The E36 Diff Thread

[leon36]

Thanks to europe

?
I've always found the best info on older BMW's comes out of the US. You just have a bigger market.

There is pretty much no info on rebuilding ZF LSD's here in Australia, primarily due to the fact that being a sub tropical climate we didn't get the winter pack that included the LSD. A 188 LSD is a rare piece of equipment down under.

[wanganstyle]

?
I've always found the best info on older BMW's comes out of the US. You just have a bigger market.

There is pretty much no info on rebuilding ZF LSD's here in Australia, primarily due to the fact that being a sub tropical climate we didn't get the winter pack that included the LSD. A 188 LSD is a rare piece of equipment down under.

ZF is in europe and one can speak to the engineering department.
The most (often non-english) adaptation of these LSD units is still...from europe


I have sent plenty of OEM LSD units to AUS and NZ- OEM units to build and also fully built up units for AUS friends building high power BMW's.

USA had alot of LSD's in comparison- many ship to europe as well

[leon36]

Stack spacer difference between 2.5mm and 3.5mm is not that much really- If you want to de-crease the static pre-load you can change to some thiner belleville washers- pm me if you need some.

Still can't send PM i have enquired on your website?/homepage about these.

[wanganstyle]

Easier to email me directly at my screen name @gmail

You are trying to convert to 2.5mm spring setup for lighter 3 series?

[roco123]

Today I did the 3 clutch disc setup, everything went just as expected, the thick spacer though was 4.5mm thick, and a bit odd, the bottom clutch disc and dog ear plate did not seemed to have any kind of wear, marks, etc. just like the new one's I got... The top clutch disc and dog ear plate, had lots of wear , grooves on the disc... Tomorrow I will put the lsd unit back in the case and hopefully it will pay off by making the car great to drive.
This topic is a fountain of knowledge, thank you all.

[Richkid79]

Ppl in Romania are on here? Cool

[bimmerbumm193]

So I am just about ready to rebuild my diff in the hillclimb car and I am wondering if there is any disadvantage to the 40% clutch setup (other than wet street driving?).

The PA Hillclimbs have many super steep 2nd gear turns where the inside tire spins very freely in my high mileage stock diff.

I am assuming the 40% lock is ideal in this situation, correct? I have read and reread the description of the percent lock and my pea brain doesnt fully understand it.

[Gofast]

So I am just about ready to rebuild my diff in the hillclimb car and I am wondering if there is any disadvantage to the 40% clutch setup (other than wet street driving?).

Is that really a disadvantage?
I love my 40% 3.46 in the wet, it breaks loose easily but it's extremely controllable, literally like a giant go-kart.

[wanganstyle]

So I am just about ready to rebuild my diff in the hillclimb car and I am wondering if there is any disadvantage to the 40% clutch setup (other than wet street driving?).

The PA Hillclimbs have many super steep 2nd gear turns where the inside tire spins very freely in my high mileage stock diff.

I am assuming the 40% lock is ideal in this situation, correct? I have read and reread the description of the percent lock and my pea brain doesnt fully understand it.

If setup properly you can run 60% 4 clutch or 80% 5 clutch on the street; the setup is everything. More clutch discs+steels = faster response and max grip- will trend to notice lockup understeer more for the aggressive setups if the ramps are 2.0 way.

Too much preload with high lock diffs and it will handle like a welded at low speeds; BMW motorsports LSD is sometimes setup spring less for minimal preload.

My e34 525i daily car uses a 5 clutch disc 80% lockup unsprung 2 way setup; its great for san Francisco insane hills and parking garages.

I like wet trackdays with 2 way high lock lsd: tarmac rally also. For hillclimb use and steep hairpins more lockup will help you fight those 1 legged corners with both rear tires. Turn in line must be adapted or one will understeer (with a 2 way diff). With 1.5 way centers the lockup rate for deccel will be less than on acceleration so the car will handle more neutral.

40% feels pretty much like stock 25% so many like it for street use setting.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk 2

[deadparrot]

Some fantastic info in this thread! I have a more mundane question though; what is the distance between output flange faces on the 188mm and 210mm diffs? Has anyone measured this?

I ask because I'm planning to use an E36 188mm diff (3.15 or 3.23 most likely) in a 1000kg car producing 300-400FtLb of torque and need to design the halfshafts. I may opt for a 210mm though if it will fit within the suspension geometry.

[nectrplnt993]

Can anyone tell me what diff ratio I have? I know po changed it. When I'm going 70mph rpm is approx 3100.

[kons6]

could anyone tell if the clutch discs for type 188 diff
"There you have it. The clutch discs that Bimmerworld sells are nothing more than the same OEM discs that you can find through Tischer, Germain, or The BMW Part Store for half the price.
The BMW part number is 33141210626."
fit the larger type 210 diff as well?

[bimmerbumm193]

Just started a rebuild on a spare diff and ran into this.

IMG_0817.jpg


IMG_0820.jpg



IMG_0818.jpg



IMG_0821.jpg

I bought this diff from someone who was parting a wrecked car and I bought it with a broken rear cover. The thing obviously got wacked so hard from the side that the splines imprinted into the carrier bore. The axle stub has the smooth section that passes through the carrier so this means that the stub must have been pulled half way out while it got wacked laterally. So how important is this bore regarding the spinning axle stub? I lightly filed the raised imprints and inserted the axle stub and it spins freely. I compared the fit to the other side of the LSD unit (cover) and it seems similar. I doubt I will be able to find another one of these parts that doesnt cost as much as a whole new diff, so....What do you think?

[wanganstyle]

Some fantastic info in this thread! I have a more mundane question though; what is the distance between output flange faces on the 188mm and 210mm diffs? Has anyone measured this?

I ask because I'm planning to use an E36 188mm diff (3.15 or 3.23 most likely) in a 1000kg car producing 300-400FtLb of torque and need to design the halfshafts. I may opt for a 210mm though if it will fit within the suspension geometry.

e36M guys stateside often install directly a e32 v12 unit with CES or other company front mount kits. keep same CV axels-

188mm can take 1,000rwhp/ low 9's; if its built for it.

[328 Power 04]

Bumping this up to get some info. I want to add another clutch pack to my diff to make it ~40% and that would mean I need another "dog ear" plate. Has anyone found a source for those for 188mm diffs (M3 diff, and a Z3 med case diff)?

There was the link to the Porsche diff part source, http://www.einmaligparts.com/Differe...0_c_11895.html
has anyone had any luck with these?

Thank you.

Here is an older thread that says the Porsche 944 clutches (and I suppose dog ears too) will work http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...d.php?t=584168 ... haven't yet confirmed it with anyone though.

I can confirm all these Porsche dog ear plates will work in the 188mm diff. They are identical to the BMW OEM ones. Stamped same manufacturer codes and everything. I put 3 new ones with 3 BMW friction discs in my diff. Build went real well. Costs were kept real low by buying OEM Porsche. I did 2 x 2.0mm and one 2.1mm, after some research about total length.

[jonb94118]

I can confirm all these Porsche dog ear plates will work in the 188mm diff. They are identical to the BMW OEM ones. Stamped same manufacturer codes and everything. I put 3 new ones with 3 BMW friction discs in my diff. Build went real well. Costs were kept real low by buying OEM Porsche. I did 2 x 2.0mm and one 2.1mm, after some research about total length.

Out of curiousity, when you added the 3rd clutch disc, did you check the breakaway torque of the diff on the bench or did you just stack it together and hope for the best? I recently put new discs in a 3.91 and was going to add a 3rd - it would seem no matter what I did, when I would check the breakaway torque it just never seemed right - it would be super high. With two discs, it seemed about right - 60ft lbs. Others have told me that they will use two new clutch discs and maybe one used disc and this way they get it to feel about right. That seems a little off to me though, so I just ended up going back to stock configuration with two fresh discs and dog plates. What I am guessing is most folks don't check it and it probably would have broken in ok once on the car with 3 discs, but was curious what others do.

[328 Power 04]

Out of curiousity, when you added the 3rd clutch disc, did you check the breakaway torque of the diff on the bench or did you just stack it together and hope for the best? I recently put new discs in a 3.91 and was going to add a 3rd - it would seem no matter what I did, when I would check the breakaway torque it just never seemed right - it would be super high. With two discs, it seemed about right - 60ft lbs. Others have told me that they will use two new clutch discs and maybe one used disc and this way they get it to feel about right. That seems a little off to me though, so I just ended up going back to stock configuration with two fresh discs and dog plates. What I am guessing is most folks don't check it and it probably would have broken in ok once on the car with 3 discs, but was curious what others do.

I have to pull the differential sometime soon for a flange seal, so I can check then. It's broken in for sure by now. I didn't check then. If I don't forget, I'll post back with it. It won't be anytime VERY soon, but this summer sometime. Too many projects on 3 cars.

[jonb94118]

I have to pull the differential sometime soon for a flange seal, so I can check then. It's broken in for sure by now. I didn't check then. If I don't forget, I'll post back with it. It won't be anytime VERY soon, but this summer sometime. Too many projects on 3 cars.

Much appreciated - you can actually check the same thing by raising one rear wheel off the ground, put it in neutral, and then using a torque wrench on the other side, check how many ft/lbs of torque it requires to move the wheel - this will tell you what the breakaway torque is for the discs to start slipping. Healthy is usually 50 ft/lbs and over I believe - in a stock sort of configuration. Mine with two fresh discs measures @60 after having run it for a bit. I would be curious what a 3 disc setup reads.

[DaveAZ]

My solution to adapt the 14mm ring gear bolt holes down to 12mm for the holes on my 3.46 ring gear:





Custom machined by Blue Chip Tool in Blue Ash, OH from 4140 preheat treated steel. Cost me $110 + tax.

I torqued my ring gear bolts to 110ft-lbs with Loctite 271.

Instead of having custom spacers machined, I spent $12.32 by using m12-1.75 threaded inserts. I had to cut them to length, but they have the same ID and OD as your spacers. They have been in my diff and problem-free for 3 or 4 years of hard driving.
I think they were these:
http://www.fastenal.com/web/products...Id=&rfqLineId=

[truthbtold]

Great info here. My 3.15 lsd, wiggled out 2 allen bolts, and locked the diff while I was driving 45.

[sjpgoalie]

Great info here. My 3.15 lsd, wiggled out 2 allen bolts, and locked the diff while I was driving 45.

So...you're wheels completely locked up? You didn't lose it??

[truthbtold]

they did and thankfully I was driving in a straight line. If I was in a turn, it wouldn't have been such a happy ending.

- - - Updated - - -

Help. Trying to take pinion/input shaft apart and can't for the life of me get a socket on the collar nut holding on the flange. I've tried about every size and can't find a reference that calls it out...........................Anyone? Never mind...it's a 30mm thin walled

[Matracer]

Just to make sure:

Please confirm that you check the preloads (carrier and pinion) without the seals.

Thanks!

[wanganstyle]

Just to make sure:

Please confirm that you check the preloads (carrier and pinion) without the seals.

Thanks!

Please hunt down the BMW TIS manual for e30m3. It will outline this procedure with specifics.

[Matracer]

Please hunt down the BMW TIS manual for e30m3. It will outline this procedure with specifics.

All the links I found are dead... Do someone has it and could send it to me?...by wetransfer....if yes, PM me please.

Thanks!

Edit: Looked deeper and realized that the TIS is a program that must be installed on your PC...Will buy on Ebay