E39 Water into rear interior leak?

[lefebv19]

Hello all,

I recently purchased an e39 (2000) m5 2 months ago and I absolutly love it. On sunday the car saw its first big rain storm in which we got a total of 3 inches of rain from sunday into monday morning (lots of local flooding but the car was far from the serious areas). When I went to take the car out today and I was loading items into the back seat i noticed that the rear foot area was absolutly soaked with water. I had a hooded sweat shirt on the ground and it was completely saturated along with the carpet. I know I should do my due dilliegence before posting and have a friend with a garden hose soak the door seals and check for leaks but I was wondering if any of you fellow e39 owners have run into a similar experience and can give me any hints of weak areas that tend to leak more than others. I pulled up the back seat and there is no sign of water collecting there and I removed the door plugs and there was no real signs of clogging or water collecting. I did recently replace the rear suspension when I first got the car and had the door seals down but I placed them back in the original position and they seam to be making a good seal. Sorry, I know this is def a lenthy post. Any/all help will be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

[Vin M]

This is a very common problem...the vapor barriers inside the rear doors become unglued and allow water to enter the cabin at the bottom of the door panel...thus soaking the rear footwells.

You'll need to remove the door panel and reseal the vapor barrier.

My advice is to not only reseal the door that's leaking, but preemptively reseal the other doors as well...it's only a matter of time.

Btw, it's a common misconception that this only happens to the rear doors, but all 4 doors are subject to this defect...it just happens more often with the rear doors.

[lefebv19]

sorry if i sound like an idiot. but these vapor barriers, what do they look like? are they just pieces of weather stripping behind the door panel? Am i going to notice the weather stripping actually delaminating and showing signs of failure or is it something that you cannot actually tell is leaking and should just be resealed? Should i just order them from bmw or can they be salvaged (not trying to be a cheap ass just curious if i need a new gaskets)? I checked the pocket areas of the rear doors and they were dry does that make sense?

[AvusRacer]

They are foam barriers cut into the rough shap of the door. They attach to the door itself, between the door panel and window regulator. You will also need a roll of window weld, or DumDum as its commonly called. And yes, do both doors at the same time.

[bimmerfiver]

Someone needs to link you to the appropriate threads.

I believe...if you search in the e39 DIY Section above...it will ALL be in there.

I JUST did this repair last Friday.
Open door.
Take little plastic cover off the screw located in the CENTER of the inner DOOR HANDLE.
Use a T-20 TORX and REMOVE that screw.
With your hand starting at the bottom, pull OUT and hear the plastic clips POP, one by one.
Work your way around door and be SMOOTH, no Starsky and Hutch moves.
All will become LOOSE.
LIFT inner door face UP and OUT just a bit.
NOW disconnect the SPEAKER WIRE and the DOOR HANDLE MECHANISM (you can get away with leaving the door handle connected if you gently twist and lean the door face on the ground).
YOU WILL NOW SEE the infamous "VAPOR BARRIER"...it is 1/4" thick FOAM.
CAREFULLY PULL/PEEL THE ENTIRE VAPOR BARRIER OFF, use a blow dryer to HEAT UP areas that are stubborn and GET VAPOR BARRIER OFF CAR.
Now get a small paint scraper and HEAT THE END OF IT UP SO IT'S HOT.
SCRAPE all the OLD ADHESIVE LEFT ON THE DOOR'S METAL AREAS, the residue that sort-of held the VAPOR BARRIER in place. Remove it ALL.
Good.
Chill out.
Drink some ice tea and smoke a good cigar.

Round II:

Read this NOW:

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1089505

Then read post # 74 where I talk about the "3M Window Weld" with use in a caulking gun:

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...1089505&page=3

BUY THIS x 2 for $14.99 each at your local ADVANCED AUTO or PEP BOYS or ONLINE:

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_uoBi6q8YPvQ/S1...0Mounts-10.JPG

Episode III The Search For Spock:

LIBERALLY apply a BEAD of the "3M Window Weld" out of the gun in the EXACT PLACE and LINE where the OLD STUFF WAS.

Wait about 3 minutes time.
INSTALL the VAPOR BARRIER in the EXACT FASHION IT WAS and USE THE BUTT END OF THE PAINT SCRAPER AS A TYPE OF ROLLER TO PUSH ON THE VAPOR BARRIER AND MAKE IT CONNECT/STICK TO/ADHERE TO THE "3M WINDOW WELD."

Remain there for 5-10 minutes and continue to gently roll the entire circumference of the vapor barrier. Don't go NUTS with the PRESSURE as you'll force the "3M Window Weld" out, away from the vapor barrier and that is not the goal here. Be smooth dude.

I used the excess left in my caulking gun to make a very tiny bead all the way around the outer edge of the vapor barrier as an overboard move. It's cool, do it too.

Let it all dry for 30 minutes.

Then install the door in reverse fashion.

REPEAT ON THE OPPOSITE DOOR!
DO NOT BE A FOOL AND JUST DO THE ONE DOOR.
THE OTHER DOOR WILL LEAK TOO.
I used one entire 14 oz. "3M Window Weld" on one door....so buy two!

It rained about 3" a few weeks ago....I had about 1" of water on the passenger side.
I did the above procedure last Friday, it rained bigtime the next day.
My car is bone dry and I challenge Mother Nature to f*ck with me.

[camoore]

Go to NAPA and ask for "Glass setting butyl tape". This appears to be the same tape that is used with the vapor barrier. Do a search for Window Regulator DIY and you will see what we are talking about.

I did this fix over a year ago and have had no problems since.

Good luck

camoore

[lefebv19]

thanks for all the insight guys! It is raining pretty hard outside right now so I went out on my lunch break and took a look and the car is definetely leaking from behind the door panel at the base. I have been changing towels pretty regularly but it is hard to keep it dry with this weather and it leaking so bad. I am going to get my hands on a really good adhesive and make the repair this weekend when I have some free time. Thanks again for steering me in the right direction!

[Qsilver7]

thanks for all the insight guys! It is raining pretty hard outside right now so I went out on my lunch break and took a look and the car is definetely leaking from behind the door panel at the base. I have been changing towels pretty regularly but it is hard to keep it dry with this weather and it leaking so bad. I am going to get my hands on a really good adhesive and make the repair this weekend when I have some free time. Thanks again for steering me in the right direction!

A lot of the water is entering the door at the base of the window...so protecting that part of the window will help prevent the rear floor from getting soaked until you can fix the vapor barrier. You could cut a smaller strip of plastic and tape it (to the glass) near the lower edge of the window...again, you're trying to prevent water from running down the surface of the glass, then down into the cavity of the door where it's suppose to run to the drain holes...but in your case, with the failed VB, the water is being routed into the interior of the car instead of the drain holes in the bottom of the door.

If you attempt this...try not to put tape on ANY of the car's painted surfaces...you can remove any adhesive residue from the glass 1st with WD40...then Windex (or other glass/window cleaner).

[CheungWah]

Guess I wasn't the only one dealing with this issue with the torrential rains we've had this week.

Thanks for the info guys.

[bimmerfiver]

Lots of rain coming to the Northeast...

[rf900rkw]

When my rear footwell flooded, I read up on the issue. I then looked long and hard at the design of the rear doors. I came to the conclusion that for that much water to get into the footwell, the drains in the bottom of the door would have to be plugged and the door should slosh when opened. Neither was the case, so I turned my attention the climate control. The lowest part of the ducting happens to be under the front seats, right where the wetness is. I believe there are six separate drains for the climate control system. Two of mine, both on the side with the water, were plugged solid. I cleared all of the drains, and haven't had any water since.

[Vin M]

sorry if i sound like an idiot. but these vapor barriers, what do they look like? are they just pieces of weather stripping behind the door panel? Am i going to notice the weather stripping actually delaminating and showing signs of failure or is it something that you cannot actually tell is leaking and should just be resealed? Should i just order them from bmw or can they be salvaged (not trying to be a cheap ass just curious if i need a new gaskets)? I checked the pocket areas of the rear doors and they were dry does that make sense?

Sorry, I should've been more descriptive in my post last night...but it looks like bimmerfiver has it well covered.

[Kevin Da Clean1]

A lot of the water is entering the door at the base of the window...so protecting that part of the window will help prevent the rear floor from getting soaked until you can fix the vapor barrier. You could cut a smaller strip of plastic and tape it (to the glass) near the lower edge of the window...again, you're trying to prevent water from running down the surface of the glass, then down into the cavity of the door where it's suppose to run to the drain holes...but in your case, with the failed VB, the water is being routed into the interior of the car instead of the drain holes in the bottom of the door.

This is exactly what I had to do with my M5 for the first few months I had it. Before I was able to garage it we had some pretty bad rains here in California & I quickly found out the hard way that one of my drivers side rear VB was bad. The tape trick does work. Just make sure to buy some wide stuff from 3M. The wide painters tape worked for me. It was ugly to see that bright blue horizontal strip back there but it did it's job & i didn't have to spend 2-3 hours with a blow dryer the next day & tons of towel trying to dry the area... !

[BoltCD]

I also did this a few weeks ago, a double sided tacky tape worked great. no more leak.

[PDXBMW]

Just tackled this today on the passenger side rear. One thing not mentioned in the step by step above for removing the door panel. If you have window shades there is a small tab on the door panel that is screwed into the shade itself at the front side of the panel. You have to lift the panel at the top front off a clip then pull it back to access the screw. It had me befuddled for a few minutes before I looked at the side of the panel wondering what was holding it. It's hidden behind the window trim. The shade also makes it a bitch to get the panel back on and lined up with the clips that fit over the shade to hold the panel tight at the top edge.

I did the reheat and restick. Don't know how long it'll hold but it seems to be stuck well at the moment. I took the hose to it and it was nice and dry. I think the key is to clean the surfaces first with some rubbing alcohol to remove the dust and dirt. Then when heating the butyl rub it with your finger to get a "fresh" sticky surface on it. Also heating the vapor barrier to make a good bond and even pressure while it cools. A hair dryer was plenty of heat to soften everything up.

[GSA1]

OP
Head on over to Long Island. Ill help you out with those barriers. Other stuff you should probably look at too. Send a pm.

[bennette]

I wrote in another post about the range of electrical gremlins my '99 528 has succumbed too and my efforts to-date in trying to track down the culprit(s). I gave up and took it to the shop, who just informed me that my car is *flooded*. I had the water accumulate in the footwell, and removed it with a syringe (which you can actually stick ~2 inches below the footwell via the mat attachment hole - and find A LOT more water...), and was waiting to attempt this repair until I had exorcised the demons. Looks like the water may have been the culprit... I just hope my car can be saved.

Don't wait - do this repair this weekend!

[TribleB]

I am tackling this issue right now what is that metal piece with the black plastic around it in the middle of the door panel I can't seem to get it off so I can completely remove the vapor barrier?

[Qsilver7]

Front or back door? Was going to link you directly to the BMW TIS instructions that explain removal...but there's not enough info in your post to send you to the correct instructions.

Basically once you've gotten everything undone...you pull UPWARD on the door trim to remove it from off the clip and door. Once off, you can then pull that metal clip out (so that you don't lose it before putting the panel back on).

[TribleB]

rear passenger door I got the door panel off and the dissconnect all wires but there is metal stud in the middle of the door prevent me from peeling off the vapor barrier I might also need a heating gun to get the old glue up

Front or back door? Was going to link you directly to the BMW TIS instructions that explain removal...but there's not enough info in your post to send you to the correct instructions.

Basically once you've gotten everything undone...you pull UPWARD on the door trim to remove it from off the clip and door. Once off, you can then pull that metal clip out (so that you don't lose it before putting the panel back on).

[TribleB]

how do I get this off?

[TribleB]

If anyone out there can help me figure out how to get this off we are expecting another flash flooding in southern CT today I really don't want to cut around the vapor barrier to get if off my other alternative is to maybe just fold it up and clip the end so I can get the old adhesive off and apply the new one.

[MehMan]

I had a bit of a struggle with that one, but it's hold with tongs on the bottom and top. I took two screw drivers and pressed on the tongs and then pulled it off.

[TribleB]

I started playing around with that idea last night but it seems I needed a second set of hands to pull the black plastic while I pressed in the tongs with a screwdriver.

I had a bit of a struggle with that one, but it's hold with tongs on the bottom and top. I took two screw drivers and pressed on the tongs and then pulled it off.

[beemn e34]

I have the same problem, once i had a wet floor back left...(we steer on the right). But what i always have found was water would fill up under door sill, so iwould alsway have to flick the little rubber edge up to let it all out, pain in the arse. Am a little worried with removing the rear panels with air bags in them tho.....