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Thread: The E36 Diff Thread

  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by wanganstyle View Post
    regarding Lock up modification (for the center section) - I have done many, many........ of these.

    IF adding 1 more to any e30 or e36 differential for a TOTAL of 3 clutch discs + 3 dog plates, NO MACHINING IS REQUIRED.


    there is a 4mm spacer at the bottom of the case. Remove this steel spacer, replace with 1 dog plate and 1 clutch. if you order 2.0mm for these it will be = identical stack.


    IF you want 4 clutch discs in the stock e30 or e36 188mm LSD, then the top cap would have to be machined. Some BMW OEM LSD units in 188mm have a thin top cap and 4 clutch disc conversion can be accomplished with 0 machining or modification. This is going deeper in parts bin compatibility than most DIY-er's will have parts for.

    Some rare bird 188mm LSD's came from BMW with OEM 4 clutch discs. also Asymetrical center ramps (40/25% locking on accel/deccel)
    Thank you. I realized that a while ago, but never updated my information
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  2. #77
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    anybody know of parts sources for small case diffs with LSD?
    David Ortiz

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by odortiz View Post
    anybody know of parts sources for small case diffs with LSD?
    You can find all of the part numbers for the bearing/race assemblies, seals, o-rings, shims, nuts, bolts, etc. through RealOEM (I'm assuming you are looking at a small case out of an E36 318i or similar?). As far as new clutches go...that I am unsure of. I've been searching for months trying to figure out a valid part number for the clutches that fit the small case diffs.
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  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by 328 Power 04 View Post
    You're awesome! Thanks for your replies.

    Do you know of any reason as to why my output shaft broke right through the shaft part? It doesn't seem to be a common thing, I've searched.
    Only healthy diff car I know that can snap Oem stub axels is a drag car running 9's, I've seen Hondas snap axels a few in a row at the drag strip if the LSD is funny
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  5. #80
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    Carrier preload

    While waiting for parts to come in, was trying to figure out how to check carrier preload using the donor differential. With only the carrier installed, along with the end caps with no seals or o-rings, torqued to spec (10 ft lbs + 40 degrees), and using a beam style inch pound torque wrench, I only see around 7-8 inch lbs +/- rotating in either direction. Is carrier pre load on old bearings/races going to be less than when new bearings are installed? When re-installing the same components, do you need to worry about carrier pre load? Or, does carrier pre load only come into play when new bearings are installed to account for break in?

  6. #81
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    u need to worry about pre-load every time u retorque the pinion nut
    "Torque is like cowbell... you can never have too much." - Michael Cervi


  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by 99MPower View Post
    u need to worry about pre-load every time u retorque the pinion nut
    Thanks for the response. I understand you need to worry about pre load with the pinion and using a new crush sleeve, but I was asking about carrier pre load when for example you take apart an existing unit and do not change carrier bearings as you are just putting it back together again. In this case, would you expect carrier preload (with the same bearings and shims) to still be within the spec of 9-22 inch lbs? It's more of a curiousity question than anything, but for example the TIS states that checking pre- load can be skipped when installing old bearings. I am guessing that this is due to the fact that with old bearings, they would not expect the same pre load figures as with new and are assuming you are putting it back together with the same shims etc.

    http://tis.spaghetticoder.org/s/view.pl?2/08/50

    "The next 12 operations can only be omitted if the differential housing bearings are not being replaced"

  8. #83
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    new bearings and races will wear down a little as they break into each other. Notice how the races/bearings have a wear pattern to them; new races are...new

    new seals also cause more "drag" than worn in ones.

    "drag" setting for new bearings and seals is more than used items.
    setting of the center section has to do with tension on the bearings and the mesh with the gearing set.

    having pinion gear+side axels installed will add to this "drag" number as well.
    not enough preload on the center cartridge will = side to side play between bearings and races. too much load will kill the bearings prematurely.
    Last edited by wanganstyle; 11-29-2011 at 01:10 AM.
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  9. #84
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    Thanks as always Wanganstyle. That confirms what I was thinking, but wanted to validate that what I was seeing with the old bearings made sense and I wasn't just misreading or not accurately checking the torque wrench. Now just waiting on some shims to arrive...

  10. #85
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    RRSperry is offline Senior Moment Member BMW E36 M3 Expert
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    Also remember that you should calibrate your torque wrench.

    It's not hard.

    Hang a known weight (1#, or 5#, or whatever...), from the wrench at 90 degrees to the handle. measure the distance from the pivot. Torque is force x distance x cos angle. (cos 90 =1) Force units are lbs, distance is inches or feet...
    No matter where you go, there you are...

  11. #86
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    Just finished my swap. Took the guts from a medium case 3.46 LSD diff and swapped to a donor case for my 95 M3. I used the pinion shim from the 3.46 and it worked perfect. The other shim was pretty much the same size and probably would have worked as well - I measured them both using a digital caliper and depending on where or how I measured, they seemed to be about the same size anyways. A couple things I will say to those thinking of doing this:

    1) Get or borrow a press. I screwed around for hours and bought multiple tools and gear pullers that really were a waste of time. Once I wised up and brought my stuff over to a friends shop, removing bearings etc took all of ten minutes. The clamshell puller used creatively with an assortment of spare parts to press off existing bearings made quick work of the job. I think I will buy a Harbor Freight one for future use.

    2) Pre crush the sleeve. I experimented with breaker bars and long cheater pipes and failed miserably. What I ended up doing in order to crush it evenly was mount it to a spare pinion, on top of that I put a setup bearing that I bored out a bit with a dremel, and I then put a spare output flange on top of that to use between it and the top of the press. It pressed down nice and even and I pressed an extra one as well for next time. When it came time to set pinion pre load, I took a chance and just used an impact gun. I would do a few zips, check it with my torque wrench (got mine from Amazon from Park Tools who make bike tools). Looks the same as the KD Tools one, but was slightly cheaper.

    3) Mark everything even if you think you will easily remember where it came from and how it goes back together.

    4) Order the carrier shims in advance - measure them and then mark the sizes using a sharpie.

    5) If your garage is under your house like mine, keep the garage door open or your wife will complain incessantly about the smell of gear oil throughout your home.

    6) Thank the folks who took the time to document all of this as it made my job much easier.

    7) Remember to put the retaining washer over the pinion nut prior to re-installing in car. After having most of it put back in the car last night around 11PM, I did a lot of swearing.

    Hopefully it holds up ok. Should be testing it next weekend at Thunderhill raceway.

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonb94118 View Post
    5) If your garage is under your house like mine, keep the garage door open or your wife will complain incessantly about the smell of gear oil throughout your home.
    My garage was so stinky all of last winter when I got busy doing this. Smells like a real shop though with the gear oil odor.

    Glad to hear you had success in getting one together. I'm approaching 10k miles on mine with no problems to speak of.
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  13. #88
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    Yeah, I think my hands have been left with a permanent odor.

    Here's a few random pictures of my setup.

    Thanks again to you and Wanganstyle for your help.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  14. #89
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    3.46

    I have a 3.46 diff sitting in my buddy's shop, luckily he's a differential specialist so we're just waiting for the right time to swap the guts out. I currently have a 3.23 (s52 e36 m3) and I want some more get-up off of the line, because frankly, Ive only went 125 once, and that was fast enough. (chp are NOT very nice around stockton) so I figure going to the 3.46 should help my case. The build thread is excellent, I learned a whole heckuva lot. The part numbers for bearings and races stand to prove as worthy as the information itself, because the only thing keeping us from doing this swap (more him doing it, and me watching in awe that is) is the cost of parts from the dealership. Great thread my man

    Custom Stage 3-ish RMS supercharged E36 M3/4/5
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  16. #91
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    any parts numbers for 210mm diffs? specifically friction plates?

  17. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattmartindrift View Post
    any parts numbers for 210mm diffs? specifically friction plates?
    You should be able to figure it out by looking at:
    http://parts.bmwofsouthatlanta.com/s...=0&modelYear=0

    You might have to look at a few different diagrams though as this is for a 188 diff I believe.

    What I am trying to figure out is the part number for the lug disc on a 188 diff.
    In the diagram above, it looks like it would be part number 4, but I think they have the diagram backwards where the lug disc should be on the other side of the thrust washer and diaphram spring. The part I am talking about is the one on top in the attached pic.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  18. #93
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    thanks!

    hmm. it says 210mm:

    http://parts.bmwofsouthatlanta.com/s...=0&modelYear=0

    sounds like a diff rebuild is order, soon.

  19. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattmartindrift View Post
    thanks!

    hmm. it says 210mm:

    http://parts.bmwofsouthatlanta.com/s...=0&modelYear=0

    sounds like a diff rebuild is order, soon.
    FYI, the "2,10mm" on that link is the actual thickness of the plate. It has nothing to do with corresponding to a 210mm differential.
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  20. #95
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    argh, you're right, they use commas for decimal points, and i've yet to hook up my coffee IV.

  21. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattmartindrift View Post
    argh, you're right, they use commas for decimal points, and i've yet to hook up my coffee IV.
    I've got my coffee IV going right now...

    I've been searching since May to find the P/N for the clutch discs for the 210mm differentials...I refuse to pay the outrageous amount that BimmerWorld wants for them...just like their 188mm differential clutches.
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  22. #97
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    Does anyone know the part number for what the TIS refers to as the 'Lug Disc'? See pic in my post above. I have been looking around all over to figure it out, but still not certain as when I look at certain exploded views, it will look similar, but will be in a different installation order.

  23. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonb94118 View Post
    Does anyone know the part number for what the TIS refers to as the 'Lug Disc'? See pic in my post above. I have been looking around all over to figure it out, but still not certain as when I look at certain exploded views, it will look similar, but will be in a different installation order.
    The P/N you want is 33141206919. It's #6 in the diagram below:

    However it's a discontinued part.
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  24. #99
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    Thanks for the help.

    Of course it's discontinued...

    The one I'm looking at is a just a little chewed up on the 'lug' portion, but the rest looks ok. Hopefully it is or will have to find one from a donor LSD I guess.

    EDIT: are you sure the one you are talking about is not the 'oil' disc? That one has 2 galleys for oil at 180 degrees from each other (which you can also see in the diagram above) whereas the 'lug disc' has a single lug off of it and one side has indents whereas the other side is smooth. Looking at that diagram, that would look like number 4 to me as it looks cross hatched, but I don't see the lug?
    http://parts.bmwofsouthatlanta.com/s...ssembly=420955
    Last edited by jonb94118; 12-16-2011 at 10:03 AM.

  25. #100
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    It could also very well be #4 in your diagram. I just confirmed through RealOEM that #4 is still a production piece. I'm thinking at some point the order of the stack was switched around. The cross-hatching almost gives it away as being that piece, as nothing else in the stack has a roughed out surface like that. I also check on Tischer's website and it still shows the part as available, and they call it a "thrust washer," which is exactly what it is. It's expensive for what it is though...$44.12. I also checked the P/N I provided from the other diagram and it is also listed as a "thrust washer," but unfortunately discontinued.
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