'92 325i Cabrio - Repair of EM Top

[jaydeep]

You may want to try this first, only because its far cheaper.
http://www.e30ic.com/strapfix.htm

I did lot of search and came across this post
1) I tried to see if there is power at coils at the black box. When I tap on coils motor moved so there is power.

2. I re-engaged the top motor and the lid motor. .

3. Next, I adjusted the micro-switches and followed the other procedures listed on Michael's site -- www.e30ic.com/powertop.htm

But still power top is not working

[demcgee07]

digging up old info but I havent seen my issue addressed. I picked up a 91 vert last week. has a new top on it. figured i'd sync it up and see if it works. ive tried everything, kinda goin nuts. only thing that happens is when I press the open button you can hear the relay click in the control module. I know it syncronized because if I sync it impropperly on purpose, the module no longer clicks when the button is pressed.

[demcgee07]

please help

[bradnic]

did you get it fixed?

[mtpablo33]

Hey folks- my first post. I got a '92 Vert that hasn't run in 10 years. My uncle and I replaced the timing belt, gave it a full tune up, replaced all the belts/hoses/fluids last week. Tomorrow is fuel pump and radiator. With any luck it will fire up and I can move onto the real project...THE POWER TOP!

I know to release the latches, push up on the top to remove the tension. When I do this and hit the power top button, I hear a whirring from the back but nothing happens. How can I tell if I need the Christian Bracket from Germany (where do I get access and can I do it without disengaging the top) or could the boot be stuck after years of not moving? I am planning on checking the relays mentioned for power but thought I would seek your help. Nadodude, where are you?!

[simonw]

Hi there,
I have been working on my E30 convertible for some time now. When I bought it, it was what you refer to as semi automatic. The original control unit has been replaced with 4 relays so it worked as follows:
1) open the top compartment lid (tonneau cover) using 'open top' button
2) pull or put the top manually from/to the compartment
3) closed top lid with a 'top close' button
The previous owner did all that because of the broken top motor cover which was taken out from the car completely.
As all the parts (top motor,control unit, rods, etc.) were included with the car I have decided to return it to its original functionality.

After hours of reading this and other similar forums (incl. www.e30ic.com/powertop.htm) I have bought the motor cover fix plate from germany (the one that you screw on the top of the motor from the top compartment side).
Once it has arrived I have started the fun part - work on that.
Installed control unit removing the 4 relay fix, installed all the rods, synchronized whole system. I was very happy when I saw my top moving up and down with a push of the button. Almost a full success but...

Issue 1 when the top is down (in its compartment) and the lid starts closing it gets fine to the point where it needs to push the top a bit in, squeeze it in. In this moment there is extreme clicking or grinding noise coming from the top lid motor/gear box. It seems that the gears are jumping once any pressure comes/ requires an effort to push the top this bit in.
Issue 2 when helping the motor by pressing the lid with my hand to close and latch the lid it seems the the top itself does not fit in. I am not sure if this is because of an extra 3 or 4 mm from the fix plate installed or there is something else wrong with the top. Before the fix when the top motor was out of the car the top fitted there perfectly and the lid was closing fine. Also once the lid latch (with hand help) I can see that it is not perfectly sitting on the seal as there is probably a 2 or 3 mm gap between the lid and the body of the car letting the water in. That would not be a problem as you do not drive with top down during the rain but it stops me from using my hard top as then the rain will get in.

One the good side I can close the top without getting out of the car e.g. waiting on the traffic light. On the bad taking the top down is an nightmare of a job with getting in and out, trying to press the lid and the button in the same time.

Two questions:
May the fix plate be too high and cause the top not to fit in?
Why are gears jumping in the top lid motor when closing and pushing down the top?

[htseng]

I never posted the final segment of my soft top saga.

It was not the lid cables that required adjusting. Rather, it was the micro-switch (with orange painted screw) that controls the top storage compartment lid that required additional adjustment.

It was never a cable issue; I realized this as I thought through the issue. The cables had never been 'tinkered with' so there was no reason to adjust them.

Instead, I concentrated on the micro-switch that controls the top storage compartment lid. I kept adjusting it -- followed by lowering the top to test top lid closure-- until it was adjusted correctly and the top lid locked in place.

Bottom line -- My automatic top works 4.0.

How did I get my top up and running? In addition to a lot of help received from this forum, I did the following:

1. Fixed my top motor by ordering a new bracket from Germany. This part can be found at this link -- http://cgi.ebay.de/BMW-E30-Cabrio-Re...item41547455c1

2. With above part installed I re-engaged the top motor and the lid motor. My particular top motor needed to be disassembled to get it re-engaged. This appears the exception. However, if you need to do this, it's not hard to do.

3. Next, I adjusted the micro-switches and followed the other procedures listed on Michael's site -- www.e30ic.com/powertop.htm

4. Had to replace the tension straps on my convertible top because my original straps had lost there elasticity. As a result, the top was not folding correctly into the storage compartment. Using new after market straps my local upholstery shop replaced both straps for under $350.

5. Finally, could not get the lid to lock when either the top was down or completely up. I thought it was a cable problem -- it was not. Fixed this problem by further adjusting the micro-switch (the one with the orange painted screw).

The automatic top runs great. Because of the new and improved bracket on the top motor I can open and close the top -- often stopping and reversing it mid-sequence (for maintenance or cleaning purposes) -- without fear of the bracket bending, distorting and breaking.

Hope this summary helps.

Kind regards,

CAPTBob73

Bob, how did you adjust the micro switch to tighten the lid? Did you just turn the Orange screw, left or right? Did u have to disengage the latch motor to adjust?

[honda.lioness]

My friend's 1992 E30 electro-mechanical convertible top was not working. I applied 12 volts directly to each of the two motors in the trunk, and they both worked fine. Then I checked the control unit, and in particular, its relays (a.k.a. "coils"). See photos below. I found two relays were not working.


contrunc.jpg
The control unit is located in the trunk, against the back of the rear seat. It will have a connector plugged into it, holding about 16 wires.


ControlUnitInside.JPG
The control unit's insides. One of the relays is circled in pink. To disassemble, look for little clips. The control unit casing comes apart pretty easily once you see all the little clips. Prying the clips just a bit with a small, thin screwdriver helps in disassembly.


Battery2.JPG
Control unit circuit board removed from casing, turned over, and set for testing the control unit's relays. The battery I used was a 6-volt large flashlight battery.


Battery1.JPG
Zoom in showing the detail of how to connect to the terminals of one of the relays. A correctly functioning relay will make a noticeable clicking noise when voltage is applied (and removed?).

I found that six microswitches should also be checked as follows, per numerous web sites. Special credit to 75golf02 at
http://forum.roadfly.com/threads/106...relay-location, whom I paraphrase below:

From the wiring schematic, the 'dead point microswitch,' also known as the "cowl panel switch," is located on the windshield header, passenger (= right) side. Remove the two sun visors (four screws). This microswitch is fixed to the spot where the passenger side latch mechanism meets the header. This microswitch won't let the dashboard switch work unless the soft top has been pushed back from the windshield so it's okay to start the opening sequence. Mine was bad (failed shut to complete the circuit) but this didn't have any impact on the system. The system just thought the top was already unlocked and pushed up.

A sort of mystery microswitch is in the soft top's box (where the soft stop is stored when it is down), near the driver's side latch for holding the top and lid down, virtually underneath where the folding mechanism bolts to the body. I’m assuming (I know, dangerous) it tells the computer when the top is fully retracted, as it is switched on only when the top is all the way down. This microswitch also turns off power to the rear window defroster when the soft top is down.

For the remaining four switches, remove the forwardmost trunk trim that covers the two top motors. Oherwise it will be impossible to access the motors and remaining microswitches. With a work light you can see stamped into the motors' metal casings the switch designations, S1, S2, S3, S4. These correspond to the wiring schematic.

The top motor microswitches S1 and S2 are hard to see. They are on the right of the top motor, partially hidden behind a bracket that is attached to the bottom of the motor. Sprawl your body about halfway into the trunk on the passenger side, and you’ll have a better view. 75golf02 did not adjust his at all. He said he did clean out a bunch of grease that had leaked down over time from the gear assembly. S1 and S2 were gummed up such that one of the switches wasn’t turning off when it should. I would be /very/ leery of adjusting these switches unless absolutely necessary. I’m no electrical engineer, but it would seem that these switches serve several functions, telling the computer when the rear bow is up, or fully in the well, and where the top is in its sequence. If one of these is moved out of adjustment the wrong way it could screw up your top motor.

The top lid motor microswitches S3 and S4 are mounted to the left of the motor, behind a black metal bracket. See the photo below. Just under the limit switches is where you disengage the motor in case the system has failed. To the left of the bracket is a small plastic screw (painted orange, usually) where you actually do the adjustment. You may have to loosen the mounting bolt at the far left to get the adjusting screw to move. A multimeter will tell you exactly when the switches are opening and closing (and whether or not they’re good). All 75golf02 did was give the screw a small turn and his system was working. 75golf02 believes S3 is closed, and S4 is open. The microswitches move in unison, so by turning the screw one way both microswitches move an equal distance, ditto the opposite direction.

lidmotor1.jpg

A new control unit would cost about $500. My friend and I are now considering converting to an all-manual top. Stu at stujohn24[at]gmail.com sells a conversion kit for a few hundred dollars. Stu got back to me within a day with the current price. Here is his video and another, longer video that may be helpful:


https://youtu.be/CxV9dgID_Gw


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYVlwMQkE_E

[bradnic]

Nice work doing the troubleshooting!

Unless you have a low mile collector car, or are an OEM+ obsessed owner like me, repairing the electric top mechanism is probably not worth the effort. I of course have a 7/90 build manual top car that I’m converting to electric top - because I can lol.

If you do decide to convert, and you’re interested in selling the main top motor please drop me a PM.

[82eye]

[bradnic]

Vulture reference? Lol not subtle are ya

[82eye]

no. not at all.

just teasin' lol.

[honda.lioness]

Nice work doing the troubleshooting!

Unless you have a low mile collector car, or are an OEM+ obsessed owner like me, repairing the electric top mechanism is probably not worth the effort. I of course have a 7/90 build manual top car that I’m converting to electric top - because I can lol.

This helps.

If you do decide to convert, and you’re interested in selling the main top motor please drop me a PM.

Will do.

Update:
The soft top's motor is held in place by six screws, accessible from above the deck from which the motor hangs. The screw affixing to the center of the motor was difficult to get out. I finally took a sharp chisel to it. This was despite having soaked the screw in PB Blaster. Ugh. For the record, it is a right-handed thread (that is, remove by rotating in the usual counterclockwise direction). I think part of the problem with the screw is that the threads cover only about half the screw's length. Torquing it with an allen wrench from the top would not get torque directly to the threads? Photos of the damage I did and the screw follow. I think the screw is M5X40-8.8-ZN-SW, part number 07119900823. The new replacement screw is now threaded all the way to the top. Costs about a buck plus shipping. (The old screw has part number #07119900822.) See http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=54_0173



trunkorientation.jpg marredtop.jpg femaleside.jpg screwhead.jpgscrew.jpg

I engaged the motor and applied 6 volts in both directions. It seems to works fine.

[bradnic]

Sent you a couple of PMs with info

[Xelo]

Hi there,
I have been working on my E30 convertible for some time now. When I bought it, it was what you refer to as semi automatic. The original control unit has been replaced with 4 relays so it worked as follows:
1) open the top compartment lid (tonneau cover) using 'open top' button
2) pull or put the top manually from/to the compartment
3) closed top lid with a 'top close' button
The previous owner did all that because of the broken top motor cover which was taken out from the car completely.
As all the parts (top motor,control unit, rods, etc.) were included with the car I have decided to return it to its original functionality.

After hours of reading this and other similar forums (incl. www.e30ic.com/powertop.htm) I have bought the motor cover fix plate from germany (the one that you screw on the top of the motor from the top compartment side).
Once it has arrived I have started the fun part - work on that.
Installed control unit removing the 4 relay fix, installed all the rods, synchronized whole system. I was very happy when I saw my top moving up and down with a push of the button. Almost a full success but...

Issue 1 when the top is down (in its compartment) and the lid starts closing it gets fine to the point where it needs to push the top a bit in, squeeze it in. In this moment there is extreme clicking or grinding noise coming from the top lid motor/gear box. It seems that the gears are jumping once any pressure comes/ requires an effort to push the top this bit in.
Issue 2 when helping the motor by pressing the lid with my hand to close and latch the lid it seems the the top itself does not fit in. I am not sure if this is because of an extra 3 or 4 mm from the fix plate installed or there is something else wrong with the top. Before the fix when the top motor was out of the car the top fitted there perfectly and the lid was closing fine. Also once the lid latch (with hand help) I can see that it is not perfectly sitting on the seal as there is probably a 2 or 3 mm gap between the lid and the body of the car letting the water in. That would not be a problem as you do not drive with top down during the rain but it stops me from using my hard top as then the rain will get in.

One the good side I can close the top without getting out of the car e.g. waiting on the traffic light. On the bad taking the top down is an nightmare of a job with getting in and out, trying to press the lid and the button in the same time.

Two questions:
May the fix plate be too high and cause the top not to fit in?
Why are gears jumping in the top lid motor when closing and pushing down the top?

Hi,

Did u managed to solve issue #2? I'm having the same problem not being able to close lid because of the soft top sticking out on passenger side.