Detailing 101: Common Question and Answers, What and Where to buy stuff + Technique

[Treepusher]

Perhaps I missed this one, but I've got a question. If you've done three coats of SG, then topped it off with P21S (or any other carnauba) and re-wax every few weeks, why is there a need to re-apply the SG every six months? Wouldn't the SG be 'sealed in' and protected itself by the wax? Why not just keep waxing? Or does the SG disintegrate in the sun, even with the wax protection?

[David]

Perhaps I missed this one, but I've got a question. If you've done three coats of SG, then topped it off with P21S (or any other carnauba) and re-wax every few weeks, why is there a need to re-apply the SG every six months? Wouldn't the SG be 'sealed in' and protected itself by the wax? Why not just keep waxing? Or does the SG disintegrate in the sun, even with the wax protection?

Good question. You'll find that the wax and SG will wear away together, despite the wax being over top. Also, it is good to give the car a detail once or twice a year. You can evaluate as per your situation. If you feel the protection is wearing away after 6 months, then reapply. However if you think it is still good, then wait a bit longer. Just wax when you feel like it. Another option is to not top with a wax and just throw on a coat of SG when you think it needs some sprucing up.

[Treepusher]

Apologies, this is a long question. I've been happily using the Klasse twins and P21S, but after all the strong recommendations I've read, thought I'd give the Zaino system a try.

So I washed with Dawn, clayed, washed again (this time with Meguiar's Gold Class) and blotted dry. Applied three coats of Z2Pro/ZFX, a coat of Z6 in between coats, then Z8 to finish. Looked terrific, and was very pleased!

Had to drive it, so washed again two days later(Meguiar's), applied yet another coat of Z2Pro/ZFX, then sealed with Z8. Again looked terrific.

Got caught the following night in a thunderstorm, no time to dry it off (very late at night), but not worried since figured it was well-protected and garaged. The following morning, the car was covered with dried water spots and pollen (it's that time of year) so I washed it (Meguiar's), assuming the water spots would clean right off. They did not.

Nor would they buff out, even with the PC. Tried using first the Z6 (did nothing) then another coat of Z2Pro/ZFX, but took a fair amount of rubbing (don't like rubbing my paint!!!) to get rid of most of the spots. What the devil is this?

Does Zaino stain every time it gets caught out in the rain? While I don't mind babying the finish, I'm not sure I like the idea of having to thoroughly dry a car at 3 A.M. Never had a problem like this before with the Klasse and P21S, even with two winters in snow, rain and ice, which often didn't get dried right away.

Is it therefore necessary to wax over the Zaino? I thought this negated the advantages of using Zaino in the first place... Or did I do something wrong? I've written the folks at Zaino, but have received no response from them.

TIA for your advice/comments.

[drw1926]

Is it therefore necessary to wax over the Zaino? I thought this negated the advantages of using Zaino in the first place... Or did I do something wrong? I've written the folks at Zaino, but have received no response from them.

TIA for your advice/comments.

Treepusher-

The local distributor here in NJ is Shore Motorsports (actually right down the street from the Zaino folks). They can be reached at (732) 364-7997...ask for Jon. I bought my Zaino stuff there in person. I had a few questions about using the Zaino & he had some great information, so he may be able to help.

I've got the same issue as far as the damn pollen covering the car within 15 minutes after washing it (gotta love that Jet Black...) But I have not had any problems with the "water spots from hell" that you are encountering. Perhaps there is some kind of tree/plant in your area whose pollen becomes very acidic when mixed with water? Acid rain? The only flaw in this theory though is, why this didn't occur prior when you were using Klasse/P21S?

Although it has been a bit time & labour intensive, I have been very satisfied with Zaino's stuff, with no waterspot issues as you describe. The black is a beyotch this time of year, but when it's clean...

[David]

Apologies, this is a long question. I've been happily using the Klasse twins and P21S, but after all the strong recommendations I've read, thought I'd give the Zaino system a try.

So I washed with Dawn, clayed, washed again (this time with Meguiar's Gold Class) and blotted dry. Applied three coats of Z2Pro/ZFX, a coat of Z6 in between coats, then Z8 to finish. Looked terrific, and was very pleased!

Had to drive it, so washed again two days later(Meguiar's), applied yet another coat of Z2Pro/ZFX, then sealed with Z8. Again looked terrific.

Got caught the following night in a thunderstorm, no time to dry it off (very late at night), but not worried since figured it was well-protected and garaged. The following morning, the car was covered with dried water spots and pollen (it's that time of year) so I washed it (Meguiar's), assuming the water spots would clean right off. They did not.

Nor would they buff out, even with the PC. Tried using first the Z6 (did nothing) then another coat of Z2Pro/ZFX, but took a fair amount of rubbing (don't like rubbing my paint!!!) to get rid of most of the spots. What the devil is this?

Does Zaino stain every time it gets caught out in the rain? While I don't mind babying the finish, I'm not sure I like the idea of having to thoroughly dry a car at 3 A.M. Never had a problem like this before with the Klasse and P21S, even with two winters in snow, rain and ice, which often didn't get dried right away.

Is it therefore necessary to wax over the Zaino? I thought this negated the advantages of using Zaino in the first place... Or did I do something wrong? I've written the folks at Zaino, but have received no response from them.

TIA for your advice/comments.

I have no real experience in dealing with nasty water spots (hopefully never will), but I have heard some other users report that freshly applied carnuba wax protects better from hard water spots than zaino. I don't know why this is. If you want, go ahead and try topping with P21S for added protection.

[Chuck]

The real question is... what is the safest and most successful way to get rid of waterspots?

[David]

First try claying the spots. They could be dried on mineral deposits from the water sitting on the surface. If that does not get rid of them, then you can safely assume the spots have etched the clear coat and will need to be polished out in the same manner as swirl marks. Start with the least agressive pad and polish combo and work your way up in agressiveness if needed.

[Treepusher]

Thanks for all your comments. From the sounds of it, I'm going to have to use the wax to prevent the water spots, and I guess that's going to push me back into the Klasse camp again.

If I don't wax, it sounds like I'll have to clay the entire car every time it rains, that presumably will remove the Zaino and render it cost and time-prohibitive to constantly re-apply, since it rains about every other day during the typical Massachusetts spring. Not to mention I'd go thru a lot of clay!

Looks to me like up-front costs on the Klasse twins/P21S and Zaino are fairly close, but the Klasse contains more than enough SG to last for several years of twice-yearly multi-coat use (and one jar of P21S lasted me just over a year, waxing at least once a month). The Zaino Z2Pro/ZFX (8 oz. bottle) mix looks more like about two or maybe three good multi-coat applications, with Z5, Z6 and Z8 adding to the overall price, plus your wax (if needed, and apparently I do...).

With a good slathering of wax over the Zaino, maybe the price evens out in the end (presumably you wouldn't have to use the Z6 or Z8 if you've waxed over the Zaino, which would bring down total costs).

I'd be curious to find out if anyone else has run across the water-spotting problem with the Zaino and how they dealt with it.

[acastillo]

treepusher,
I'm glad you brought this up. I went the full FI2-Klasse route and felt I wasn't 100% satisfied as there were still scratches and swirls (black car) when I was done. Was thinking I would try Zaino to see if the results improved, but now I'll just save the $ and stick with what I have.

David...what do you do when FI2 with a cutting pad does not remove all the scratches/swirls? I went with a more abasive formula from 3m, and still had limited results. Don't want to resort to my old rotary with wool pad...burns too easy.

[David]

treepusher,
I'm glad you brought this up. I went the full FI2-Klasse route and felt I wasn't 100% satisfied as there were still scratches and swirls (black car) when I was done. Was thinking I would try Zaino to see if the results improved, but now I'll just save the $ and stick with what I have.

David...what do you do when FI2 with a cutting pad does not remove all the scratches/swirls? I went with a more abasive formula from 3m, and still had limited results. Don't want to resort to my old rotary with wool pad...burns too easy.

I usually use Finesse It with a cutting pad multiple times on a section until I am happy with the results. Number of times a section is polished will depend on the severity of the swirls.

Now it is possible that the swirls are too deep for the PC to handle. My silver car suffers from this, luckily it is silver, so they don't stand out as much as they would on a black car.

If you decide to use a rotary, don't use a wool pad. It doesn't surprise me that you burn your paint with wool. Get some quality foam pads, start with a mild combination, like a polishing pad with a mild polish like Menzerna FP at 1000-1200 RPM. Get a feel for the machine. That combo may not work so you can move up to a polishing pad and something like Menzerna IP or finesse it.

For a good rotary 101, see this article:

http://www.detailersclub.com/forums/...ead.php?t=1565

[crzysnake135]

hey david


for a 1998 bmw 323is with artic silver paint

what would you recomend as the best wax for the shine and wet look and depth

i do care about durbality but if i have to wax 1-2 times every two months i certianlty will to keep the shine


i was told Pinnacle Souveran Paste Wax but what is your personal favorite


i just dont wanna shell out 70 bucks for something that i wont like on silver paint

[awahl63]

If you're willing to shell out 70 bucks for a wax then Souveran is amazing

[David]

hey david


for a 1998 bmw 323is with artic silver paint

what would you recomend as the best wax for the shine and wet look and depth

i do care about durbality but if i have to wax 1-2 times every two months i certianlty will to keep the shine


i was told Pinnacle Souveran Paste Wax but what is your personal favorite


i just dont wanna shell out 70 bucks for something that i wont like on silver paint

I'm partial towards Zaino because it lasts so long, and I think it looks good on silver. I use it on my silver olds and am very happy with the look. If you use just a paste wax like pinnacle, all on its own, then you won't be getting very much durability and protection. If you really have your heart set on using a carnuba wax, use it over top of Klasse AIO+SG. In terms of wetter vs not wetter, I honestly don't see any of those types of differences. Good paint prep is 99% of the shine. If you do a good job prepping, then any product you use will look the same.

[crzysnake135]

I'm partial towards Zaino because it lasts so long, and I think it looks good on silver. I use it on my silver olds and am very happy with the look. If you use just a paste wax like pinnacle, all on its own, then you won't be getting very much durability and protection. If you really have your heart set on using a carnuba wax, use it over top of Klasse AIO+SG. In terms of wetter vs not wetter, I honestly don't see any of those types of differences. Good paint prep is 99% of the shine. If you do a good job prepping, then any product you use will look the same.

o yea i forgot to mention that i applied the klasse aio and 3 layers of SG about 5 weeks a go

so should i go with the pinical wax for 70 or stick with something a little more affordable (make sugestion here)


-z

[David]

o yea i forgot to mention that i applied the klasse aio and 3 layers of SG about 5 weeks a go

so should i go with the pinical wax for 70 or stick with something a little more affordable (make sugestion here)


-z

Forget the Pinnacle. Grab a jar of S100 from your local harley dealer for $15.

[mixer]

David - thanks for reading my very first post on this forum. I just purchased my first '97 E38 and I won't take up space here to tell you how I feel about it. I will just simply say I love the car. My question pertaining to your post is this, and I apologize if it has already been addressed:
Aside from your well laid out directions above, what tips can you give to me , as an owner of a black E38 if any?
Truly great forum people!

Thanks

[David]

David - thanks for reading my very first post on this forum. I just purchased my first '97 E38 and I won't take up space here to tell you how I feel about it. I will just simply say I love the car. My question pertaining to your post is this, and I apologize if it has already been addressed:
Aside from your well laid out directions above, what tips can you give to me , as an owner of a black E38 if any?
Truly great forum people!

Thanks

I've put most of the things I do in the article. However, I will add that you can also consider taping off your trim, door handles, and molding prior to polishing to protect them from any polish residue. Once you are finished claying your paint, use the same clay and clay your windows and then rims.

In terms of detailing black paint specifically, in one way you are lucky because you will be able to see (much more than on other colours) how well the detail is going and how much hazing you got from heavy polishing (if any). Black can also be frustrating in that sense as well because you do see everything.

Just take your time, relax, and do't be afraind of the PC in general, and don't be afraid to use a polish like Menzerna IP with a cutting pad if needed.

Let us know how the detail goes!

[mixer]

Well, I actually washed the car right after I heard back from you. This is the first chance I have had to let you know how I made out. First, the car was obviously detailed at some time close to when I purchased it. But, I did noticed some swirl marks that concerned me. All over the car really. So, just a bad detail I would say. I washed the car with Mother's pretty much per your instructions. I think I need to get some bigger towels though! I also started using the clay and found that the amount of "dirt" it brought out was so minimal I decided to put it away and try it again later in the year. I do think your method will yield excellent results at that time. At this point, with the sun decending, I decided to use a Black Magic synthetic polish I had purchased to see if I could do something with the swirls. Since I didn't buy the PC yet, this was done by hand. But I did take my time and can report that the swirl marks are gone. The finish definately has the micro swirls you warn of and as soon as I get the time (and the PC) I will work on them. But, man what a finish. Luckily, the car was a one owner and garaged at home and work since new. That helps. So, not exactly by your book but I wanted to let you know I now have a shiny car (by my standards anyway). I have a feeling that I am going to be blown away by the Zaino products and intend to use them asap. I do have one question. What method and product do you use on the bottom "plastic" trim? Thanks again for putting the time into your document.

[David]

mixer,

I'm glad the detail went well. I'm sure the balck magic just filled the swirls in temporarily. Don't be surprised if they reappear after a week or couple of rain storms.

I usually don't put anything on my plastic trim. Most, if not all trim dressings wash off and run after one rain storm. That annoys me more than undressed trim.

[HE53]

Props to David for giving such good advice to everyone.. I have detailed for the past 6 years.. 4 of which were full time and you give some great advice. Just wanted to give some appreciation...

David, if you wanna try some XZYLON I will send you a bottle to try for yourself.. I just want your opinion after you try it. At the dealership I work for they sell it as a Pro-Pack for 700 bucks with a scotch guard and mink oil service.. I don't know what to think of this stuff and want another opinion. Apperently they put this stuff on all the new Boeing jets.. If you wanna try it, PM me and Ill send you a bottle.

I have used a lot of paint sealants etc, but this stuff is kinda weird, and seems to work pretty well. They spray paint the cars on the show room floor that have this product applyed to them.

[David]

Hi kesslerbmw;

Thanks very much for the kind words. I'm glad the members have found the thread helpful.

As to your offer, thank you very much. Again I appreciate it. It's very nice of you. However, I'm going to have to decline. I'm very happy with Zaino, and am at the point where I no longer test products anymore (too many overhyped fads that have come and gone and left a bad taste in my mouth). But thank you again, I do appreciate it.

[HE53]

Hi kesslerbmw;

Thanks very much for the kind words. I'm glad the members have found the thread helpful.

As to your offer, thank you very much. Again I appreciate it. It's very nice of you. However, I'm going to have to decline. I'm very happy with Zaino, and am at the point where I no longer test products anymore (too many overhyped fads that have come and gone and left a bad taste in my mouth). But thank you again, I do appreciate it.

Im not trying to sell you this stuff... I was just wanting someone else to try it and see what they thought of the stuff. If you wanna use some on your riding lawn mower or something let me know Ill send you some to try.

[David]

Im not trying to sell you this stuff... I was just wanting someone else to try it and see what they thought of the stuff. If you wanna use some on your riding lawn mower or something let me know Ill send you some to try.

hahaha! I know you were not trying to sell me any!

Thanks again for the offer.

[Dementor]

Im really sorry bout this I read the whole guide b4 but I don't remebr if this question was answered b4!!! Sorry

Anyways I have mild "swirlys" o my car they are not that bad and mostly only on the hood and roof, but I was wondering if Klass AIO will be able to take that out or will I need ot get some stronger polish, seeing as Klasse is considered a "paint cleaner" I keep reading different things... What is the word on this?
Thanks

[95RogueM3]

Im really sorry bout this I read the whole guide b4 but I don't remebr if this question was answered b4!!! Sorry

Anyways I have mild "swirlys" o my car they are not that bad and mostly only on the hood and roof, but I was wondering if Klass AIO will be able to take that out or will I need ot get some stronger polish, seeing as Klasse is considered a "paint cleaner" I keep reading different things... What is the word on this?
Thanks

AIO doesnt have enough cut to remove much in the way of swirls or paint imperfections. You will need to step up to a more abrasive polish to remove swirls ie: 3m FI2, PoorBoys SSR Line, Menzerna, etc, etc.