Coupe at the pricing KBB puts on them because its just not what buyers and sellers are valuing them at.
    996TTE39M5R55

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    At what point do we reach cult status and values start to go back up? 2020?

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    Quote Originally Posted by drpboston View Post
    at what point do we reach cult status and values start to go back up? 2020?

    1999

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghery View Post
    It's not that we think highly of our cars, go try and find one for KBB or less.

    You can buy a 99 e36 m3 for 5k now, equivalent M Coupe would be at least 15k
    Im not sure thats a fair comparison. Ive seen M Coupes going for $12K that just needed a little TLC. And its not like the $5K E36 M3s are in good condition.

    The M coupes are valuable but thinking they are 3x as much as a similar condition E36 M3/E46 M3 (depending on engine) is hearsay. As someone else mentioned, there are almost no good condition E36 M3s out there anymore, but if you could find one in similar condition to a well-kept M Coupe, prices would be not be far off. M coupes tend to be better kept, which is a big part of why their values have remained higher. But a 7,000 mile E36 M3 would be worth a pretty penny too.

    The Coupe Cartel guys are funny, and I love their passion for their cars but I also think its kind of silly.

    edit: Also KBB and all those "car value" sites have been FUBAR since the economic crisis. It was fairly accurate before, but its like they didnt adjust any of the "used" car prices after the economy crashed.
    Last edited by BimmerBreaker; 05-26-2011 at 07:05 PM.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by mpire View Post
    So while there are definitely more E36 M3s out there, there are more E46 M3s than all the M cars made by BMW before the E46 came to market. Probably because it was the first one with an Automatic. (Yes, the salespeople told people it was an automatic,
    The E36 M3 was available with a real automatic (torque converter and everything, not the SMG offered in the E46)

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