cylinder #3 has water, hydro locked..HELP!!

[Sapote]

(sorry I mistakenly had posted this on Common Prob, DIY Fixed before)

bought new, well cared, no abused 2000 323i auto, 90k miles, replaced tranny 2 yrs ago @ 65k miles (the infamous no reverse gear) by dealer for $6.5K, expansion tank ruptured 4 yrs ago.

This morning my wife called from work said it lost power. I got there try restart the engine: starter worked but can't turn. I guessed water inside cylinder caused locked up. I removed all spark plugs, found #3 wet with water. I then cranked to pump water out. Drove it home without #3 plug+coil limping at 5mph since ECU retard ignition or whatever when it detected bad #3. I plan to pull the head out to check if head gasket or cracked head. Need advice on:
1) shop near Burbank 91501
2) where to buy new head if needed+ machine shop if transfer valves, cam.
3) link info on process to head removal

Thanks in advance
Sapote

[danewilson77]

Why do you immediately think hydrolock? What did she do to the poor Bimmer?

[Sapote]

Why do you immediately think hydrolock? What did she do to the poor Bimmer?

I didn't think or guess, I found water in the combusion chamber after I could not crank the engine over. Empty the water out, and it cranked and fired up. What do you call this? not hydro locked?

My wife didn't pay much attention to the instrument indicator, and so I think the cooland was dried up and overheated the head. I don't know a blew head gasket (I wish) or cracked head (pray not).

[dworthy]

Pitty for the wagon, if you can, re-toque the head bolts to make sure you can remove the head. If you get one of them that cannot, start looking for a new motor.
But if you can, pull the head and inspect the head gasket, you will see if it blew or not when you inspect it. If it looks like the head is bad, try to find a machine shop and have it pressure tested. A good shop can repair the crack, but it you don't feel comfortable with that, look at the bmrpart.com for a used head.

[telijah]

Can't help ya find a shop in your area, but if you find a shop that even claims to be able to remove the head, they should also be able to transfer head parts if you replace the head. That being said, this is a high amount of labor hours on the books to remove the heads on these engines, so look to pay quite a bit just to even remove the head. I can probably get the info for removing the head for you if you plan to do it yourself from AllData.

[newtoe46]

I have learned not to give, buy or let drive a used BMW particularly an e46 for you wife/daughter or let your non-mechanically enclined girlfriend drive it. It makes me cringe since most of the e46 around my area seem to be driven by clue-less female drivers... This will happen to all of them as the miles creep up and they overheat their sub 100k miles engines... oh well....

More salvage parts for all of us!!!

[Sapote]

Can't help ya find a shop in your area, but if you find a shop that even claims to be able to remove the head, they should also be able to transfer head parts if you replace the head. That being said, this is a high amount of labor hours on the books to remove the heads on these engines, so look to pay quite a bit just to even remove the head. I can probably get the info for removing the head for you if you plan to do it yourself from AllData.

I plan to diy method; I’m familiar with these straight 6; I own 3.0CS and 3.0 CSi coupe’ and worked on them my self. Worked on Porsche 912 and its 5 speed box – swap gears, convert 4 speed to 5-speed…

But yes, instruction and spec, wisdoms, advices, would help me greatly.

Does anybody know for sure that the new oem head, if I need to buy, have the valve guides and seats already installed? I have conflicted info from my source supplier (not) and the dealer (installed). its around $2500 for the new ?head alone!!

Thanks

[liquiddawn]

I'm sorry about the situation but I can help with a shop. This guy did my entire cooling system and all belts and pulleys. He had my car done in 4 hours and did an awesome job and it was for an awesome price. Shop's name is Mike's Alignment. It's near Studio City. You take the Sherman Way exit off of the 101.

[Tom D]

……. I’m familiar with these straight 6; I own 3.0CS and 3.0 CSi coupe’ and worked on them my self.

those cars have M30 engines and quite different then the M52T (double vanos?) in this car.

here's a link that follows the changing of a head gasket. his was a M54, but the procedure is the same.

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...ht=head+gasket

[Sapote]

I'm sorry about the situation but I can help with a shop. This guy did my entire cooling system and all belts and pulleys. He had my car done in 4 hours and did an awesome job and it was for an awesome price. Shop's name is Mike's Alignment. It's near Studio City. You take the Sherman Way exit off of the 101.

I know Mike; he installed the tires for all my cars -- great guy. I didn't know he also works on engine?
Thanks

[Sapote]

those cars have M30 engines and quite different then the M52T (double vanos?) in this car.

here's a link that follows the changing of a head gasket. his was a M54, but the procedure is the same.

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...ht=head+gasket

thank you so much for the link. btw, these are the "beautiful rare onclassic '73 and 74 3.0 coupe' (E39 if I remember), not those common '80 3.5, 3.8 csi though.

[Tom D]

^ i love those E9s. back in the day i lusted to have one, but they were well beyond my reach. i saw this at laguna seca raceway a few years ago.

[Sapote]

Pitty for the wagon, if you can, re-toque the head bolts to make sure you can remove the head. If you get one of them that cannot, start looking for a new motor.
But if you can, pull the head and inspect the head gasket, you will see if it blew or not when you inspect it. If it looks like the head is bad, try to find a machine shop and have it pressure tested. A good shop can repair the crack, but it you don't feel comfortable with that, look at the bmrpart.com for a used head.

I had read the tech bulleting about retorque to check the block's pulled thread issue, but unclear to me though. Should I loosen all the bolts, then torque back to 40NM, then 90 deg torque turns? can i reuse the old ones for this test, or new bolts? since these are stretch bolt, meaning retorque at 40NM, 90 will give less pull tension as the new bolts, so the test tension is invalid?

[Tom D]

the block is aluminum and when the engine is overheated the treads will be pulled. if the thermal expansion is great enough, it will pull the treads out and the bolts will spin and not hold a torque. so no, all you have to do is see if they hold a torque.

[Sapote]

the block is aluminum and when the engine is overheated the treads will be pulled. if the thermal expansion is great enough, it will pull the treads out and the bolts will spin and not hold a torque. so no, all you have to do is see if they hold a torque.

ok, so what if it hold the torque (40NM?) during the test, and after biting the bullet buying the $2500 new head, and during final assembly it will not hold the 90 deg turn torque?

also, do i need the special bmw E12 torx socket for the bolts, or just any e12 torx will do?

Thanks

[telijah]

If you mean the head bolts, I think you just needed a really long one.

[mdfiasco]

the block is aluminum and when the engine is overheated the treads will be pulled. if the thermal expansion is great enough, it will pull the treads out and the bolts will spin and not hold a torque. so no, all you have to do is see if they hold a torque.

oh, that statement makes me sick to my stomach.

Good luck dude.

[dworthy]

ok, so what if it hold the torque (40NM?) during the test, and after biting the bullet buying the $2500 new head, and during final assembly it will not hold the 90 deg turn torque?

also, do i need the special bmw E12 torx socket for the bolts, or just any e12 torx will do?

Thanks

Yes, back it off until the bolts are loose, ie 180 degrees. Once all are loose, re-toque to specs you have listed previous. No I don't think you need a special tool, but when the time comes and the thread are confirmed good, make sure you get new head bolts.
Good luck and I too have been a fan of the E-9! I think once I retire from the Army and won't be moving around anymore, I will start looking at getting one!

[crawlingwallz]

DAMN man, im very sorry to hear this, hopefully you can find someone to fix her up for cheap for you

[waehrik]

Yes, back it off until the bolts are loose, ie 180 degrees. Once all are loose, re-toque to specs you have listed previous. No I don't think you need a special tool, but when the time comes and the thread are confirmed good, make sure you get new head bolts.
Good luck and I too have been a fan of the E-9! I think once I retire from the Army and won't be moving around anymore, I will start looking at getting one!

The only problem is that he won't be able to retorque the head back to factory specs since it requires 40NM + 90 degrees + 90 degrees. The head bolts will stretch per their design, thus a recommended 20 minute wait between torque stages. The +90 +90 (use a torque angle gauge!) will leave each head bolt at a different final torque, so just loosening each bolt and retorquing to an arbitrary value won't tell you if your threads are stripped unless they're really bad.

Ask me how I know. I bought a 2000 328i for cheap knowing it had a blown head gasket (blowing white smoke out the exhaust and the temp gauge would start to climb). I checked the head bolts before disassembly by loosening them and retorquing each to 60NM, a safe but optimistic number. They all held. But on reassembly cylinder 5 stripped each of its four surrounding holes during the second 90 degree rotation. I installed Time-Serts in each of the 14 holes on the block in case they had been weakened. Now it's running great with over 1k since the rebuild.

You don't need a special tool to remove the head or camshafts (check the DIY at Pelican Parts for that - it worked for me). But you definitely will for reassembly. It's impossible to time the double VANOS without the tools. I had to buy the set myself to get it right.

[Tom D]

……..do i need the special bmw E12 torx socket for the bolts, or just any e12 torx will do?

E12 torx is a E12 torx, but it's hard to get around the camshaft on a few of the bolts and that's why there's a special socket.

i bought one mail ordered for fairly cheap. i think the vendor is mentioned in that tread by 4bus i linked above.

[waehrik]

E12 torx is a E12 torx, but it's hard to get around the camshaft on a few of the bolts and that's why there's a special socket.

i bought one mail ordered for fairly cheap. i think the vendor is mentioned in that tread by 4bus i linked above.

Any E12 will fit the bolt head, but the ones you buy at Advance Auto, etc will not fit into the camshaft recess. But you can buy one of those for cheap and take it to a machine shop to have it turned down on a lathe if you need it really quick.

[Hornung418]

The only problem is that he won't be able to retorque the head back to factory specs since it requires 40NM + 90 degrees + 90 degrees. The head bolts will stretch per their design, thus a recommended 20 minute wait between torque stages. The +90 +90 (use a torque angle gauge!) will leave each head bolt at a different final torque, so just loosening each bolt and retorquing to an arbitrary value won't tell you if your threads are stripped unless they're really bad.

Ask me how I know. I bought a 2000 328i for cheap knowing it had a blown head gasket (blowing white smoke out the exhaust and the temp gauge would start to climb). I checked the head bolts before disassembly by loosening them and retorquing each to 60NM, a safe but optimistic number. They all held. But on reassembly cylinder 5 stripped each of its four surrounding holes during the second 90 degree rotation. I installed Time-Serts in each of the 14 holes on the block in case they had been weakened. Now it's running great with over 1k since the rebuild.

You don't need a special tool to remove the head or camshafts (check the DIY at Pelican Parts for that - it worked for me). But you definitely will for reassembly. It's impossible to time the double VANOS without the tools. I had to buy the set myself to get it right.

Quoted for awesomeness! I would like to clarify the torque process of the head bolts. You initially torque it to the specified rating, then you turn it 90 degrees, plus another 90 degrees regardless of torque value. Am I understanding correctly?

[Tom D]

do a online search for the E12. i paid $18.30 online and you can get it at sears for $27.99.

[Tom D]

..I would like to clarify the torque process of the head bolts. You initially torque it to the specified rating, then you turn it 90 degrees, plus another 90 degrees regardless of torque value. Am I understanding correctly?

yes.