Oil consumption after CCV replacement

[dworthy]

Yes, it does work if you attach the hose.

Now what I would suggest to add to this is you take some ATF, doesn't matter what type, and drop it into the oil. Drive about 100km to 150km to get it into the motor, just keep the RPM's down around 3k during this time. Next change the oil and filter to get the old dirty oil out as the ATF will clean all the gunk out of your motor.

So with the combo of the two I have typically get about 5000km before it uses a liter of oil. It is the extended oil changes and the lack of extra vacuum that causes these issues IMO.

Lastly since you do live in a cold weather area, just make sure you get the right CCV kit, see attached.

[alentje]

Yes, it does work if you attach the hose.

Now what I would suggest to add to this is you take some ATF, doesn't matter what type, and drop it into the oil. Drive about 100km to 150km to get it into the motor, just keep the RPM's down around 3k during this time. Next change the oil and filter to get the old dirty oil out as the ATF will clean all the gunk out of your motor.

So with the combo of the two I have typically get about 5000km before it uses a liter of oil. It is the extended oil changes and the lack of extra vacuum that causes these issues IMO.

Lastly since you do live in a cold weather area, just make sure you get the right CCV kit, see attached.

I have heard about the insulated version. So my best option would be to get a new CCV? I thought that it had no use because vacuum is always applied by the extra hose, and by opening and closing the membrane nothing is changed because maximum vacuum is already supplied constantly.

In the extra vacuum hose I am starting to see some oil that's getting into the intake, I doubt that this could be fixed entirely without a catch can.

I am starting to lean towards the catch can setup again, as it will provide full vacuum with apparently no risk of freezing and pulling all the oil up from the dipstick drain.

I was also advised not to open the oil cap with the engine running with 02pilot's mod, because it would also pull all the oil up from the drain and flood the intake. Is this true?

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[02Pilot]

Go back and reread the whole thread. There's nothing in there about not pulling off the fill cap (at least not from me), and I can't understand how introducing a massive vacuum leak could increase vacuum. The danger of pulling the oil out of the pan into the intake comes from a blockage anywhere in the original plumbing (including the valve) that then causes high vacuum to be applied to the return line to the guide tube, lifting the oil through the tube and into the intake.

If you haven't replaced the whole CCV system - lines and valve - you're always likely to have problems. As noted repeatedly, you must have a properly sealed crankcase for this to work; if you don't you're going to end up pulling large amounts of air through, and with it considerable amounts of oil. If you're not sure, smoke test the crankcase and fix it as needed.

[dworthy]

Yes, and even more so if you do short trips/driving. Short trips/driving is under 10 minutes, as it takes at least 10 minutes for the car to warm up. Having been to Bosnia during the winter months, I have known for it to get quite cold there.

The extra line is installed on all the M52TU motors, but not the M54's which uses the same exact CCV. You have to ask yourself why is this? I am thinking it is a cost saving from BMW as well as a environmental thing, but that is just my guess. The line adds a small amount of extra vacuum to the diaphragm at higher RPM's when it's needed.

As for the second worry of extra oil in your intake, too late for that as some of the vapors being pulled from the CCV will have a bit of oil anyway. If you want to have a completely clean intake, then a catch-can will need to be used.

So then you have to ask yourself, is it worth the extra headache for a spotless intake track? I don't think it is worth the extra headache, as well as the cost for the catch can. Now I have seen a couple of member whom have installed one on their M-54's, and they do swear by them.

If your CCV is frozen, it can pull the oil from the oil pan up, and this would be a first time I have heard of it pulling oil up from the oil pan with the cap open.

[alentje]

Go back and reread the whole thread. There's nothing in there about not pulling off the fill cap (at least not from me), and I can't understand how introducing a massive vacuum leak could increase vacuum. The danger of pulling the oil out of the pan into the intake comes from a blockage anywhere in the original plumbing (including the valve) that then causes high vacuum to be applied to the return line to the guide tube, lifting the oil through the tube and into the intake.

If you haven't replaced the whole CCV system - lines and valve - you're always likely to have problems. As noted repeatedly, you must have a properly sealed crankcase for this to work; if you don't you're going to end up pulling large amounts of air through, and with it considerable amounts of oil. If you're not sure, smoke test the crankcase and fix it as needed.

I have read the whole thread earlier, but I saw some comments on the 50skid vide regarding this mod. I have attached pictures.

I completely understand how the oil is usually pulled, when the hose going to the valve cover is blocked completely, vacuum is applied directly to the drain hose going to the dipstick, pulling oil into the intake. But I am trying to understand why this has happened to two cars?



My car is in perfect shape, no cutting corners on this one. New oil pan gasket, valve cover gasket and oil filter housing gasket, absolutely no signs of oil on the engine. What I feel is that the vacuum is not as strong as it used to be from day 1, but we can only guess and the best thing to do is to first change all the hoses like you said

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[alentje]

AFAIK the hose on the M52TU is used for the fuel regulator? Correct me if I'm wrong.

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[02Pilot]

In a sealed crankcase the vacuum will be much higher than stock with the mod, so if yours is lower something is wrong. If you haven't changed the CCV system I'd venture to guess that's the likely culprit.

As far as the two examples given, that's the first mention I've seen of this. I cannot envision a circumstance in which creating a large vacuum leak in one place would suddenly increase vacuum at another point in the system. Without knowing the conditions of these engines there are too many variables to speculate. And who needs to pull their oil cap off while the engine is running anyway?

[alentje]

Exactly, there's no way the oil could be pulled up by removing the oil cap, I thought about it for a very long time unable to understand these examples. I just thought I missed something.

Prior to the mod I remember removing the oil cap with the engine running, then sealing the oil filler with my hand, I can't recall if it was pressure or vacuum, either way it was very very small. Now after turning the engine off and removing the oil cap there is a huge swoosh, the oil cap even stays on snugly because of the effect of vacuum.

I can't say anything further because the valve cover hose is pretty dirty on the inside as far as I could see on the top where it meets the VC. I'm replacing the whole system as soon as I get some spare time.

Do you still have your 525i? Does it still consume oil or did it get away totally?

[02Pilot]

I do not still have the car. I ran it with the mod in place for ~60k miles; in that time I never added a drop of oil (regular changes at 5k miles, 0w40). A buddy ran the car for another ~30k miles after me, and as far as I know it never used any oil during that time either.

In my opinion, the key is to have a properly sealed crankcase. I was pulling over 10 inHg (or 250 mmHg) of vacuum at times, which would not have been possible with leaks.

[alentje]

I do not still have the car. I ran it with the mod in place for ~60k miles; in that time I never added a drop of oil (regular changes at 5k miles, 0w40). A buddy ran the car for another ~30k miles after me, and as far as I know it never used any oil during that time either.

In my opinion, the key is to have a properly sealed crankcase. I was pulling over 10 inHg (or 250 mmHg) of vacuum at times, which would not have been possible with leaks.

Great to hear that the problem was fixed entirely, unbelieveable. After I change the CCV system I will continue to report here what my results are.

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[530e39]

Any long term results here? I had a 530 with severe oil burning problem, and 02pilot mod reduced it down quite a bit. After 1 1/2 year, bearings went kaput and motor seized. This mod has shown to reduce oil pressure, so it could be related or not. I have another 530 that doesnt burn oil, but i did the mod just for preventive measures. Needless to say, I put the vacuum caps back on.

[02Pilot]

There's plenty of long-term results here, and you're the first one reporting an oil-related failure. If you're going to pop in here and drop a declaration that "(t)his mod has shown to reduce oil pressure," you'd damn well better have some objective empirical evidence to back it up. I'm waiting....

[bmwdirtracer]

Don't be ridiculous, 530E39...There is no possible way that this mod can reduce oil pressure ! There is ZERO connection to pressurized oil ! Your claim is ABSOLUTE NONSENSE !

I have this mod running on two customer's M54 cars, and it has cured the oil consumption issues of both. One has 245,000 miles; I put this mod on the system ~4 years ago, when the car had 150k miles. Oh, and I'm just about to buy this lovely, very well taken care of car, too!

[dworthy]

+1

Sounds more like the oil system is clogged, and that is at fault. Also this can happen from extended oil changes using unapproved oil, which either way it will sludge up the motor over time anyway.

[ax77]

would this mod work on a s52 engine? I don't think the ccv has an extra nipple.

[MIKYZZ4]

Any long term results here? I had a 530 with severe oil burning problem, and 02pilot mod reduced it down quite a bit. After 1 1/2 year, bearings went kaput and motor seized. This mod has shown to reduce oil pressure, so it could be related or not. I have another 530 that doesnt burn oil, but i did the mod just for preventive measures. Needless to say, I put the vacuum caps back on.

One failure(quite possibly unrelated at that)does not a trend make.
Read the entire 02pilot thread on the mod before making assumptions,please.

[2001E46330Ci]

I have owned my 2001 330Ci since 2008, was a CPO with 80,000 km at purchase. The oil consumption was always high, about 1liter/1500km using 5W50 weight synthetic (trying to reduce consumption). Most BMW owners I spoke with claimed this consumption was usual but I always thought it was way too high.
Two years ago I decided to troubleshoot the CCV and I found lots of oil in the intake manifold and lines. I decided to change the CCV and ordered a new one from BMW. I dismantled the old valve and found very little wrong with it,the diaphragm was intact, no rips and not rotted out. The hose up to the intake manifold was dripping oil but intact, the hose from the valve cover was oily but not dripping and intact. The hose to the dipstick was intact and completely dry and oil-free inside. It appeared no oil had been returning to the oil pan for a long time. I removed the oil dipstick and checked the oil drainage passages, all were clear, no blockages. The oil in the crankcase blowby gases was just being sucked into the intake and burnt.
I believe the CCV was defective from new and wasn't sure I wanted to install another one that may end up the same way. Anyone who has replaced the CCV once probably wouldn't want to repeat it either.
I opted to install an oil catch can(Qiilu available on Amazon $53.99Cdn). It has 5/8" nipples and no sight/level gauge. I didn't really want a level gauge because with the amount of oil going through it I didn't want to be bothered draining it daily/weekly depending on the miles driven. Instead I drilled and installed a 3/8" nipple in the bottom of the can and routed the 3/8 hose (through a check valve, Amazon, Yosoo 3/8" one way non return valve) to the oil dipstick drain-hose fitting.The check valve is to prevent any oil from being sucked out of the oil pan.
I installed a PCV valve( Fram FV345, Amazon) in the vertical portion of the line returning to the intake manifold from the oil catch can. It should be installed vertically to function correctly.
$100 for the catch can parts and hoses compared to $250 from BMW for the original failure prone CCV , plus this modification can be done in a fraction of the time while leaving the original CCV in place! I removed mine as I was replacing the OFHG, which allows great access to the CCV.
BMW sells a new oil dipstick with larger, less likely to plug up, drainage holes, I would have replaced that also but only heard about it afterwards.
The car has been driven 2 years and 20,000 km since the modification with no top ups required between oil changes, I am also using 5-40 oil now. It has 170,000 km on the odometer now.
While the engine is idling removing the oil filler cap shows a slight suction , I haven't used a manometer to check the vacuum/pressure in the crankcase yet. With no more oil consumption I haven't bothered, maybe one day...

[mry82]

Sounds great! Nice setup. I have been happy with the G.A.S. CCV so far; my car used some oil, but not a lot... I did top up a time or two between changes. It may be reduced (I have not topped up since my last oil change), but I need more miles on it before saying for sure. Best wishes!

[IkkenE36]

Fellow Bimmer drivers, especially 02Pilot and bmwdirtracer,

I have read this topic until the end and I must say it made me happy to see there were so many posts keeping this alive and as well investigating the issue, it was a long way. It made me read and study about how crankcase pressures actually work in a working engine. Huge kudos to 02Pilot and bmwdirtracer :-)
I started reading the topic because my old little E36 had to have a swap and I chose an EU M52B25 - the engine spec for 23i with single vanos. The engine is working OK and does it's job without any issues meaning no smoke, hesitation, any abnormal noise, I am pretty happy with it.
Except one thing. It does consume not too much, but a bit of oil, about 1-2L (quarts) of oil on 10kkms or 6k miles using 5w-40 with 3.72hths and around 13.5 viscosity at 100C. It also stinks a bit. Now I know this is nothing too much to be worried about but there is one additional thing. As my old engine was an M50, and due to the fact that I trackday the poor thing now and then I wanted to go with the M50b25 big manifold (with no CCV connection) which I had before on my old engine.
To accomodate this, I went with deleting the CCV valve, blocking the oil return to the dipstick, filtering the crankcase gas coming out of the head and leaving it as is. This way there is only positive crankcase ventilation going on, I have noticed that after I leave the car to rest, usually there is pretty much vacuum on the dipstick and on the oil fill cap as well (on trackdays sometimes I need to try very hard to take the fill cap off being a 250 pounds guy)
One other thing, when I leave the car for 2 days, and I try to check my oil level, upon the initial dipstick pullout, the oil level is usually on the metal part of the dipstick, 2-3 inches above max (I suppose due to the vacuum), of course when I put it back and try to get a reading my reading goes back to normal.
After reading this topic I am a bit hesitant to think whether my valve stem seals are going home or I shall create an oil catch can and route the crankcase gas back to the intake rubber boot. That said, when idling the biggest vacuum should be in the manifold itself, I believe the rubber boot experiences smaller vacuum, or am I wrong here? If the vacuum in the rubber boot is significantly lower, then I would gain something close to nothing.
If I have some flaws in my reasoning/logic and you have any kind of advice or hint for me, I would appreciate it!
Thank you!

[02Pilot]

I don't fully understand the setup you have on your engine currently, so it's difficult for me to comment. I can say that no matter how much vacuum you are pulling, it shouldn't be that hard to pull the fill cap off, and the oil shouldn't be pulled up the dipstick. The valve seals won't add vacuum if they're leaking, they'll reduce it.

If you can post a simple description of the current arrangement, and maybe a photo or two, it would be helpful. It's also worth putting a gauge on it to see just how much vacuum you are drawing.

[Skatecrete]

@02Pilot
I would just like to ask something that i have not seen yet, for I have read this forum quite extensively. Im also sorry to carry this on even though you have sold the original modded vehicle.

With the new Cold Climate Guid Tube, No Vaccuum Leaks, Fresh CCV System Lines, and your clever mod; Would one way check valves be a good "just-incase" measure anywhere in the CCV Lines or Guide Tube connection?

[02Pilot]

Not a problem. On first thought, the only place a one-way valve would provide any additional security would be in the connection to the guide tube. There is could prevent oil being sucked out of the pan and into the intake. I didn't find this an issue, but should it happen it would get bad quickly with all the vacuum the mod creates. Shouldn't be hard to add in, and I can't think of any obvious downside off the top of my head (though that's not to say one may not exist that would be revealed in testing).

[Skatecrete]

In that case, I will place one off the guide tube and test the pressure in a few weeks to see if theres any changes. Will see if theres any build up or issues on the one-way valve as well, and report back here my results.

I spent hours reading much into this and can say im officially a fan of your candid work. Thanks for all the time you put into this while remaining respondent to issues that arose through the years. Cheers!

[Dave1027]

Been a while since I've stopped by but I think I have an important discovery about the 02Pilot mod.

I had been using the mod for a couple of years and almost forgot I had it. I installed it on a whim and thought the car ran better so I left it in. I did not install the mod because I had oil burning. I didn't and still don't, knock on wood. My M54 engine is an '06 and all along I thought my engine must have come with better piston rings or something because it never burned a drop. I installed the mod just to see how it would effect the general running of the engine. I never really quantified how it did.

Well, about a month ago the I removed the mod to see the actual difference and now I know for sure. My engine's cold idle is now rough and stumbling. Oh and I removed it properly, capping both vacuum ports. I'm probably going to be putting the mod back in soon. I don't like the engine that way and can only see the issue getting worse as we move into colder weather.

[treat44]

I had chronic issues that have ceased since I ran that Mod vacuum line.
It’s the fix.
Still use oil, but not nearly as much and my Replacement CCV has been in for a long tome now with no issues.


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