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Thread: Towed for the 1st time - P1373, P0171, P0174

  1. #1
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    Towed for the 1st time - P1343, P0171, P0174

    Car ran fine, then stammered, stalled. Fuel pump? Just went through heck diagnosing a Leak Detection Pump's noise and resolved it days ago...could my fuel pump be crapping out?

    Used my official BMW OEM tow-hook (which was brand new/unused lol).

    Flatbed to shop.

    Codes are P1343, P0171 and P0174.

    P1343 made me thing about coils---so I removed coils and found engine oil in all six spark plug wells. Going to order new engine valve cover (as I now believe mine is warped) new VCG and six new coils so I never have to hear about it. But the oil in the spark plug ports is verrrrrrrrrrrry minimal, a drop at best in each.

    Because it will not even start at all, we think it's a fuel pump issue still----
    Last edited by bimmerfiver; 01-29-2011 at 07:42 PM.
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    Got a def on P1373?


    /.randy

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    Update...

    Turned the key to test car at the shop and presto...it starts perfectly and runs like a champ.

    Whiskey, tango, foxtrot???

    The oil around the spark plugs is very, very, very minimal.

    I dunno what this is...so I ordered a fuel pump, fuel filter and fuel pump relay.

    Fun. Lots of.
    Last edited by bimmerfiver; 01-29-2011 at 07:23 PM.
    "I'd smash that (Jennifer Connelly) like a failed coup in sub-Saharan Africa."
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    1. Code P1343 = Misfire cylinder #1 with FUEL CUT-OFF.
    2. P0171 = System too lean (bank 1).
    3. P0174 = System too lean (bank 2).

    You know my vote.
    Especially after you were able to start the car later...
    Last edited by Jason5driver; 01-29-2011 at 05:54 PM.

    Looking for an E39 belly pan , passenger front inner fender liner

  5. #5
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    get a peake tool, after all your bickering on here over the years, id figure you have one by now. "p" codes are a waste of time, a peake would have told you exactly which cylinder, not make you play guess games.

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    Last edited by bimmerfiver; 01-29-2011 at 09:51 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by razahyde View Post
    get a peake tool, after all your bickering on here over the years, id figure you have one by now. "p" codes are a waste of time, a peake would have told you exactly which cylinder, not make you play guess games.

    +1 ^^^Exactly! A Peake code reader is the best for home mechanic IMO.

    Bimmerfiver,

    From recent issue you had I believe your fuel pump is going, but if the fuel pump doesn't solve it then I would look for ripped in elbow boot to ICV, and perhaps CCV system.
    Last edited by 16valex; 01-29-2011 at 08:10 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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    Hmmm, how did that 1373 become a 1343?


    The "with fuel cut-off" means that misfire was bad enough that the DME shut off fuel to the one cylinder to keep from flooding the cat. In this case, #1 injector. It does not mean killing the fuel pump.


    Before you go crazy replacing parts, revisit your leak detection pump repair. If the fuel tank isn't vented correctly, you could end up with a vacuum that would reduce fuel flow and match your symptoms. I've seen it several times.The car would die like a failed pump after a long drive, but start right up after sitting a few hours.

    Quote Originally Posted by razahyde View Post
    get a peake tool, after all your bickering on here over the years, id figure you have one by now. "p" codes are a waste of time, a peake would have told you exactly which cylinder, not make you play guess games.

    Not true. With the more modern cars, the Peake reader is a waste of time. The OBDii codes are much more precise. As an example, his two lean codes would map to "O2 control adaption limit". No mention of lean or rich, and worded such that most people want to change the O2 sensors. Good for Bosch, bad for fixing cars.
    Last edited by rf900rkw; 01-29-2011 at 08:22 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost


    /.randy

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    Quote Originally Posted by 16valex View Post
    +1 ^^^Exactly! A Peake code reader is the best for home mechanic IMO.

    Bimmerfiver,

    From recent issue you had I believe your fuel pump is going, but if the fuel pump doesn't solve it then I would look for ripped in elbow boot to ICV, and perhaps CCV system.
    CCV might be the culprit indeed.

    My fuel pump has never made noise, ever. We put a guage on the shraeder at the fuel rail and it was 55psi.

    I am going nuts because throwing money at a fuel pump is expensive and I don't mind...but need to know for sure that is it.


    Here are cats who had CCV with P1343:

    http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...www.google.com

    http://www.fixya.com/cars/t6307003-2001_bmw_540i

    http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...69#post3731610

    Quote Originally Posted by rf900rkw View Post
    Hmmm, how did that 1373 become a 1343?


    The "with fuel cut-off" means that misfire was bad enough that the DME shut off fuel to the one cylinder to keep from flooding the cat. In this case, #1 injector. It does not mean killing the fuel pump.


    Before you go crazy replacing parts, revisit your leak detection pump repair. If the fuel tank isn't vented correctly, you could end up with a vacuum that would reduce fuel flow and match your symptoms. I've seen it several times.The car would die like a failed pump after a long drive, but start right up after sitting a few hours.
    Thank you. Sorry, that was a typo and the code indeed is P1343.

    I believe my Leak Detection Pump was replaced 100%. It was a very easy job.

    I do not believe my fuel pump is to blame (and spending $300.00 on it along with $70.00 for a filter and whatever the relay costs) and this might indeed be a huge waste of money.

    My car is sitting at the shop, problem not resolved and only educated guessing which sucks.

    Leaning towards replacing coils (and CCV while at it).
    Last edited by bimmerfiver; 01-29-2011 at 10:05 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
    "I'd smash that (Jennifer Connelly) like a failed coup in sub-Saharan Africa."
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    That seems logical to me as well. Recent work to the fuel system, then recent new problems with that system shortly after. Would not hurt to double check the last work.

  11. #11
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    Have a smoke test run on the intake and have a crankcase pressure check run. The first will find any intake leaks and second will tell if the CCV has failed. Intake leaks or a bad CCV are the most common causes for the codes you got.

    I doubt that your valve cover is warped, but it is certain that it needs new gaskets & seals.

    I have very little faith in a Peake tool or most any other DIY type scanner. I've seen too many cases where the codes those report are just flat wrong, especially the Peake. Having one is fine, but don't replace any parts until the diagnosis has been confirmed with full up BMW specific diag system.
    The car makes it possible, but the driver makes it happen.
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    Any chance you might have experienced a little water in the tank that froze on you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by AnotherGeezer View Post
    Any chance you might have experienced a little water in the tank that froze on you?
    I'd enjoy if it was frozen gas...but my tanks were always working fine, it was just the Leak Detection Pump that was failing (making a buzzing noise as it's rubber diaphram was frozen imo).

    Anyway....on Monday I am thinking of replacing the CCV (which I have in stock and planned on doing when possible) new engine cover, a new valve cover gasket and 6 new coils.

    My coils have 85K on them and I did plan on replacing them fairly soon. As for the valve cover gasket, I've had 3 replaced over 30K miles and it always leaks so I have to believe it's a warped engine cover...

    "I'd smash that (Jennifer Connelly) like a failed coup in sub-Saharan Africa."
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    Quote Originally Posted by rf900rkw View Post
    Hmmm, how did that 1373 become a 1343?


    The "with fuel cut-off" means that misfire was bad enough that the DME shut off fuel to the one cylinder to keep from flooding the cat. In this case, #1 injector. It does not mean killing the fuel pump.


    Before you go crazy replacing parts, revisit your leak detection pump repair. If the fuel tank isn't vented correctly, you could end up with a vacuum that would reduce fuel flow and match your symptoms. I've seen it several times.The car would die like a failed pump after a long drive, but start right up after sitting a few hours.
    +1.
    Totally agree.
    Makes a lot of sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by thejlevie View Post
    Have a smoke test run on the intake and have a crankcase pressure check run. The first will find any intake leaks and second will tell if the CCV has failed. Intake leaks or a bad CCV are the most common causes for the codes you got.

    I doubt that your valve cover is warped, but it is certain that it needs new gaskets & seals.

    I have very little faith in a Peake tool or most any other DIY type scanner. I've seen too many cases where the codes those report are just flat wrong, especially the Peake. Having one is fine, but don't replace any parts until the diagnosis has been confirmed with full up BMW specific diag system.
    +1.
    Also totally agree!
    GT1.

    My ignition coils might be going bad, but, you know what?
    I WILL have my car read on the GT1 before I buy or replace ANY part.

    You are not understanding...
    You have to put all of the codes you got TOGETHER, in conjunction.
    Code p1343 can mean different things when with other codes.
    Last edited by Jason5driver; 01-30-2011 at 12:13 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

    Looking for an E39 belly pan , passenger front inner fender liner

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    Understanding? It's straightforward. Fuel pump some say, run out and buy a $300.00 pump. Re-check my work on a Leak Detection Pump which was like connecting a LEGO, sure. But to say an intermittent issue which was 'resolved' after a $75.00 flatbed and three hours of passed time needs to be "understood" while a known-failing CCV is in the car, with a known-leaking Engine Cover/Valve Cover and the chunk we have to 'go on' is that # one (1) cylinder had an 'mis-fire issue' to the point it was shut down so as not to over-flood...I think I'm understanding as I did at 11am while checking the codes (as the flatbed arrived as car would not even start, not run more than 1.5 seconds). The other two codes would seem tertiary as they popped up due to P1343.

    I do understand. I also know I am not paying BMW $250.00 for a GT1.

    This issue with the car left it broken down on the side of the road for the first time and chances are 100% it will occur again unless resolved and while it's easy to attribute the problem to "fuel pump" it seems more understanding and logical to be under the hood...not the trunk so to speak; my hunch after seeing P1343 at 11am today and subsequent research supported the notion that a "bad coil" or "CCV Valve" were to blame and not a fuel pump.

    You stated "fuel pump" and I hear you, but what can you support that with based on the codes?
    Last edited by bimmerfiver; 01-30-2011 at 09:39 PM.
    "I'd smash that (Jennifer Connelly) like a failed coup in sub-Saharan Africa."
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    you must to run GT1 diagnostic ( not with dealer,find friend or indy )
    it will show you all your problems with step by step in test plan

    Work for all parts you plan to replace ( including coils ) except of Vacuum leak

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by bimmerfiver View Post
    Understanding? It's straightforward. Fuel pump some say, run out and buy a $300.00 pump. Re-check my work on a Leak Detection Pump which was like connecting a LEGO, sure. But to say an intermittent issue which was 'resolved' after a $75.00 flatbed and three hours of passed time needs to be "understood" while a known-failing CCV is in the car, with a known-leaking Engine Cover/Valve Cover and the chunk we have to 'go on' is that # one (1) cylinder had an 'mis-fire issue' to the point it was shut down so as not to over-flood...I think I'm understanding as I did at 11am while checking the codes (as the flatbed arrived as car would not even start, not run more than 1.5 seconds). The other two codes would seem tertiary as they popped up due to P1373.

    I do understand. I also know I am not paying BMW $250.00 for a GT1.

    This issue with the car left it broken down on the side of the road for the first time and chances are 100% it will occur again unless resolved and while it's easy to attribute the problem to "fuel pump" it seems more understanding and logical to be under the hood...not the trunk so to speak; my hunch after seeing P1373 at 11am today and subsequent research supported the notion that a "bad coil" or "CCV Valve" were to blame and not a fuel pump.

    You stated "fuel pump" and I hear you, but what can you support that with based on the codes?
    I don't know what is wrong with your car, but if it were me, like I said before, I would still have the codes checked on the GT-1.
    But, that is just me; that is what I would do.
    I am merely only agreeing with Jim Levie and rf900rkw (who I am pretty sure is a mechanic and has his own shop).

    That way, you are certain your problem is a coil, or the ccv, or whatever...
    Before making a guessing game, and driving yourself crazy from paranoid schizophrenia...

    Quote Originally Posted by champaign777 View Post
    you must to run GT1 diagnostic ( not with dealer,find friend or indy )
    it will show you all your problems with step by step in test plan

    Work for all parts you plan to replace ( including coils ) except of Vacuum leak
    I have said this numerous times.
    However, there seems to be no BMW independent mechanics near Bimmerfiver in New York, or none that know more than Bimmerfiver, at least from what Bimmerfiver has said...

    Looking for an E39 belly pan , passenger front inner fender liner

  18. #18
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    Bimmer:

    Had a similar intermittent "no-start" issue that was fuel related.

    The + wire underneath the passenger side fuel level sending unit (supplies + down to electric in-tank fuel pump) was internally corroded (bent, cracked by previous owner's mechanic)... and caused intermittent + to fuel pump.

    I traced + from battery all the way to top of passenger side fuel level sending unit (use Bentley,need to jumper a relay). I removed and bench tested fuel pump (worked). Then I connected everything, had fuel pump in bucket of gas dumping back into tank and wriggled + wire from under fuel level sending unit "cap" and the fuel pump quit.

    Replaced both fuel level sending units, pump, sucking jet pump, 3/2 running loss valve (integrated fuel pressure regulator) and fuel filter. Don't ever anticipate any more Fuel related problems... and should be good t go for another 160k miles.

    Check that + wire under the passenger side fuel level sending unit ... all you need is a digital volt meter (DVM) and some time.

    FWIW: When my coil packs failed, codes were per cylinder. Moved some around and code followed. Replaced all 6 and boots for preventative ...again, originals made it 170k + miles... time for new ones in my case.
    Last edited by jase007; 01-30-2011 at 11:03 AM.
    Jason

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  19. #19
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    all this blabber about V8s being PITA, and it seems like I6s are just as vulnerable.

    OP, I hope everything works out for ya. Can't help ya as I dont know much about the M54.

    "P" codes over Peake codes anyday! Alot easier when youre googling too
    (oOO\(|||)(|||)/OOo) /00=[][]=00\

  20. #20
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    For the record, I did not say you installed the Leak Pump wrong. I'm suggesting there may well be an underlaying problem that caused the first pump to fail, and now that you have a working pump it's blocking off the vent.

    Wait, I seem to remember from the old thread the Leak Pump was making noise while the car was running? True?


    /.randy

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason5driver View Post
    I don't know what is wrong with your car, but if it were me, like I said before, I would still have the codes checked on the GT-1.
    But, that is just me; that is what I would do.
    I am merely only agreeing with Jim Levie and rf900rkw (who I am pretty sure is a mechanic and has his own shop).

    That way, you are certain your problem is a coil, or the ccv, or whatever...
    Before making a guessing game, and driving yourself crazy from paranoid schizophrenia...



    I have said this numerous times.
    However, there seems to be no BMW independent mechanics near Bimmerfiver in New York, or none that know more than Bimmerfiver, at least from what Bimmerfiver has said...
    Intermittent issues are the worst, related to electrical and fuel are a headache for sure. I plan on replacing the fuel pump, relay and filter this Spring regardless of the outcome here and now. That said, owning one car, a daily driver and having it flat-bedded, only to then start up perfectly after we push it into the shop's bay was no fun.

    After it was running we shut it down, connected a guage to the fuel rail. It read about 52-55psi. And three mechanics who do this for a living and me, a model/actor, all stood there smiling/rolling our eyes.

    According to jase007:

    "If the electric is on the system is pressurized 50.76 + psi. Be careful when testing this way that you have a rag wrapped around the shraeder valve [pin] and you don't spray your eyes or compartment. Pressure can be up to 75 psi or more if there is a blockage [not likely] Bentley says that system should maintain residual pressure to ~ 43 psi at a minimum 20 minutes after car has run for a few minutes and was turned off."

    So:

    1). Either the fuel pump is crapping out intermittently. Why the car started for no reason with perfect idle and great fuel PSI, nobody knows.
    2). Or Fuel pump relay is crapping out intermittently.
    3). Or Fuel filter was clogged with debris or frozen.
    4). Or Fuel pressure regulator is crapping out intermittently.
    5). Or Coil at # 1 cylinder is crapping out intermittently as it shorted causing a hiccup so the DME shut down fuel going to it (triggering code # P1343) which then caused the subsequent lean codes (P0171 and P0174).
    6). CCV is crapping out.

    Your immediate recommendations was "fuel pump" and as I said, I'd like to apply some laws and logic before leaping for a $300.00 pump. I plan on replacing it as with 135K it must be tiring, but need to have the car running tomorrow without any issues.

    QUESTION: Now that codes are cleared and the car is running well, will a GT1 be able 100% to tell me tomorrow, "Dude you need a fuel pump" or "You need new coils"? If someone can guarantee me this, I will head down to BMW for GT1.

    Quote Originally Posted by rf900rkw View Post
    For the record, I did not say you installed the Leak Pump wrong. I'm suggesting there may well be an underlaying problem that caused the first pump to fail, and now that you have a working pump it's blocking off the vent.

    Wait, I seem to remember from the old thread the Leak Pump was making noise while the car was running? True?
    Yes, my Leak Detection Pump was making audible buzzing noise. See posts 31 and downward:

    http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...on+pump&page=2

    And I am with you...something in either my fuel system or abound under my hood is just not right.

    The audible noise, I thought it was the Jet Suction Pump, but pinned it down to the Leak Detection Pump. Ironically the noise from the Leak Detection Pump went away on it's own (ambient temps rose above freezing at the same time the noise disappeared which lead me to believe it's diaphram was 'frozen' from wet fumes) but I replaced it anway.

    The more research I did lead me to believe the Jet Suction Pump couldn't make noise. I was also certain the Fuel Pump Side of my fuel tank was quiet as a Church mouse. So I thought replacing the Leak Detection Pump was wise, but alas, two days later I am broken down woth codes P1343, P0171 and P0174 and a headache.
    Last edited by bimmerfiver; 01-30-2011 at 11:38 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
    "I'd smash that (Jennifer Connelly) like a failed coup in sub-Saharan Africa."
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  22. #22
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    ...a daily driver and having it flat-bedded, only to then start up perfectly after we push it into the shop's bay was no fun.
    Happened to me (once) the shop found nothing (+ wire issue mentioned above). Next time it died at my wife's work garage (towed to my house). Diagnosed and new fuel level sending unit fixed it.

    Ask your mechanic to test the + wire under the fuel level sending unit on passenger side. If the car is there ... he only has to pop out the rear seat (5 minutes), remove the cover plate (5 minutes), undo locking ring and partially remove fuel level sending unit (5 minutes).

    Really is that easy.
    Jason

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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by jase007 View Post
    FWIW: When my coil packs failed, codes were per cylinder. Moved some around and code followed. Replaced all 6 and boots for preventative ...again, originals made it 170k + miles... time for new ones in my case.
    Jason,

    Thank you.

    And I read this ^ above from you and it pushes me to believe...I have one bad coil at cylinder # 1 as my code was P1343, misfire cylinder #1 with FUEL CUT-OFF.

    Regards,
    Keith
    "I'd smash that (Jennifer Connelly) like a failed coup in sub-Saharan Africa."
    ~Macktheknife in my epic Jennifer Connelly OT Thread

  24. #24
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    If I have to roll the dice on the internet w/o being there! I have to go with your CCV system.

    Your CCV clogged caused a blown VCG
    Oil then fouled your plugs and coils, intern it caused a mis-fire situation.

    Do the CCV first and see what happen. I have a feeling this is your culprit.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by bimmerfiver View Post

    Yes, my Leak Detection Pump was making audible buzzing noise. See posts 31 and downward:

    http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...on+pump&page=2

    And I am with you...something in either my fuel system or abound under my hood is just not right.

    The audible noise, I thought it was the Jet Suction Pump, but pinned it down to the Leak Detection Pump. Ironically the noise from the Leak Detection Pump went away on it's own (ambient temps rose above freezing at the same time the noise disappeared which lead me to believe it's diaphram was 'frozen' from wet fumes) but I replaced it anway.

    The more research I did lead me to believe the Jet Suction Pump couldn't make noise. I was also certain the Fuel Pump Side of my fuel tank was quiet as a Church mouse. So I thought replacing the Leak Detection Pump was wise, but alas, two days later I am broken down woth codes P1343, P0171 and P0174 and a headache.

    My understanding of things is your '03 should have the DM-TL style pump. While this document is for the X5 intro, it gives a very good description of how and when the system works. Starting on page 31 HERE. This will give you an understanding of the system. Note the pump doesn't run while the engine is on. Armed with that, the old symptoms (HISS) and the new (dead), you may well find a stopped up vent filter or some such at the root of all problems. Or maybe something with the purge. Or may it's failing coils, fuelpump, LDP, and right rear brake light all at the same time. Unforch, this is as far as we can go without access to the car.

    If you do find yourself in the situation where it dies (or tries) again, take the fuel cap off. If you get a big WHOOSH and it runs again, you have an answer.


    /.randy

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