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Thread: The definitive E36 LTW Spoiler Replica Thread

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    The definitive E36 LTW Spoiler Replica Thread - Got a LTW SPOILER? Please Post here!!

    Well, we all love the look of a LTW wing, whether it be high, low, with risers, without risers, and I know most of us like saving the money of a replica over the inflated prices of an OEM part (assuming the part fits properly). At this point in 2011, a new OEM LTW wing (if you can find one), can cost more than some people purchased their entire E36 for!! For years, I have been searching for an accurate replica that had removable risers with the thin base and tops like OEM and without sagging in the center. In YEARS of searching, I cant seem to find one that fits the bill for me.

    It seems that a lot of these companies (especially on ebay) like to use a bait-and-switch technique to sell bad replica LTW by using photos of real LTW wings.

    After going through tons and tons of threads, I wasnt able to find a definitive source for an accurate LTW replica wing. I was thinking that this might be a good opportunity for those of use that have good or bad LTW replicas to post where they got their wing from, the price that they paid, some photos of the wing ON YOUR CAR, and their comments on the wing's specific quality and installation process. If you got it from a ebay, maybe you should post the seller's name and not just say "I got it on ebay." While I am trying to find a wing myself, I think this would be a good reference for those existing or future BF.com members that will enevitably ask this question from week to week. A BIG "Thanks" from M3JON!

    EDITED: INFO COURTESY OF MEMBER "CHYNK". THANK YOU AGAIN!

    Quote Originally Posted by chynk View Post
    LTW/GT Guide

    So I've decided to make a guide with the knowledge I've gathered from studying the spoiler for the past few years.

    None of this is fact, just my best assessment. Feel free to let me know any corrections that may be needed, we're all here to learn.

    So to begin, this is going to cover STRICTLY the ltw/gt(1) spoiler.

    It is known in the US as the ltw spoiler after appearing on the Lightweight e36 m3 sold exclusively in the US.



    In EU, it is known as the gt spoiler after appearing exclusively on the e36 m3 gt (as well as e36 318is class II)




    Also, small note, the base of the spoiler on the 318is class II is different than the others. The sedan trunks are slightly smaller in width.

    The top portion of the spoilers share the same part number. More info here thanks to forum member Falk



    The only difference between the ltw and the gt(1) spoiler is that the US version required a third brake light so it was cut out to comply with US law.

    You will noticed it is somewhat poorly done as it was hand cut by the PTG racing team I believe, otherwise the spoilers are identical.



    Since we know what the ltw/gt spoiler IS, let's take a look at some photos of what it ISN'T.

    The gt(2) spoiler has a different base (as well as a brake light) while sharing identical tops with the gt(1). Risers are interchangeable on them.

    (Slight fun fact, this spoiler also appears on the 320i clubsport [and 328i clubsport?])




    Here is a great photo showing the differences from the gt (left) and gt2 (right) spoiler. The gt2 spoiler stops at the trunk while the gt goes past.



    Other spoilers that get confused with the ltw include

    -PTG spoiler




    -GTR spoiler




    -DTM Fiberwerkz (Pretty cool, looks like the a combination of the PTG and GTR spoiler together) Low PTG spoiler? Wonder if riser blocks would fit?



    -Unknown (If you know, please inform me)



    -Rieger Infinity II




    -RACING DYNAMICS RS High-Speed Heckflügel (Class II) - (Looks like an ltw without the base?)



    -Racing Dynamics (Unknown?)




    -Bekkers? (Unknown)




    Comparison to a replica low rise ltw



    WHAT TO LOOK FOR

    There are a number of different things to looks for when choosing the right spoiler to suit your needs.

    Some want as close to OEM as they can get. Others would like the aesthetic without having to pay a premium.

    Things to look for in an ltw spoiler include

    1. 4 pieces (Base piece, top portion, left riser, right riser)
    2. No sag (No dip from the top portion [While making this, I just learned they're actually supposed to curve up slightly!])
    3. Round sides (Curved riser blocks opposed to straight)
    4. Slim base (Tapering base width from the rear towards the front)


    There are several different ltw spoilers that exist. I'm going to cover to the best of my ability the most commonly known ones for convenience sake.

    My list include
    -OEM
    -Abraham/Lester
    -Mashaw
    -Ebay (generic)

    OEM

    With OEM, it is the most expensive and you're getting the "best". Even though it is OEM, there may still be flaws in the finish and even fitment that many don't realize.








    To know if you have an OEM spoiler, look for the part numbers, or simpler, the little indentation under the base of the tail.




    There's something about the oem that makes it look so much sleeker than the rest. It looks like the base gets really sharp as it goes towards the front of the car.
    (Or maybe it's because it's slim and we're looking at low rise versions here?)



    (Also, small fun detail, the angle of the coupe trunk perfectly matches the top portion [I believe sedan trunks have a very minor different angle])



    You may have seen some ltw spoilers come with additional pieces. These are known as wicker bills and are very rare OEM pieces.

    I believe there is someone working on replicating said pieces but I do not know the details.






    As well, there are images with some with gurney flaps. These are NOT original.

    They have been modified and added by their respective owners.





    ABRAHAM/LESTER

    Next is what I believe to be the next best thing to OEM, Abraham/Lester.

    They looks nearly identical although I have read about slight fitment issues that need to be worked on.

    If you plan to do it yourself, you may run into some alignment issues. Reputable shops should have no problem with the spoiler.

    Here's a before and after photo of the spoiler being torqued together. You can see the base is flexing. (Odd, I thought the poly would be stronger than that?)










    There are some who have bought and used Abraham/Lester risers on their oem ltw spoilers

    I've read two examples, and one said it was okay, while the other said it was a struggle.




    MASHAW

    The next best option behind Abraham/Lester I believe is Mashaw.

    They are very strong, and do not flex much if at all (I would know because I backed into a tree branch on accident and it slightly bent my trunk )

    The issue though is that they don't have a clean finish. By that I mean that when you receive the product it isn't fully smooth, it needs a little prep work.

    I've read because these are race pieces, they were built tough with less priority on looks, function > form.

    Again, any reputable shop should be able to handle any small issues.

    As well, the riser blocks are not like OEM. The bolts are hidden within the hollow risers.

    From an installation preference, it is much easier to work on as I'm told, opposed to traditional risers.

    Supposedly, the spoiler needs to be modified a bit to be run in the low position, it was made to be ran in the high position at all times being a race part.

    Below is a comparison between an OEM ltw/gt spoiler (left) and a Mashaw (right).

    You will see the difference in the risers appearance. Also the base is a little larger than OEM and not "sharp"










    Also, here's a comparison between a Mashaw (left) vs an Abraham/Lester (right).

    You'll see the base on the Mashaw is not as thin and "sharp" as the Abraham/Lester.





    Also, a rare option is the Mashaw full carbon fiber.

    It is the same mold as the fiberglass model but many times lighter.

    It features the same drawbacks such as a poor dull finish.








    EBAY

    And lastly, we have eBay.

    This comparison is not limited to products sold from eBay, instead, all generic markets and vendors who wholesale parts from China.

    There are a number of different eBay variants

    -1 piece
    -2 piece
    -2 piece seamless
    -4 piece
    -4 piece carbon fiber

    Beginning with 1 piece, these are actually pretty rare to come by.

    The example below appears to have no sag, but the sides are far too straight in shape resulting in a rectangular spoiler shape.



    Next we have 2 piece with an indentation to make it "look" like there's four pieces.

    These usually suffer from sag, a dip in the middle of the top portion of the spoiler. Also doesn't have the correct curvature in the "risers"




    An easy way to tell if a spoiler is 2 or 4 pieces, look at the slant of the riser indentation. If it is angled, there's no way it would be able to sit as a low rise ltw.





    Be careful looking for giant fat bases. This one barely tapers.



    And then there's the seamless 2 piece.

    This one has fake holes for the riser, also notice the sag in the second photo.




    These 2 pieces with no fake riser holes actually look pretty good. The shape looks correct and no sag from what I can see. It just looks a bit naked?






    I think these might be Duraflex?




    There's also this 2 piece made from carbon fiber. Doesn't have the correct riser curve and has sag.





    Next we have the 4 piece spoilers.

    This one in particular has a perfect riser curve. It just suffers from sag.



    And then this one has a poor riser curve along with sag.



    Be careful again looking for fat bases.





    Here's a 4 piece with a custom gurney flap. It looks square shaped with some sag.






    And lastly, 4 piece carbon fiber.

    These have a nice slim base, but not as "sharp" as oem. I would say slightly slimmer than Mashaw but not as good as Abraham/Lesters.

    Unfortunately they have a very boxy look, lacking curvature in the risers and sag in the middle.

    The finish is very nice though.
















    As you can see, it's really a gamble when it comes down to "eBay" spoilers.

    You never know exactly what you're going to get as a lot of times sellers and manufacturers will use generic photos instead of the actual product on hand.

    You might get one with a fat base or square risers along with sag.

    Someone has to bite the bullet unfortunately to figure out which ones are good and bad.

    Side note, I no longer see 4 piece carbon fiber ltws on ebay from China.

    It seems like buying used might be the only options if you want a 4 piece carbon fiber one.

    As well, Busterhax stated Mashaw ltw spoilers are no longer in production as the original mold to produce the spoiler was lost?

    HAMANN

    As a bonus, there's also Hamann that makes a very nice looking rep, with no sag and a very nice slim base.

    Unfortunately, supposedly they aren't very strong though and do no accept risers.





    You'll know it's a Hamann by the indentations in the middle



    Also, they put them on other models too? Unknown if these are car specific but I'd imagine it would be?






    POTENTIAL EBAY ALTERNATIVES

    There were a few that I've come across on eBay, if someone is willing to take one for the team?

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/BMW-3-E36-19...MAAOSwknJX1hck





    http://www.ebay.com/itm/BMW-E36-GT-R...UAAOSwFnFWBX8a




    And then there's this one whom also appears to be selling on bimmerforums as well as panjo.

    It looks like it has a nice slim base, proper riser curve, but it sags.

    http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...block-laminate

    https://www.panjo.com/buy/rear-spoiler-e36-m3-gt-class-2-ltw-block-laminate-217233

    http://www.ebay.pl/itm/BMW-E36-M3-GT-Class-II-2-Heckspoiler-rear-spoiler-LTW-Wing-HECKFLUGEL-/162294846422?hash=item25c986d3d6:g:HpYAAOSwmfhX56Q S







    COUPE VS SEDAN

    Most ltw spoiler replicas are made for the coupe, so with that info, they should work on ALL sedans.

    The trunk width is as follows thanks to Jim E.

    The coupe is 67.3” wide
    The sedan is 66.9” wide

    I have yet to see a sedan specific replica spoiler.

    Below is a Mashaw that was originally on a coupe, then put on a sedan.

    You can see the very minor space between the trunk edge and spoiler. We're talking 0.2" on each side.



    WEIGHT

    Small note regarding the weight of spoilers, these are not fully confirmed but are as follows for high rise ltws

    Oem - 17ish lbs (?) (Confirmed by Effervescent)
    Abramham/Lester (Polyurethane) - 15lbs 6oz (Confirmed by BMWE34M5) 13lbs 3 oz for low version
    -----(As of 4/29/15 BMWE34M5 says weighs 11.5lbs lbs now?)
    Mashaw (Fiberglass) - ? (Supposedly 3.8lbs lighter than OEM confirmed by BSH)
    Mashaw (Carbon Fiber) - ?
    Ebay (2 Pieces High Rise) - 8.5lbs (Confirmed by Effervescent)
    Ebay (Carbon Fiber) - 3.14lbs (Confirmed by HTOWN///M)

    As you can see from the math, some things need to be reconfirmed

    OTHER

    There was this spoiler that I saw at Bimmerfest one year. It featured a dip in the top portion of the spoiler, but had no sag amazingly.

    It also had a VERY thin base, maybe even better then Abraham/Lester?







    I also found this photo with risers with it, looks really nice!



    I actually found this spoiler selling on eBay but don't know if they will ship to the US.

    If you're interested, give it a shot? I cannot confirm if they will be the same as the above photos though.

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/200400493689...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/370294880110...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT



    They even have one with a brake light on the top?



    And then there's these ltw replicas that I have been seeing more recently, popping up I think specifically in Europe somewhere?

    If you've ever seen Fancy Wide diffusers, you've seen this spoiler.

    It seems nice but it looks like the spoiler is leaning back almost, it is following the trunk line. It looks cool yet weird because I'm so used to OEM.

    The riser curve isn't the best, but the base of the spoiler is thin, and there's no sag surprisingly.












    BRAKELIGHT?

    I don't know whether these following two cars are OEM ltw spoilers that came off an original e36 ltw with the third brakelight and then painted?

    Or if they're OEM gt spoilers that were cut up and added later by their respective owners.

    I've considered having a shop cut my spoiler base open and adding a third brake light but was always a bit worried.




    Then there's this one from British Columbia. Also unconfirmed if it's an original "ltw" or OEM gt spoiler that was cut.

    We do know the top "wicker" has been added.





    There are some spoilers that I have been fascinated about, mostly ones with a third brake light or some form of indentation for one.

    I've read that Mashaw made a few with 3rd brake lights. Does anyone have more info about them?

    Supposedly they were made hoping to sell more, but since no one was buying, they said forget about it. Perhaps these are samples?

    This is a carbon fiber Mashaw, notice the cutout for where a light should be.




    And then I also found this photo from a race car. It sports a Mashaw decal on the rear, so maybe?

    What makes me question whether or not it's Mashaw is because they never made "traditional" risers.

    Notice that you can see the bolt holes. Usually Mashaw is smooth. Maybe also an early sample run, and they decided to change the mold?




    And I know Mashaw also made PTG spoilers, maybe this is their creation as well?

    If you look closely, this isn't a traditional "PTG" cutout. There's actually a surround going on around the brakelight as if it was meant to be there.



    And then I found these (I don't believe they're Mashaw).

    Notice the little indentation, not a hole or cutout, but where a brakelight could potentially be put.




    And then there's this one. It has a similar middle piece, but it comes out, kind of like a little extra tail.

    The spoiler itself looks poor, two piece, no riser curve, and sag. But the base piece is completely different.





    And we also have this spoiler. It has the same opening for a brake light. But notice the risers, they're smooth like on a Mashaw.







    RAREST OF THEM ALL?

    Below is an actual e36 m3 ltw for sale

    http://enthusiastauto.com/qsearch/?i...orm_display=51

    This spoiler goes against all knowledge of the OEM ltw spoilers.

    Check the brake light surround.



    And here's a comparison from two other ltws that are for sale on enthusiastauto.



    What's even more fascinating is that the riser blocks are smooth! Is this a Mashaw spoiler put on an ltw? The car is pretty modified so maybe?



    As I looked more, nope! There's the indentation for the OEM sticker!





    If anyone has any info regarding these, please do leave a comment!

    I'm interesting in knowing what these are!

    RECAP



    No spoiler is perfect, not even OEM. It is what you choose to prioritize from one spoiler to the next when finding one to suit your needs.

    Some can't afford an expensive 4 piece replica and will go with a 2 piece.

    Some prefer the weight savings of carbon fiber and is okay that it's boxy and sags.

    And others find that they are willing to pay a little extra for peace of mind to know they getting exactly what is in the photo.

    Personally for me, I'd like the spoiler to look as close to OEM as possible while spending the least amount of money
    Also, for fun, here's a photo of an e34 with an ltw spoiler, and custom double risers with a metal support to make it taller

    Last edited by m3j0n; 01-18-2017 at 02:00 AM.
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    also interested
    sig12 by Devo325, on Flickr

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    I have a MA shaw wing at this point in time but i have owned ebay wings aswell. I have pictures of both and i will do a review in a little bit (after work) for you.
    Last edited by elliott95; 01-23-2011 at 07:12 PM.

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    subscribed.

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    As info is posted, I will add it to the first page for ease of search.
    Last edited by m3j0n; 01-23-2011 at 07:28 PM.
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    Replica Wing

    Funny, I was searching for this exact thing just a few weeks ago..

    Bekkers.com


    http://www.bekkers.com/Merchant2/mer..._Code=be36aero
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    mike, thanks, but thats not what I'm looking for. Again, sellers like to do a bait-and-switch and we cant really take their word for it. If you have the bekkers, post a picture of it on your car, so we can see what it really looks like, vs. the picture on their website. I think that will be much more helpful.
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    very interested in this! have wanted a wing for awhile now

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    good thread. i've been looking for pics of all the different ones so i have good refrences for installing my hamman. i have an authentic hamman ltw, but its not installed on my car at the moment. i've been saving up for paint but at this point im walking the line of doing aflat black and BG 2-tone just so i can install some my primed and ready parts. i did get my wing used, so its been mounted before, and i've had it unmounted and stored for years, and theres no sag to it. its amazing quality while being wicked light. and i just love the lines of it with out the center brake light, and how thats where the serial number and logo is.

    but i know there is no way in the world i'll ever be able to get another hamman wing, and i am looking for another e36, so i'll end up with a knock off at some point for my 2nd car. and i'd like to get a set of removable risers just to be able to use if i want. so i'd like to see whats the best brand to get. also does any one know whats the best installation kit? im going to get an oem one for the one i have now, as long as the dealership still offers one, and if not i believe pelican and bav auto can order them for close to the same price. id also really like to get a set of wicker bills if any one with knows where to get them or wants to sell a set. i think thats something the after market companys need to start producing. and since this thread is about ltw wings if we get enough interest maybe we could start a seperate thread and get enough people to get one of these places to do a group buy on the wicker bills, and maybe even in carbon fiber. i can post pics of mine for refrence but its not on the car so i doubt thatd be to helpful with the point of the thread


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    bump for contributions?!
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    Tough to find one with removalable risers... and I believe there is a very good thread in the E36 M3 section with all this info. My replica as well as every single other one known is in the thread.

    The ones that are removable are not quite as expensive but still 2x-3x the cost of the 'eBay replica'.

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    Do any of the replicas or even the authentic bolt up to the same holes as the stock spoiler? If not, does the bottom piece cover the holes that would be there if swapping from a stock spoiler?

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    Quote Originally Posted by M3Alpine99 View Post
    Tough to find one with removalable risers... and I believe there is a very good thread in the E36 M3 section with all this info. My replica as well as every single other one known is in the thread.

    The ones that are removable are not quite as expensive but still 2x-3x the cost of the 'eBay replica'.
    got the link to the thread that you are referring to? Thanks.
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    i have bsaint's old LTW wing, and it's very nice. i don't think the risers are removable though, at least not without taking the entire wing off of the car which would be a pain in the ass. it didn't bolt up to the same holes as the stock spoiler but it does cover them.

    i have no idea what company made it though, maybe bsaint could chime in with that info




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    I'll try and find the thread again...


    That looks like an eBay replica. Sags in the middle.

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    I know EuroHB is running an ebay rep, maybe he'll chime in. Don't think the risers are removable though
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    This thread is for ALL types of LTW wings. We welcome all the information. the more, the better. see if you can get him to post in here. thanks.
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    I think someone with a dakar bought theirs from an ebay company called directparts4you and it worked out pretty well. They sell the carbon ones and the regular ones with removable risers
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyxMidget View Post
    i have bsaint's old LTW wing, and it's very nice. i don't think the risers are removable though, at least not without taking the entire wing off of the car which would be a pain in the ass. it didn't bolt up to the same holes as the stock spoiler but it does cover them.

    i have no idea what company made it though, maybe bsaint could chime in with that info
    Quote Originally Posted by M3Alpine99 View Post


    That looks like an eBay replica. Sags in the middle.
    Quote Originally Posted by CivetaDei View Post
    I think someone with a dakar bought theirs from an ebay company called directparts4you and it worked out pretty well. They sell the carbon ones and the regular ones with removable risers
    Montizzle, he pm'd me and asked me where I got mine, same place his looked great as well.


    Guess I should chime in.


    It is an ebay replica (from japan) I can't seem to find the seller at the moment, but the "Sag" is actually a optical illusion I've measured and leveled it and it is spot on (Look at second picture). It looks that way because of the way the sides form into the middle and the natural curve of the arch

    . Both top and bottom pieces are hollow fiberglass and are fairly light. I owned a bekkers low rise spoiler for my white m3 and that thing was full carbon fiber, but has cardboard and foam inside which ends up weighing just as much as this spoiler combo. However since it is hollow at high speeds usually 100+ it does bow a bit, not very noticeable, but you can see it. However it does work... Ive used stock spoiler, vs no spoiler and its about the same around 100+ bekkers or gt spoiler helps a little usually around 110, but this higher one deff makes things more stable from 90 on
    mph.

    The risers are removable and does bolt up to the bottom piece as I took them apart when I first painted it. I never got around to wet sanding it and making it perfect, but it came perfectly primed and unpainted exposed CF that was clear coated. The only thing I would recommend when installing one of these is to use loctite in the bolts and use bigger washers not included with the kit. On the way back from Miami for Drew's Run 2009 the top part started to come lose from the riser and I had to use some glue and gorilla tape to temp hold it until I got back. Where it did leave some residue. (because in order to put new bolts or tighten the top part you need to completely remove it from the trunk.)












    Some more shots, and of my white car with bekkers low rise.








    Bekkers,





    Last edited by Bsaint; 01-24-2011 at 02:37 PM.

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    Call it what you want but every single one that shipped from Asia sags in the middle...




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    Rear Quarter 1 by DinanM3atl, on Flickr


    Rear Quarter 2 by DinanM3atl, on Flickr


    Rear End by DinanM3atl, on Flickr


    And a great photo by Mike...


    huge m3 spastic by DinanM3atl, on Flickr
    Last edited by M3Alpine99; 01-24-2011 at 02:31 PM.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Pa
    Posts
    1,850
    My Cars
    No more BMWs :(
    I got my LTW replica wing from a vendor on this site. BMWE35M5 is the member name. I had it painted and installed by a local body shop.. they said it was fairly easy.





    I like it and it has removable risers just like factory.


    -Nick


  22. #22
    busterhax's Avatar
    busterhax is offline Y̝͎̘̍́ͣ̉͑̿̆Ō͎̼̺̬̒ͯ̃̇͗̂ U͈̖
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    DC
    Posts
    8,376
    My Cars
    CES Turbo 328is
    Quote Originally Posted by FastAlpine View Post
    I got my LTW replica wing from a vendor on this site. BMWE35M5 is the member name. I had it painted and installed by a local body shop.. they said it was fairly easy.

    I like it and it has removable risers just like factory.
    I like his because it's plastic like factory as well. No fiberglass.

    The only reason I don't have a LTW right now is because of the increased attention from the 5-0.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Charlotte,NC
    Posts
    4,973
    My Cars
    2 black ones
    not sure where it came from since I it was on the car when I bought it.....it is a good quality wing...maybe brad can chime in...






  24. #24
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    La, Ca
    Posts
    12
    My Cars
    E30
    sweet shots!

  25. #25
    busterhax's Avatar
    busterhax is offline Y̝͎̘̍́ͣ̉͑̿̆Ō͎̼̺̬̒ͯ̃̇͗̂ U͈̖
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    DC
    Posts
    8,376
    My Cars
    CES Turbo 328is
    Quote Originally Posted by PHARMDVIPER View Post
    not sure where it came from since I it was on the car when I bought it.....it is a good quality wing...maybe brad can chime in...




    2 or 4 piece?

    4=Probably MA Shaw but could be eBay.
    2=More than likely eBay.

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