Vorshlag E46 Alpha - 330Ci LSx Build Thread

[LSX Fan]

Nice attitude

I spent lots of time & money on this & our findings were that bmw use a different type of canBus to the units that were available last year, maybe I'm wrong or the units have changed?

If Hinsons unit was compatible would they not have jumped on one of the dozens of threads about this subject & sold a lot of units?

Dude...you're kind of a negative soul, aren't you? What's the deal...do you NOT want it to work? In my experience everything has a solution. Yes the CANbus may be a pain, but it's not impossible to translate.

[Pzary3233]

And you are?

[douglee25]

He's an LSX Fan.

[Pzary3233]

Obviously...

[douglee25]

[BikealarmBlair]

Nope 2001 car & all original guages only one I haven't got control of is the mpg guage

Dude...you're kind of a negative soul, aren't you? What's the deal...do you NOT want it to work? In my experience everything has a solution. Yes the CANbus may be a pain, but it's not impossible to translate.

So negative that mine all works...

[Pzary3233]

Does your hvac stuff work or is that the next step in the mystery?

Maybe you could swap to an m3 cluster and then you have oil temp there... That is easy enough to wire up!

[Fair]

Nice attitude

I spent lots of time & money on this & our findings were that bmw use a different type of canBus to the units that were available last year, maybe I'm wrong or the units have changed?

If Hinsons unit was compatible would they not have jumped on one of the dozens of threads about this subject & sold a lot of units?

I'm with BikealarmBlair here... people are making this CANBUS gateway into some "its so easy" solution, and then jumping on his ass like he's the bad guy when he doubts the interweb experts. I also seriously doubt this magic gateway is the ultimate, easy solution...

This box does look like a possible CAN translator for this application, if it can even communicate with the BMW CAN system (which nobody here knows for sure yet), this is hardly a simple solution. That could still mean dozens if not hundreds of hours of programming to reverse engineer what channels are what, what each channels needs to be converted to so the other DME can see it, etc. That gateway looks to have a DB25 / RS232 style port on it. I don't see that on either the LS1 or BMW DMEs, so there's going to be some wiring involved as well.

Look, I'm no expert but I worked for several years building control systems for power plants, and I know first hand how "not easy" it is making one system with hundreds of data channels talk to another system. That's why I side on the side of pessimism here. Please also do not discount the hard work BikealarmBlair has poured into making one of if not the only fully functional E46 LSx swap. His "2nd DME + 2nd set of sensors" solution seems significantly easier to me, and is the one we are going to look at first.

BikealarmBlair : thanks for contributing here... all of us here at Vorshlag follow your build thread and we appreciate your invaluable insight, even if others here seemingly don't (or even recognize your user name).

We just got a big batch of E36 LSX swap headers in 2 days ago, so we're thrashing to get E36 Stage 0 & header orders shipped out. We have also had about a dozens cars come through our shop in the past couple of weeks and haven't touched the E46 Alpha project since my last update. We did do some work on another E46 that will help us with some stuff we need to tackle on the E46 Alpha, and our car is on the work schedule to get some attention late next week.

More soon,

[Pzary3233]

Heh, Thanks Fair.

I think that the dual DME/Sensor thing is a great way to go if you have the ability to make the parts - as you do!

E46 M3 shells seem to be getting cheaper... :-)

[hefftone]

Its just like most other stuff.....how long were people using rising rate fuel pressure regulators with fuel injection? Then they were burning chips. Now they are reprogramming ecus, emulating all kinds of stuff! Hell in the beginning they were removing fuel injection to run carbs, because that's what they knew.

I think eventually can bus will become commonplace enough where people will say "remember when it was shrouded in all that mystery." That may be a number of years away. So until then.....I say whatever works!

[R33GTR]

I'm with BikealarmBlair here... people are making this CANBUS gateway into some "its so easy" solution, and then jumping on his ass like he's the bad guy when he doubts the interweb experts.

No one said anything about it being an easy solution. No one said Hinson's product would be a direct swap either. What I said is that this is a possible solution for the two systems to talk to each other. It would have never crossed my mind that people who are open minded enough to do an engine swap in the first place, would then in turn be so narrow minded in it's approach and execution.

My point is this.. Hinson's product shows that FULL compatibility is gained between two independent incompatible CANBUS protocols through a device they call a CAN Gateway. Now, if this product can work to allow a GM to communicate with a Nissan and is freely programable then it can work for any CANBUS. Why? CANBUS is a digital network, specific to cars. It's simply networking two computers with different network protocols.

So what do we need to make it work? A device to translate the signals and someone to program the device. I never said that programming the device or getting access to the protocol specifications would be easy. Though I don't think it would be hard to do for someone who is versed in computer programming and network systems to do.

Just because some guy in the UK spent a lot of money on a swap doesn't make him an expert on the wiring system and what is capable. Especially since I'm basing this on what is ALREADY commercially available for another platform.

[BikealarmBlair]

Just because some guy in the UK spent a lot of money on a swap doesn't make him an expert on the wiring system and what is capable. Especially since I'm basing this on what is ALREADY commercially available for another platform.

I may not be an expert in your eyes, but I do have one of the only E46's in the world with an LSx & working electrics & as someone that has wired 20+ LSx engines into various cars (Rx7, E36 M3, Z3M's, Is200's, E21, TVR Cerbera, TVR Tuscan, Toyota Supra, S13 etc) I think it's fair to say I have decent idea what I'm doing..... I didn't notice a link to your swap.......?

Fair et all thanks for your kind words

[Pzary3233]

* Applause *

[PianoProdigy]

Having had a swapped FC in the past, I would be all over this for my E46 M3.

[twinscrewed]

http://www.apexspeedtech.com/services

Stand Alone ABS Systems

Apex Speed Technology is proud to offer stand-alone ABS solutions for Porsche, BMW and many other racing vehicles. We can separate the vehicle ABS/stability management control from the stock, street car setup to something optimized for the race track.

[douglee25]

What does something like that cost?

Doug

[R33GTR]

I may not be an expert in your eyes, but I do have one of the only E46's in the world with an LSx & working electrics & as someone that has wired 20+ LSx engines into various cars (Rx7, E36 M3, Z3M's, Is200's, E21, TVR Cerbera, TVR Tuscan, Toyota Supra, S13 etc) I think it's fair to say I have decent idea what I'm doing..... I didn't notice a link to your swap.......?

Fair et all thanks for your kind words

What is this supposed to mean? I have done plenty of swaps myself as well into a variety of different platforms with various different engines. That isn't the point here. I'm not here for a pissing match. Same team here.

The point is to find a solution to the CANBUS issue. An issue that you ARE NOT an expert on no matter how many cars you have previously got working.

Your car is no doubt cool. Fair has a significant vested interest in a solution and I don't expect him to openly share ideas; however, bikealarmblair you have little to no reason to doubt the validity of a possible CANBUS solution. what I find strange in this forum compared to others is that people here are apparently too good to share ideas.

I mean, if there was a CANBUS solution CLEARLY bikealarmblair would have implemented it first. He did spend a lot of money and research CANBUS. There is no room for improvement at all, his is the car we should all aspire to obtain...

[Pzary3233]

Ok, so what is your background on the CANBUS system? How can you help other then stating that it is "That simple"?

[hefftone]

There are plenty of old canbus threads where this discussion could be debated. Search....i know i've brought the hinson gateway up a couple of times i the past. Lets leave this thread to fair, so when I go back to read it in a couple of years, maybe it wont be 40 pages long.
I think you both have valid points, just grab another thread.

[hefftone]

There are plenty of old canbus threads where this discussion could be debated. Search....i know i've brought the hinson gateway up a couple of times i the past. Lets leave this thread to fair, so when I go back to read it in a couple of years, maybe it wont be 40 pages long.
I think you both have valid points, just grab another thread.

[BikealarmBlair]

I think you both have valid points, just grab another thread.

[e46v8]

Have you guys got a solution for the tacho & coolant temp guages?? I'm doing this conversion in the UK (here's my build thread http://www.bimmerforums.co.uk/forum/...048/page9.html ) & could really do with an interface for them

Blair

Blair, I tried to contact Craig Taylor @ Dynotorque with no sucess can you advise if:


Blair / Craig,

I have a E46 02 RHD 330ci Convertible, I am looking to put a LS7 and TKO or a T56 in (it only needs a 5speed anyway), I have a M3 LSD ready to go, so can you or do you sell conversion parts like, engine mounts, gearbox mounts, steering shaft mods, exhaust headers, and can you advise about the electrics. Can you program a BMW computer and supply a bridging harness to the GM EMS (I'll pay you), I would like to keep the BMW gauges, A/c, etc. I may install a Haltech or Motec EMS for more control over the engine, however that will fit into the GM harness anyway.

So am I better off to do a Haltech or Motec EMS as the engine controller, will it make the conversion between the BMW computer easier. (I can get T/C to work through the Haltech / Motec EMS if I fit it anyway) There are possibly 3-4 other guys that want similar conversions here in Australia. I would really appreciate any advice.

[BikealarmBlair]

Blair, I tried to contact Craig Taylor @ Dynotorque with no sucess can you advise if:


Blair / Craig,

I have a E46 02 RHD 330ci Convertible, I am looking to put a LS7 and TKO or a T56 in (it only needs a 5speed anyway), I have a M3 LSD ready to go, so can you or do you sell conversion parts like, engine mounts, gearbox mounts, steering shaft mods, exhaust headers, and can you advise about the electrics. Can you program a BMW computer and supply a bridging harness to the GM EMS (I'll pay you), I would like to keep the BMW gauges, A/c, etc. I may install a Haltech or Motec EMS for more control over the engine, however that will fit into the GM harness anyway.

So am I better off to do a Haltech or Motec EMS as the engine controller, will it make the conversion between the BMW computer easier. (I can get T/C to work through the Haltech / Motec EMS if I fit it anyway) There are possibly 3-4 other guys that want similar conversions here in Australia. I would really appreciate any advice.

I don't know why you can't get hold of us, I'll pm you Craig's email

[caperix]

I did some research into trying to preform this swap on a friends car, that project did not get off the ground though. I was going to go the same direction as BikealarmBlair, using the BMW DME to run the guage cluster & A/C compressor as it seamed to be the best way to run it.
Some ideas you may be interested in looking into if you have not allready. ATI makes a Dampner for the S50 engines with a crank sensor ring installed. If you plan on selling them as a kit they may be persuaded into building a LS1 dampner with this ring installed. A N62 Throttle body will plug into a M54 wiring harness, it is 3" - 3.5" I need to measure to be sure. With an adapter to an LS1 intake this may allow full ABS & traction control integration. Im just not sure how it would react as it is designed to work allong with a idle control valve on a M54. The LS1 PCM would need control of the idle valve for propper idle control, but the BMW DME may also need control of it for propper EDK throttle opperation.
Just some ideas, I hope this gets off the ground as I still have a dream of putting a 6.0 LS and a TKO 5 speed in an E46 wagon.

[02PRUV]

bikealarmblair has the right idea. Use the BMW DME in the car. I haven't done this swap but I have got a custom turboed S54 in my E46 M3 with a aftermarket computer running it. On an S54 the only thing I have the BMW DME connected to is the intake cam (this is where it gets the RPM signal from), water temp sensor (I installed a second sensor for the aftermarket computer), and the oil temp gauge (which still connects to the factory sensor).

Why would you bother trying to stuff around with the canbus when you don't have to. Doing it with still using the BMW DME in the car will make the swap kits so much cheaper for the end customer. People should stop complaining.

Also just wondering if anyone has engine mounts and gearbox crossmembers for sale for the LSx swap yet. I'm ready to do a conversion and don't want a complete kit cause I'm going to go turbo straight away. But if Vorshlag or bikealarmblair have mounts and crossmember ready to sell now it would save me some time.