Mercedes 190E 2.3-16 vintage racer build (pic heavy)

[M3Alpine99]

This is awesome!

[HR393rs]

this is so cool. Ive always wanted an evoII ever since i saw one. Europeans get all the fun cars

[propcar]

love that car... very nice so far.

[m42werke]

Nice build.... I just picked up mine the other day it needs a lot of work but I'm happy with it.

[lithium726]

Thought I might contribute a bit: I too have a 2.3-16 and I had a cracked rear subframe. It seems that this issue is not unique to BMW and is typical of ignored, poorly maintained cars.

Pics of mine after being all welded up:



Cracked side:


passenger side:


as you can see, we welded up all the empty space between the members causing stress concentrations and gusseted the thing to prevent future failures.

While he was at it, I also had him weld the front diff mount nut onto the subframe so I didn't have to deal with wrenches and zero clearance anymore...

IMO, it would probably be a better idea to pull yours and reinforce it, vs buying a whole new subframe.

[das borgen]

very cool stuff

[MikeLenoch5]

Growing up, I thought Mercedes were superior to BMWs, because that's all my parents had and I didn't know that the E30 existed. Now I know the truth.

[lithium726]

Growing up, I thought Mercedes were superior to BMWs, because that's all my parents had and I didn't know that the E30 existed. Now I know the truth.

it's actually funny, hanging out at Mercedes forums. They all seem to think BMW is a second class company compared to MB.... delusional.

[MikeLenoch5]

it's actually funny, hanging out at Mercedes forums. They all seem to think BMW is a second class company compared to MB.... delusional.

Naturally, we all think the precise opposite.

[Emre]

Growing up, I thought Mercedes were superior to BMWs, because that's all my parents had and I didn't know that the E30 existed. Now I know the truth.

That strikes me as a bit mean spirited (or at least unnecessarily unpleasant) given the context.

I love E30s as much as the next guy. I've owned my 318is since new and I had a nice 325ix that I loved. My dad had 2 or 3 E30s he bought new as well. Great cars. But there's a reason why I've been pouring time and money into this project over the last 2 years or so...and it's not because I'm a crazed Merc fanboi who fails to see what a POS this thing is. I have my reasons.

[lithium726]

Naturally, we all think the precise opposite.

I would wager that most enthusiasts have appreciation for most brands. BMW and MB have different design philosophies and different engineering goals, but that doesn't make either a second class company.

Like Emre, I'm a huge BMW fan... but there's a reason I'm pouring my cash into my 190E.

[MikeLenoch5]

In case anyone's looking to do what the OP is, only with a lot more work, here's your answer.

http://milwaukee.craigslist.org/cto/2891062513.html

I would wager that most enthusiasts have appreciation for most brands. BMW and MB have different design philosophies and different engineering goals, but that doesn't make either a second class company.

Like Emre, I'm a huge BMW fan... but there's a reason I'm pouring my cash into my 190E.

I'm realizing that as well. Mercedes are heavier and more luxurious, while BMWs are slightly lighter and sportier. With Mercedes, you don't feel as connected to the road. I feel like I'm in a La-Z-Boy chair rather than the driver's seat, but I'm sure that's different with the 190E given its racing history.

That strikes me as a bit mean spirited (or at least unnecessarily unpleasant) given the context.

I love E30s as much as the next guy. I've owned my 318is since new and I had a nice 325ix that I loved. My dad had 2 or 3 E30s he bought new as well. Great cars. But there's a reason why I've been pouring time and money into this project over the last 2 years or so...and it's not because I'm a crazed Merc fanboi who fails to see what a POS this thing is. I have my reasons.

No disrespect! I'm just in love with BMWs and even though there may be things better or just as good, I stand by the marque.

I would definitely pay good money for a 190E as a DD! (After all it does fit my criteria for cars; RWD and German).

[RPColetrain]

Any updates?

[Emre]

Any updates?

Yes. Just did some head work. Replaced the timing chain and guides. Had the valve timing adjusted, which meant all new shims. Some of the shims had to be machined down to the perfect size:





Had the valve cover powder-coated. They managed to match the factory paint color:



Also, I bought another set of Evo I alloys (16x8" ET34). I gave up trying to make 17" wheels work for now. The combination of Evo II brakes (300mm rotors; 4-piston Brembo calipers) and stock fenders is simply causing too much headache. That really limits my tire choices: not much available in 225/45-R16 these days. I picked up a set of Yoko A048 tires. I know these are hardly the best R-comps around, but they're the best I can do for now. I'll revisit 17x9" wheels after the season is over.

Finally, I've started working on fabbing some plates to mount my SPA GT mirrors. I'll admit this is race-car bling, but I like the look!

[DoormanMN]

I'm beating a dead horse here...But I LOVE those 190 and M3 era DTM's!!!! MAN ALIVE I LOVE THOSE VIDEOS!!!!!!!

[RPColetrain]

There's a fastener company out here in Garden Grove, CA. They're called Hillco Fastener. They stock a ton of ARP stainless and chrome-moly nuts and bolts in 12 point and hex. If you ever need to upgrade the fasteners in the engine BTW I have a set of head studs for that motor if you want to upgrade.

What is the spring rate you're using on your coil-over system?

Very professional looking 190 you have there, keep up the good work.

[Beast M3]

now i wanna do this to my 16v!

OP, would you happen to know a place where i can get the evo 1 flares, spoiler, and front lip?

[Emre]

OP, would you happen to know a place where i can get the evo 1 flares, spoiler, and front lip?

You can get them trough the dealer or the Classic Center, but you'll need a VIN.

Team Stadler makes high-quality Evo I and Evo II body kits: look for "Karosserieteile." The price is quite steep.

There's a small shop in Estonia that used to make Evo I kits. I've never seen one, but people seem happy with the quality. Again, not cheap when you factor in shipping and duties. Not to mention the cost to install, which involves cutting into the unibody.

[Beast M3]

You can get them trough the dealer or the Classic Center, but you'll need a VIN.

Team Stadler makes high-quality Evo I and Evo II body kits: look for "Karosserieteile." The price is quite steep.

There's a small shop in Estonia that used to make Evo I kits. I've never seen one, but people seem happy with the quality. Again, not cheap when you factor in shipping and duties. Not to mention the cost to install, which involves cutting into the unibody.

Thanks, i'll look into it.

Good luck with the rest of your build.

[bimmerdriver99]

Great Car! This is the car that got me hooked on driving fast and doing track days. Before I bought my e36 M3 a while back, my moms friend gave me a ride along WOT in his track prepped Merc 190E. He had full suspension, full slick tires, gutted and racing seats ect.

The car was a machine on the track, handled like a roller coaster. It was an amazing ride.

[biglou911]

Did you ever dynoed this car ? I'm curious ?

[Emre]

Did you ever dynoed this car ? I'm curious ?

Don't hold your breath! This is the stock US-market (low-compression) engine, which is only good for 165 hp or so. We have a Euro engine coming in. That will get cams and we'll get rid of the horrid intake and mechanical fuel injection. Hopefully, we'll break 200 hp and finally be able to run with a nicely prepped and well-driven E30 M3.

[lithium726]

Don't hold your breath! This is the stock US-market (low-compression) engine, which is only good for 165 hp or so. We have a Euro engine coming in. That will get cams and we'll get rid of the horrid intake and mechanical fuel injection. Hopefully, we'll break 200 hp and finally be able to run with a nicely prepped and well-driven E30 M3.

The US and Euro KAT engine were the same - and the ECE didn't have much more power, are you going with an ECE 2.3 or a 2.5/evo motor? Keeping the 3.23 US Spec diff? Deleting the cats?

[Emre]

The US and Euro KAT engine were the same - and the ECE didn't have much more power, are you going with an ECE 2.3 or a 2.5/evo motor?

It's an '86 ECE. Slightly higher compression ratio: 10.5 vs. 9.7

The plan is to swap in 2.5 cams and replace the intake/throttle/CIS with ITB+EFI (or twin Weber DCOEs). I wanted a spare engine to build and this one came up locally.

Keeping the 3.23 US Spec diff? Deleting the cats?

US diff is lower geared than the Euro 5-speed diff, so I'm keeping it. Anyway, we rebuilt it last year and increased the lock-up. So it's in great shape.

[lithium726]

US diff is lower geared than the Euro 5-speed diff, so I'm keeping it. Anyway, we rebuilt it last year and increased the lock-up. So it's in great shape.

Would you mind providing details on your diff rebuild? I just *happen* to have a spare, tired 3.23 diff in my storage unit that I intend to rebuild, but there's not a whole lot of info out there.

What itbs are you going with? Hyabusas? Also something on my list... Unfortunately my motor is losing quite a bit of compression past the piston rings and that needs to be addressed before any intake mods.