Page 1 of 5 12345 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 115

Thread: Ignition tables

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Oxford, England
    Posts
    1,005
    My Cars
    E30 325i

    Ignition tables

    As discussed in another thread there seems to be some lacking information regarding the values related to M50 based engines.


    Please post your ignition table and the relevant information related to it.

    Engine : M50 Non vanos, ARP and MLS
    Turbo : Borg Warner S257 (57mm compressor, 63mm turbine)
    Exhaust : "3
    Load strategy : Speed density
    Fuel : 98ron / 91mon

    This table was thrown together being considered safe. It worked a treat was run to 1bar boost.



    just for kicks here is the cars VE table.

    With great challenges comes great engineering.
    Gunni @ Prodrive
    You know what wins race?
    Integration wins races. Fraking mathematical certainty says it does.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    870
    My Cars
    E30 m30 turbo
    Thanks for sharing.
    Is this dyno tuned, and on what octane rating?
    any other details/comments on that tune?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Oxford, England
    Posts
    1,005
    My Cars
    E30 325i
    I mentioned the octane number.

    And no not dyno tuned. We where going to tune it on the street but time was against us.
    The fuel is spot on though as thats of course easy.
    With great challenges comes great engineering.
    Gunni @ Prodrive
    You know what wins race?
    Integration wins races. Fraking mathematical certainty says it does.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Oxford, England
    Posts
    1,005
    My Cars
    E30 325i
    Nobody?

    I was almost 100% sure this would happen actually.

    Is everybodies ignition table such hush hush it canīt be revealed to the public?
    With great challenges comes great engineering.
    Gunni @ Prodrive
    You know what wins race?
    Integration wins races. Fraking mathematical certainty says it does.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    45,532
    My Cars
    BMWs
    No many of our timing tables have been published for so long its no big thang!



    8.5:1 M50B28 non vanos pump gas and water meth

    http://jonkensy.com/megasquirt/nonvanostiming.htm

    ^^^ M50 non vanos stock motor 93 octane.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Miami, FL
    Posts
    1,121
    My Cars
    '94 325iS
    GsTuning - Timing looks good to me for lower compression. 15* is pretty safe on peak boost and 20* is about where I am at at redline.

    Jon your ignition table looks VERY conservative for your built motor. How much boost are you running?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    45,532
    My Cars
    BMWs
    Quote Originally Posted by zak View Post
    Jon your ignition table looks VERY conservative for your built motor. How much boost are you running?
    I know

    I'd have to pull the latest map in the car but its not running much more timing. I literally took my conservative street tune to the dyno and did pulls. I think I added .5 degrees up top and the clutch let go. I was running around 300 kPA for 685 rwhp with a timing map not to dissimilar from the above.

    Edit: Actually, I pulled my timing map from before the dyno (like 2 weeks before I think) and ... its even more conservative lol:



    I think I had it up to about 10 advance under the 315 kPA column when the clutch let go.

    Imagine how much power is left on the table. I run about 22 psi on the street. The truth is its fast as is so I have a hard time tuning timing on the street. Make some edits if you want!
    Last edited by 5mall5nail5; 05-18-2011 at 01:42 PM.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Bellingham, WA
    Posts
    3,332
    My Cars
    e30
    Hopefully this gets stickied for reference. I think this kind of info makes people a lot more inclined to DIY. Always seemed odd to me the M50 variant motors dont have the amount of info out there the M20 does regarding tuning.

    I figure this will be somewhat relevant to me with an M42 since its a similar head design.
    -Nick
    91 E30 M42 on VEMS

    Turbo Camshaft Thread

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Fish & Mango Pickle
    Posts
    1,769
    My Cars
    E30 S52 TURBO
    heres an older map of mine, honestly can't remember what iteration. around the time i dyno'd at ICS

    gt35r
    built s52
    pump & meth


  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    45,532
    My Cars
    BMWs
    We are low-timing warriors Jay

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    buffalo ny
    Posts
    3,546
    My Cars
    328is, civic


    this is a very old timing map, stock m52 .140 head gasket, sc61, 28-30psi, 100oct fuel.

    i dont have any screen shots of my current setup. but id have to say timing is close if not probably a few degrees more on q16 fuel.
    1005whp/831wtq little bit of low boost pump gas magic...

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    A house
    Posts
    2,117
    My Cars
    '87 325e, '05 4Runner V8
    Quote Originally Posted by multiplex View Post
    heres an older map of mine, honestly can't remember what iteration. around the time i dyno'd at ICS

    gt35r
    built s52
    pump & meth
    Here's your latest map:


  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Miami, FL
    Posts
    1,121
    My Cars
    '94 325iS
    Quote Originally Posted by jfdmas View Post


    this is a very old timing map, stock m52 .140 head gasket, sc61, 28-30psi, 100oct fuel.

    i dont have any screen shots of my current setup. but id have to say timing is close if not probably a few degrees more on q16 fuel.
    Winner

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    P-town Utah
    Posts
    441
    My Cars
    Lotus Super 7
    Your ignition curves look inline with many of the other cars I tune. This was on jonesmechanicals 40R coupe. When I first saw the ignition table that was tuned by active autoworks I was like: WOW CONSERVATIVE and thought we could get a lot more power out of it. So we schedule a dyno time and get it on the dyno. The area in red is red because that is where I made the last changes to the map. I TRIED EVERYTHING. Even said forget it and pulled the timing WAY down and started to slowly advance it till the tq curve started to fall off and I got right back to the same spot again. If I add 1-2 degrees in the red area portion of the map the torque starts to fall. Yet when I look at every map you guys have posted you are all 2-3 degrees more advanced.

    BTW this dyno was on 91 pump with alchy meth injection.

    Anyway. Here is the map:
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by flexer; 05-18-2011 at 03:12 PM.
    Attention TURBO LOVERS, Great book -----> How to turbocharge and Tune your Engine

    Favorite Automotive Tuning Articles on the Internet: Engine Tuning Articles
    My Car: Custom Build Lotus Super 7

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    45,532
    My Cars
    BMWs
    The danger in just going by other maps blindly is how can you be sure their timing is zeroed out and 15 degrees is 15 degrees, etc? I have seen maps where the crank angle was clearly setup incorrectly as the numbers were way off.... and if you ran them, you'd esplode.

    That's the danger in threads like these.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Oxford, England
    Posts
    1,005
    My Cars
    E30 325i
    You can be everybodies saviour.

    If people canīt handle the basics of checking their ignition timing when installing a standalone that is not PnP then they shouldnīt be messing with these things at all.
    With great challenges comes great engineering.
    Gunni @ Prodrive
    You know what wins race?
    Integration wins races. Fraking mathematical certainty says it does.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    45,532
    My Cars
    BMWs
    It'd be nice if that were always the case, but we both know how people are

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Windsor,Ontario,Canada
    Posts
    392
    My Cars
    Turbo 328is
    Engine:bone stock m52
    Turbo: t3/t04e 60 trim
    Exhaust: 3"
    Fuel: Ontario 91 Octane (actualy most time spent on sonoco 94 pump, but ended up running the 91 stuff eventually).

    Ran it up to ~9-10psi.
    No dyno work, only street tuned. Didn't blow up the car or audibly knock but has a bit of way to go before I'd say it's anything good.

    EDITED to include relevant info.

    Last edited by PedroBMW; 05-18-2011 at 08:51 PM.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    P-town Utah
    Posts
    441
    My Cars
    Lotus Super 7
    Well now I don't feel so bad. Your timing looks to be as low as what I am running on the turbo BMW's that I have tuned.

    HOW THE HELL are you other guys running so much timing? I did see one of you is using 100 octane so you don't count. :-)

    JR
    Attention TURBO LOVERS, Great book -----> How to turbocharge and Tune your Engine

    Favorite Automotive Tuning Articles on the Internet: Engine Tuning Articles
    My Car: Custom Build Lotus Super 7

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    P-town Utah
    Posts
    441
    My Cars
    Lotus Super 7
    Really....nothing. No seriously. What could be the cause for having to run such low timing compared to you guys on Jonesmechanicals car.

    JR
    Attention TURBO LOVERS, Great book -----> How to turbocharge and Tune your Engine

    Favorite Automotive Tuning Articles on the Internet: Engine Tuning Articles
    My Car: Custom Build Lotus Super 7

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    45,532
    My Cars
    BMWs
    Have you considered the crank angle/trigger offset?

    Thats why its dangerous to compare timing tables.

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    buffalo ny
    Posts
    3,546
    My Cars
    328is, civic
    yea, i cant garuntee my timing accuracy. i tune to what the engine wants. not to what the numbers say. well, within reason.
    1005whp/831wtq little bit of low boost pump gas magic...

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    air, dirt, fire, water
    Posts
    16,556
    My Cars
    95M3 92525iT 78810 95525
    Where are the "pro" tuner's?
    Will they offer up some time?

    (no offense meant to those who have already posted some info)


  24. #24
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    CA
    Posts
    365
    My Cars
    e36
    Quote Originally Posted by milKt View Post
    Where are the "pro" tuner's?
    Will they offer up some time?

    (no offense meant to those who have already posted some info)
    yes, we need more comments,tables and info about the unknown...

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Metro Detroit
    Posts
    605
    My Cars
    98 M Roadster
    This table has not been optimized and is uber conservative. Just something until I gain confidence in my knock control. Engine is 2.8L M52, .140" hg, M3 cams, M50 intake 93octane.
    I am guessing as we update our ignition maps, we should just update our post instead of adding another.




Page 1 of 5 12345 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •