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Thread: E91 FRM to FRM2?

  1. #1
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    E91 FRM to FRM2?

    I have a 2006 E91 (built in august 2006) and want to add Welcome Lights-function (lights on car unlock).

    After checking with NCS-EXPERT, there are no welcome light-labels in the FRM coding. As I understand it, the function exists in later versions of the FRM called FRM2 or FRM3 - my car has FRMFA (FRM1)

    I was able to source a FRM2-module from another E90. I imagined that it would be enough to;
    1. Replace the module
    2. Program and code the module using Progman (I have Progman V32).

    I connected the new module, ran Progman, chose "Load SW" and confirmed that the FRM had been replaced.

    However, Progman determined a measures plan stating that I now also needed to replace (not program) several other modules (including IHKA, CAS and DSC), which of course is out of the question.

    My question; is it possible to reprogram the FRM2 to work with all other modules of the car, and thus get the Welcome Lights function? Maybe using WinKFP and NCS-EXPERT? Since the FRM2 is from another vehicle, this would also involve programming the correct Vehicle Order, VIN etc.

    Help, anyone?

  2. #2
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    Your Profile says you are from Europe if you can speak German i can explain it to you via PN.
    I have made exactly what you want to do.
    This is to complicated for me in english.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4711 View Post
    Your Profile says you are from Europe if you can speak German i can explain it to you via PN.
    I have made exactly what you want to do.
    This is to complicated for me in english.
    German is not my mother tongue, but I have no problem understanding it.

    Es wäre echt toll wenn Sie es mir erklären könnten!

  4. #4
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    Can t send you PN ,you don t have enough Posts

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4711 View Post
    Can t send you PN ,you don t have enough Posts
    Hey,

    can you pls send PM also to me ???

    BR, M

  6. #6
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    @ffogami
    I hope you are familiar with NCS,toolset32,winkfp.
    And you know how to code with NCS and change VO etc. If not you have to read first the manuals flying around.
    Do you have communication between NCS and you FRM?Can you read it out?Have you allready changed VIN?
    Last edited by 4711; 02-28-2011 at 04:47 PM.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4711 View Post
    @ffogami
    I hope you are familiar with NCS,toolset32,winkfp.
    And you know how to code with NCS and change VO etc. If not you have to read first the manuals flying around.
    Do you have communication between NCS and you FRM?Can you read it out?Have you allready changed VIN?
    I am familiar with WinKFP and NCS, but not tool32. So far I have:
    - removed old FRM and installed FRM2
    - programmed FRM2 using WinKFP and entered my own VIN. Verified VIN change in FRM2 with Inpa and all seems OK.
    - Using NCS Expert I read VO from CAS and wrote it to new FRM using job FA_ SCHREIBEN. I now get correct VIN (FG) and VO (FA) from FRM in NCS Expert.

    I guessed next step was to do encoding (SG_CODIEREN) of new FRM using NCS Expert. Problem is that NCS Expert loads data files for old FRM (files named FRMFA.C09 etc). I would expect it to select files related to FRM2. How do I force coding with correct files?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by f00gami View Post
    I am familiar with WinKFP and NCS, but not tool32. So far I have:
    - removed old FRM and installed FRM2
    - programmed FRM2 using WinKFP and entered my own VIN. Verified VIN change in FRM2 with Inpa and all seems OK.
    - Using NCS Expert I read VO from CAS and wrote it to new FRM using job FA_ SCHREIBEN. I now get correct VIN (FG) and VO (FA) from FRM in NCS Expert.

    I guessed next step was to do encoding (SG_CODIEREN) of new FRM using NCS Expert. Problem is that NCS Expert loads data files for old FRM (files named FRMFA.C09 etc). I would expect it to select files related to FRM2. How do I force coding with correct files?
    Ok you are almost done.
    Now you only change FA Production Time to#0307 via FA_write but don t code it to the ecu.You only simulate it.Its enough that you can see the new #0307 in the main identification Screen
    Then ncs will show you if you try to read out again nfrm instead of FRM and you can code it like you want.
    And if you only use sg_codieren maybe with empty.man or that what you want.The FA isnt wrote with the new production time #0307
    But next time you have to do that again or write #0307 real to FRM

    Hope you understand my bad english if you don t understand me i will try it in German

    Quote Originally Posted by 4711 View Post
    Ok you are almost done.
    Now you only change FA Production Time to#0307 via FA_write but don t code it to the ecu.You only simulate it.Its enough that you can see the new #0307 in the main identification Screen
    Then ncs will show you if you try to read out again nfrm instead of FRM and you can code it like you want.
    And if you only use sg_codieren maybe with empty.man or that what you want.The FA isnt wrote with the new production time #0307
    But next time you have to do that again or write #0307 real to FRM

    Hope you understand my bad english if you don t understand me i will try it in German
    If you write the Production time real to the frm and you have navi prov.try to write an empty man to cappl and you get some another markers.
    And if you don t like the other markers only load first your cas with the old Production time an than empty man to cappl and it is like before.There are a lot of Options.

    I haven t got bad impact with changing the ZK(Production time) to frm.

    But if you read out your car with progman you will always get some errors that you have to change defect things ,although its ok.
    If you dont change back ZK to old ones Progman don t like and cannot read the car.But thats not important for me.
    Inpa and DIS are working fine with it
    Last edited by 4711; 02-28-2011 at 09:40 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  9. #9
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    So in NCS-EXPERT "FRM" refers to "old FRM" (FRMFA) and "NFRM" (which appears after changing production time) refers to "new FRM" (FRM2)?

    Changing the production time was a great tip. I will try this as soon as I have time and report back!

    Thanks!

  10. #10
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    hm funny thing...

    i replaced my old FRM1 with a FRM3 and i had no problems with coding using the "FRM". i didn´t change the ZK or something else...have #0305
    when i choose FRM in NCS then the correct coding-files will be loaded.
    but the most ppl who want to change their FRM too also have problems with this communiction

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by f00gami View Post
    So in NCS-EXPERT "FRM" refers to "old FRM" (FRMFA) and "NFRM" (which appears after changing production time) refers to "new FRM" (FRM2)?

    Changing the production time was a great tip. I will try this as soon as I have time and report back!

    Thanks!
    This tip is from Ypoc,he is a real specialist,and it worked for me to code the FRM2.

    But i don t understand why a frm3 on a 2005 E90 works without changing VO.
    Maybe Ypoc has retrofitted anything else before in his VO .
    Can you show me your VO (FA) please.There is sadly no special SA for retrofit the FRM.
    Last edited by 4711; 03-01-2011 at 07:50 AM.

  12. #12
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    no retrofit anything else

    oh lol have a ZK #1204
    thought of #0305 :P yeah man...one of the first e90 :P

    nothing special in these VOs

    E90_#1204&FFAT%0A34*VC31$200$226$249$255$2HB$321$4 28$481$4AD$520$548$676$801$851$863$879$999-B080
    Last edited by ypoc; 03-02-2011 at 06:25 AM.

  13. #13
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    Progress update on FRM to FRM2 swap:

    Using latest tips from 4711, I "simulated" change of ZK from #0606 (which my E91 has) to #0307 in NCS-EXPERT. In the ECU-list FRM then changed to NFRM and I was able to do proper coding.

    Result: Welcome lights are working! All other lights (including Xenons) are working.

    Problem:
    I now get a light error in the kombi;
    - 9CBB Kurzschlussfehler
    - A8BB Schlusslicht links 2, R56: Seitenmarkierungsleuchte links vorne, rechts hinten defekt

    Clearing errors doesn't help, because the fault is present.

    Did you get these codes too? How did you get rid of them?

  14. #14
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    The only fault i had was from LWR 9CB7 ,it did not work.When i started my Xenons they don t drive up and down.I tried other codings butXenon LWR is not OK.
    I tested it with dis and it said Module or Wiring is defect.I switched to the old FRM1, fault was gone,so wiring is OK.In My Case the Module is not OK.

    Please tell me the zusb from your FRM2.

  15. #15
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    did u write a empty FSW_PSW.man file over the FRM2?

    is your left backlight working?

  16. #16
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    I am facing something very similar with my 2009 MINI and retrofitting an audio amplifier.
    VO (FA) is updated with the new amplifier in both CAS and FRM2, but the car still is expecting the old amplifier.
    I believe the incompatible date code may be the issue.

    Questions:
    1) What do you mean by 'simulate' updating the date code?
    2) Is there danger in writing a new date code, or should I be able to undo the date code change if I encounter problems?
    3) Do you change the date code the same way you change the rest of the options listed in the VO (FA)?
    Last edited by fishbert; 03-02-2011 at 05:46 PM.

  17. #17
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    4711 and ypoc; ZUSB of my FRM2 is 9166708. I will do some more testing tomorrow, redo coding with empty .man-file and see if I can sort some things out.

    fishbert: I believe 4711 is refering to changing the Vehicle Order in the ncs-expert software without ever writing it to any module. You can do this by:
    1) read vin and vo of your vehicle as usual using "zcs/fa f. ecu"-button.
    2) one read, return to the main screen and hit "Enter FA"
    3) select your chassis again and confirm your vin
    4) a dialog box will open showing all contents of your VO. Delete any post in the list by selecting it and hitting the Delete-key. Add a new option by entering the appropriate code in the top edit box and click "Add".
    5) Close the window when you are done. Notice that the modified ("simulated") VO is now shown in ncs-expert.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by f00gami View Post
    4711 and ypoc; ZUSB of my FRM2 is 9166708. I will do some more testing tomorrow, redo coding with empty .man-file and see if I can sort some things out.

    fishbert: I believe 4711 is refering to changing the Vehicle Order in the ncs-expert software without ever writing it to any module. You can do this by:
    1) read vin and vo of your vehicle as usual using "zcs/fa f. ecu"-button.
    2) one read, return to the main screen and hit "Enter FA"
    3) select your chassis again and confirm your vin
    4) a dialog box will open showing all contents of your VO. Delete any post in the list by selecting it and hitting the Delete-key. Add a new option by entering the appropriate code in the top edit box and click "Add".
    5) Close the window when you are done. Notice that the modified ("simulated") VO is now shown in ncs-expert.
    And then writing an empty .man to (in this case) the FRM2?
    What does writing the empty .man do? ('default' the module, same as running SG_CODIEREN using a profile with manipulation turned off?)
    Last edited by fishbert; 03-02-2011 at 06:48 PM.

  19. #19
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    right, the new FRM2 will code itself to the car
    Last edited by ypoc; 03-02-2011 at 08:48 PM.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by ypoc View Post
    did u write a empty FSW_PSW.man file over the FRM2?

    is your left backlight working?
    I never did write an empty .man-file. I use SG_CODIEREN function in ncs-expert instead. I thought this was the same, but will try the other method later today.

    However, you are right - half of my left backlight (the part on the tailgate) is not working! Is this a known issue?

  21. #21
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    pls read out the faultcodes of the FRM with INPA

    - A8BB Schlusslicht links 2...this is your left inner backlight...thats why i´m asking
    - 9CBB Kurzschlussfehler....is not good...perhaps there where a short circuit on this backlight and now the souce for the backlight is shutdown

    try to read the details faultcode of the FRM with inpa...then i can say more

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by ypoc View Post
    pls read out the faultcodes of the FRM with INPA

    - A8BB Schlusslicht links 2...this is your left inner backlight...thats why i´m asking
    - 9CBB Kurzschlussfehler....is not good...perhaps there where a short circuit on this backlight and now the souce for the backlight is shutdown

    try to read the details faultcode of the FRM with inpa...then i can say more
    Ok, I did some more work:

    - Redid coding of FRM2 with empty FSW_PSW.MAN-file. Went well but status is the same as before - welcome lights work, but two error codes are still present.
    - Switched back to FRM1 and all lights work fine including left tail light, which appears "broken" when I connect my FRM2.
    - Reattached FRM2 again and checked status of FRM2 with INPA. INPA gives more or less the same info as DIS did. Tried clearing fault memory a couple of times, but error "9CBB Short circuit" remains.

    Did some more research on the short circuit handling of the FRM(2). Apparently it works like this;
    - in case of short circuit detection, the output is switched of after 1 minute and remains off until next flip terminal 15 -> 30 -> 15.
    - if short circuit remains, this is repeated 10 times.
    - if short remains after 10 attempts, the output is switched off and can only be reset by diagnosis command. After reset, the above is repeated.
    - However, the FRM2 allows only a total of 60 short circuit retries. After 60 retries the output is switched off permanently. According to DIS, the module must then be replaced.

    A module which has an output permanently switched off can be identified by a permanent short circuit error code (which can't be cleared).

    Since this is my case, I guess my second-hand FRM2 is faulty and there is nothing more I can do. At least I know that it would have worked fine if the module had been OK.

    Thanks for all your help!

  23. #23
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    you can reset the short circuit counter

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by ypoc View Post
    you can reset the short circuit counter
    You can? Even after it reaches the "permanent" limit? How?

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by f00gami View Post
    You can? Even after it reaches the "permanent" limit? How?
    I have tried it with toolset32 there are 2 different points with short circuit reset in your frm2.
    I don t know if it realy worked ,because the short circuit was still present.
    I have read that you can do that only 4 times with reset,if that is correct i don t know.

    I think maybe there is another problem it cannot be that our modules are faulty.
    I am looking around to solve the prob,but don t find an answer till now.

    I had a look for the differences between coding Parameter from FRM1 FRM2 with ncs dummy, but i don t find something that maybe is not OK.

    Have you already tried to flash the frm2 to the newest I-Stufe.In my case i found no file whitch was more actually than the present one.
    Last edited by 4711; 03-03-2011 at 03:45 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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