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Thread: Ignition tables

  1. #51
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    Checked V8 forums. Turbocharged V8s running on methanol @ 30 psi & 7000 rpm ignition is 35 BTDC.

    my ignition map: 8 BTDC @ 30 psi @ 7000 rpm, running on methanol.

    Is my ignition too much retarded or are the V8s less prone to knock?

  2. #52
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    What's your setup?
    WOT

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by hsvturbo View Post
    What's your setup?
    S54 turbo
    9,5: 1 compression
    methanol

  4. #54
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    Those V8s are light years behind S54 efficiency,that is the main reason for the large timing advance.Someone more experienced will chime in,but my guess is you may add a few degree of timing,but nothing close to 35.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by bawareca View Post
    Those V8s are light years behind S54 efficiency,that is the main reason for the large timing advance.Someone more experienced will chime in,but my guess is you may add a few degree of timing,but nothing close to 35.
    Even if V8s are not as efficient as S54s how can they live at 35 Degrees @ 30 psi?

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by prom3 View Post
    Even if V8s are not as efficient as S54s how can they live at 35 Degrees @ 30 psi?
    There is so much more to all of that... you cannot directly compare anything you're trying to compare.

    Do you feel your car is not tuned optimally?

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by NOTORIOUS VR View Post
    There is so much more to all of that... you cannot directly compare anything you're trying to compare.

    Do you feel your car is not tuned optimally?

    I dont feel so, just compared my ignition vs. V8's ignition.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by prom3 View Post
    I dont feel so, just compared my ignition vs. V8's ignition.
    It's totally different. What V8 is running 30psi with 30* on timing? How many valves? What cams, how efficient is the head? Etc

    30psi with what? YSi trim, k04 or GT42? PSI is irrelevant.
    Last edited by futureroadracer; 01-05-2015 at 02:35 PM.
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  9. #59
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    I created a thread years ago about this... http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...-than-4v-heads

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by futureroadracer View Post
    It's totally different. What V8 is running 30psi with 30* on timing? How many valves? What cams, how efficient is the head? Etc

    30psi with what? YSi trim, k04 or GT42? PSI is irrelevant.
    Quote Originally Posted by 5mall5nail5 View Post
    I created a thread years ago about this... http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...-than-4v-heads
    thanks.

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5mall5nail5 View Post

    So the reason why a 4v motor might only want 20 degrees where a 2v motor might want 35 degrees is because the flame moves slower through the chamber in a 2v motor and that delta of 15 degrees (hypothetical figures used).
    Love that thread Still wondering what may cause the flame to move slower in my head

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5mall5nail5 View Post
    I created a thread years ago about this... http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...-than-4v-heads

    thank you very much for starting that thread, I dont care about deviations from original thread, did not even read 2 V guys comments. You started and stated facts, thanks man.

  13. #63
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    8deg at 7000rpm looks odd to me...
    For example M50 2.8 9.5cr on E85 Ethanol wants 21deg at 7000rpm/2bar.
    OK S54 is more efficient and you probably are making 300-400whp more there, but still i would expect higher numbers than 8, especially on Methanol. Have you tried more advance, is torque increasing ?
    Is your base timing 101% correct ? What power figures are you making ?
    E30 325i '90 - M50B25 stock + ARP + HX52 + E85 = 651WHP
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  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by bawareca View Post
    Love that thread Still wondering what may cause the flame to move slower in my head
    The combustion chamber design and velocity of air entering one bigger valve. I wish my pictures were still linked you can see the in-cylinder images. I'll have to find them.

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laimis View Post
    8deg at 7000rpm looks odd to me...
    For example M50 2.8 9.5cr on E85 Ethanol wants 21deg at 7000rpm/2bar.
    OK S54 is more efficient and you probably are making 300-400whp more there, but still i would expect higher numbers than 8, especially on Methanol. Have you tried more advance, is torque increasing ?
    Is your base timing 101% correct ? What power figures are you making ?

    I dont know if timing is "optimal".
    compression ratio is 11,5:1
    have not tried advancing as the m3 slipped on rollers...

  16. #66
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    Tune your engine on the hub dyno and see what it wants
    E30 325i '90 - M50B25 stock + ARP + HX52 + E85 = 651WHP
    E46 330cd '04 M-Technic
    E92 335i '10 M-Technic


    Dynapack 2WD 1500HP Dyno

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laimis View Post
    Tune your engine on the hub dyno and see what it wants
    Quiet you with your logic!

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by NOTORIOUS VR View Post
    Quiet you with your logic!
    Oops
    E30 325i '90 - M50B25 stock + ARP + HX52 + E85 = 651WHP
    E46 330cd '04 M-Technic
    E92 335i '10 M-Technic


    Dynapack 2WD 1500HP Dyno

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laimis View Post
    Tune your engine on the hub dyno and see what it wants
    I was wondering why you wouldn't see what the timing should be based on MBT. Thats the best answer you are going to get!
    -Nick
    91 E30 M42 on VEMS

    Turbo Camshaft Thread

  20. #70
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    VE table.jpgIgnition.jpg

    Now focusing on my turbo E30:
    93 OCTANE
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    Yesterday, made 233 rwhp/244 rwtq at 15 psi(manual boost controller) on a mustang dyno; turbo is pretty laggy but not too bad considering I am looking for around 300/300 right now. What I am trying to figure out right now are 3 things:

    1) Is my setup (adapter and turbo) as efficient as it is going to get or am I leaving power on the table, i.e. are my tables too conservative?
    2) Right now, from 6000 to 6500 rpms, the car is pulling timing from 16.3 all the way down to 4 in just 500 rpms! So have to look at why
    3) Currently, running without a TPS. Ran stock ICV for 3 months with no issues....started car one day, and idle jumped to 3k rpms! No input in MS2 for idle would affect idle, swapped in 2 x brand new ICVs, no change, unplugging ICV = no change. This was with zero changes to MS2??? I would like to run an ICV because I still have A/C
    Last edited by BMWManiac; 01-09-2015 at 08:05 AM.
    1997 Arctic Silver/Black M3
    CES Stage IV (651rwhp/615rwtq @ 24 psi)

    1999 Techno Violet/Dove M3
    Auto/Convertible and staying stock!

  21. #71
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    Sounds like you're on the low side... and your IGN table doesn't look like it's too far retarded.

    Are you sure the MS2 is properly sync'd and you're actually getting the advance values you're entering? The peak number will also suffer since you're dropping to 4 deg after 6k obviously.

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by NOTORIOUS VR View Post
    Sounds like you're on the low side... and your IGN table doesn't look like it's too far retarded.

    Are you sure the MS2 is properly sync'd and you're actually getting the advance values you're entering? The peak number will also suffer since you're dropping to 4 deg after 6k obviously.
    Well, when you ask am I sure....then I begin to doubt. I only know what I see in MS2 and the datalog, so how do I confirm that my MS2 is really "sync'd" with my ECU? and understood about the peak number....looking into it now.
    1997 Arctic Silver/Black M3
    CES Stage IV (651rwhp/615rwtq @ 24 psi)

    1999 Techno Violet/Dove M3
    Auto/Convertible and staying stock!

  23. #73
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    I wouldn't have the 225 KPA row at 2-degrees. Isn't 15 psi somewhere between 200-225KPA? If so, then MS is just running mostly at the 225 side of things, no?
    WOT

  24. #74
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    I'm seeing a MAP reading of 190s....I just put 2.0 as a safety for overboost
    1997 Arctic Silver/Black M3
    CES Stage IV (651rwhp/615rwtq @ 24 psi)

    1999 Techno Violet/Dove M3
    Auto/Convertible and staying stock!

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by BMWManiac View Post
    Well, when you ask am I sure....then I begin to doubt. I only know what I see in MS2 and the datalog, so how do I confirm that my MS2 is really "sync'd" with my ECU? and understood about the peak number....looking into it now.
    You need to use a timing gun and verify physically what timing your engine is seeing vs. what the ECU is reporting.

    Also I agree, putting 2 deg. past 200 doesn't make any sense and might be the reason you're seeing timing retard. Put a more sane number in there instead.

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