Found something interesting while fixing "5th gear lean"

**10aet2** · 12-31-2010, 07:39 AM

I am doing the shift pin and detent fix on my transmission right now, and my Reverse pin and 5th gear pin are identical (both have straight slants). This transmission is all original and has never been apart, so the ZF guys apparently built it that way. Some searching on the net showed a few others found the same thing. However, almost all the DIYs, RealOEM, etc. show that the pins should be different. They have different part numbers and are visually different between their slants on the end. All of the literature shows that the 5th gear pin should have a curved slant. However, mine was built with a 5th gear pin with a straight slant.

The interesting thing is that there is a BIG difference between these two pins when installed in the transmission. The straight slant pin gives the 5th gear gate about the same resistance of the 1st gear gate. The curved pin gives the 5th gear gate quite a bit more resistance. The other BIG difference is that these two pins give different neutral positions for the shifter. It comes out to about 1/4" at the shifter. The straight pin makes the neutral position directly between 1st and 5th gates. The curved pin makes the shifter sit closer to the 5th gear gate.

So now I am trying to figure out if ZF made a mistake and installed the wrong pin on a batch of transmissions, or if some were supposed to be built like that. RealOEM does show footnotes on the 5th gear pin, something to the effect that the pin should be used only in conjuction with the appropriate stop thru 1/99.

For those that haven't done the detent fix (and you don't have 5th gear lean), does your shifter give you equal resistance between 1st and 5th gear gates? Is your neutral position dead center between 1st and 5th gear gates?

**sirius815** · 12-31-2010, 09:28 AM

Interesting - my neutral is between 1st and 5th. I haven't had my transmission out yet to do a clutch change - it'll probably be a while before I do. When I do get to doing the job, I"ll make sure to check my pins.

Thanks for the heads up.

**RagnarDanskjold** · 12-31-2010, 12:30 PM

Subscrizzled. I pulled my 230k/mi original out of my '95 and put in a trans out of a '99, but didn't think to do the fix before I installed it. My original never had the detent issue but the new one definitely does. AND the slack into 3rd is very noticeable. I can see how easily one could money-shift.

Great find. I'll be looking for this when I rebuild the original and the '99. Thanks for sharing.

**hinds90** · 12-31-2010, 12:39 PM

So you have to pull the trans out to do this fix. I definatley have a 5th gear lean.

**Volf** · 12-31-2010, 01:02 PM

Originally Posted by hinds90

So you have to pull the trans out to do this fix. I definatley have a 5th gear lean.

Yes transmission has to come out.

**kevinwilly** · 01-01-2011, 03:05 PM

On my car, it's harder to get into 5th gear than any other gear (except reverse). On my friends 2001 528i (same tranny), it's MUCH easier to get into 5th than my car.

Both shifters have the same centering (which is in the middle).

I suspect that this has something to do with the pin in question... I have always wondered why his was so much easier to get over there. Interesting....

**99GREENM3** · 01-01-2011, 06:55 PM

^^ Same here harder to get into 5th than 1st

**10aet2** · 01-01-2011, 10:11 PM

I took measurements today on the spacing between all of the different gates (1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th) of the transmission. The great thing about performing these measurements while the transmission is out of the car is all of the shifter linkage slop is out of the picture. At least on my transmission, the 3rd/4th gear gates are not exactly centered between 1st and 5th. The 3rd/4th gear gates are closer to the 5th gear gate.

Based off of this discovery, I kept swapping shift pins into the bore and figured out which pin made the shifter line up more with the 3rd/4th gear gates. The obvious reasoning behind this is because when you select 3rd, you should be able to let the shifter detents take it to neutral and then push straight up to get to third.

What I found was that the "curved" slant pin put it exactly in line with the 3rd/4th gear gates. Since the 3rd/4th gear gates are closer to the 5th gear gate than 1st, the "curved" slant pin centers the shifter a little more to the right and that lines up exactly with the 3rd/4th gear gates.

So I went with the curved slant pin. I am going on the assumption that the ZF assembly line accidentally put the Reverse shift pin into the 5th gear bore which might not be too far fetched since others have seen the same thing on their transmissions. Once I put the transmission back into the car, I will find out the following:
1. If I screwed up and my transmission really needed the straight slant (based off of my measurements that shouldn't be the case).
2. If I like the extra resistance going into 5th gear.
3. If I like the neutral position of the shifter a little closer to 5th gear.

**sirius815** · 11-21-2011, 07:07 PM

Raise from the dead!

^^ Any word on those last 3 points?

**10aet2** · 11-21-2011, 08:59 PM

I forgot I started this thread and forgot to update it! Here are my answers:

1. My transmission didn't really need the straight slant pin. The shifter goes through the gates perfectly with the curved slant pin.
2. I actually like the extra resistance going into 5th gear. I immediately got used to it and it isn't a lot harder than going into 1st gear.
3. I can barely tell that there is a difference between the distance between neutral and 1st and neutral and 5th.

If you find that your transmission has both straight slant pins, I wouldn't hesitate to put the curved slant pin in the transmission.

**RahgBag** · 11-21-2011, 11:31 PM

Definitely doing this when I have a spare weekend. Mine does the 5th slant for the first 5 minutes when it's cold, and the first shift into 5th is very difficult. It's fine afterwards, just annoying.

**BMWMPow3r** · 11-22-2011, 10:07 AM

hmmm, interesting

**RatedM3** · 03-05-2013, 09:59 AM

Originally Posted by 10aet2

I am doing the shift pin and detent fix on my transmission right now, and my Reverse pin and 5th gear pin are identical (both have straight slants). This transmission is all original and has never been apart, so the ZF guys apparently built it that way. Some searching on the net showed a few others found the same thing. However, almost all the DIYs, RealOEM, etc. show that the pins should be different. They have different part numbers and are visually different between their slants on the end. All of the literature shows that the 5th gear pin should have a curved slant. However, mine was built with a 5th gear pin with a straight slant.

The interesting thing is that there is a BIG difference between these two pins when installed in the transmission. The straight slant pin gives the 5th gear gate about the same resistance of the 1st gear gate. The curved pin gives the 5th gear gate quite a bit more resistance. The other BIG difference is that these two pins give different neutral positions for the shifter. It comes out to about 1/4" at the shifter. The straight pin makes the neutral position directly between 1st and 5th gates. The curved pin makes the shifter sit closer to the 5th gear gate.

So now I am trying to figure out if ZF made a mistake and installed the wrong pin on a batch of transmissions, or if some were supposed to be built like that. RealOEM does show footnotes on the 5th gear pin, something to the effect that the pin should be used only in conjuction with the appropriate stop thru 1/99.

For those that haven't done the detent fix (and you don't have 5th gear lean), does your shifter give you equal resistance between 1st and 5th gear gates? Is your neutral position dead center between 1st and 5th gear gates?

Add me to the list of having the same exact experience. My cars build date is 11/97. Found this when I did it but never looked into it until now.

**pbonsalb** · 03-05-2013, 10:51 AM

The two pins are different but you really have to study them closely to notice. It took me a while with brand new pins. Worn ones would be harder.

**Crustashio** · 03-05-2013, 12:25 PM

I *just* did this fix a few weeks ago. My experience:

1) The 5th/reverse pins I removed from the transmission were the same. Same slant, same size for the oil(?) hole at the end. I checked with some calipers and an angle gauge. The pins I ordered according to realOEM were visibly different. Reverse had a straight slant, 5th had a 2-step - some might call it curved, but it it's just 2 different angles. The hole at the end was slightly smaller. I installed the 2 step slant in the 5th gear location as per the factory manual. No difference in fit.

2) The difference in "feel" between the 1st and 5th springs is noticable, but I think that is intentional. My 6spd ZHP had the same feel. 1st was very light, but 5th felt like it had slightly more friction. If the main centering spring was the same length as the 5th spring you could probably substitute it to get similar feel for both gates, assuming the pin slant was the same. Only way to check is either remove it when doing the service, or order #15 (23311224819) and compare it to #11 (23311224935).

3) Both the 5th and reverse pins let the shifter overtravel, probably for ease of engaging those gears. With 5th engaged I can nudge further to the right.

4) Shifter position feels no different, pretty much right in the 3rd/4th gate.

I won't have the car back together until april, but sitting on stands with no transmission fluid the shift action feels great with the clutch in. Still using the stock shifter but with an AKG selector rod and UHMW carrier bushings.

Out of curiosity, was anyone able to get the old 5th/reverse bushings out of their bores without marring it? It doesn't really matter once you sand down the high spots but it bugged me.

**Jrrrrrrr** · 03-05-2013, 12:30 PM

My ZF in an 11/98-build car came with the slanted and curved detent plungers installed as needed in the 5th/reverse bores. However, the detent-fix kit I ordered came with 2 slanted, non-curved plungers. I ended up reusing the curved plunger and replacing the slanted one.

The individual plungers are steel and do not appear to wear too much compared to a new part, from what I've seen. What is much more important here is to replace the bushings and springs for these plungers.

**RND1** · 03-05-2013, 03:22 PM

Originally Posted by 10aet2

The interesting thing is that there is a BIG difference between these two pins when installed in the transmission. The straight slant pin gives the 5th gear gate about the same resistance of the 1st gear gate. The curved pin gives the 5th gear gate quite a bit more resistance. The other BIG difference is that these two pins give different neutral positions for the shifter. It comes out to about 1/4" at the shifter. The straight pin makes the neutral position directly between 1st and 5th gates. The curved pin makes the shifter sit closer to the 5th gear gate.

So, can anyone confirm which detent pin is correct from the factory? I evidently put in the curved pin in my 6/98 build and my shifter neutral position is 1/4 right of center. Not sure it's worth dropping the tranny to fix this, but those with the curved pin from the factory - is the neutral position of your shifter 1/4 right of center?

Originally Posted by Jrrrrrrr

My ZF in an 11/98-build car came with the slanted and curved detent plungers installed as needed in the 5th/reverse bores. However, the detent-fix kit I ordered came with 2 slanted, non-curved plungers. I ended up reusing the curved plunger and replacing the slanted one.

The individual plungers are steel and do not appear to wear too much compared to a new part, from what I've seen. What is much more important here is to replace the bushings and springs for these plungers.

So Jrrrrrr, is your shifter dead center or 1/4 in right of center with the curved detent pin and was it like that from the factory?

**pbonsalb** · 03-05-2013, 03:42 PM

I have been driving with the FCP Euro kit detent pins, one curved and one straight, for six months. No issues. Car shifts great. I had actually previously done the 5th and Reverse about 5 years ago, but did them again along with the others six months ago, and cannot recall what part numbers I used back then or remember how it drove when I got it used 8 years ago.

**dano670** · 03-05-2013, 03:46 PM

I think I drove the detent pin cap in too far as my car likes to go into 5th easy but 1st gear requires a lot more effort.

**Gordo0208** · 08-21-2017, 08:26 AM

Did anyone else have a problem putting the pins (5th and reverse) back in?
I bought all the OEM tools, lubed the bushings and detents but the detents get stick going on.
They go in 1/4 of the way and the rest has to be pushed in with a lot of force. And when I put the trans in 5th (trans still out of the car) it barely pushes the pin and still leans towards 5th (I can visually see it at the shift selector).
Anyone run into this problem?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

**pbonsalb** · 08-21-2017, 12:34 PM

If you scratched the bore removing the old sleeve, the new sleeve will deform slightly making the fit tighter and the fit is already tight. You could do the job over again and grind or polish out any scratch or you could sand down the sleeve or detent a little until it fits better, but those are not the best choices.