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Thread: Does VANOS failure cause power loss, and can it happen fast?

  1. #1
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    Does VANOS failure cause power loss, and can it happen fast?

    I've been noticing a knock noise for the past week coming from my vanos. Up until last night it was just noise but now I'm noticing a lot of power loss. My engine doesn't pull as much and my MPG has gotten worse, I need to use a lot more pedal than I'm used to. This all happened in one day.

    No codes, engine idles and sounds (aside from the knock) great, starts up cold well too. Just as of last night, it's a lot slower and it sucks.

    I changed the fuel filter this morning, put in a heavier oil (10W-40) and even seafoamed it...still doesn't feel quite right.

    Is it normal for VANOS to fuck up and cause power loss within a one or two day period? If so, I'll have the VANOS rebuilt this week but I don't want to pay to have that done and have my car still run slow.

    Here's a video of the knock:

    http://www.youtube.com/justinglavin#p/a/u/1/jPE5VtcV-hA

    Any help would be nice...this really sucks. I've never felt the car slow like this as long as I've owned it

  2. #2
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    Yes and no. It can happen overnight but it's rare. What's happening is you've been losing low end torque and mpg slowly until recently when it sort of got worse exponentially causing you to see a lot in one shot.

    Most likely you'll just need to replace the seals in your VANOS unit. lots of people on this forum have done it with excellent results using the kit from Beisan systems. Not too expensive either. Just make sure you know what you're doing or that you're bringing it to someone who's rebuilt VANOS units in the past.

    http://beisansystems.com/index.html

  3. #3
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    Before you spend a ton of time and money at this you should get a compressioin test done.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by flyfishvt View Post
    Before you spend a ton of time and money at this you should get a compressioin test done.
    +1, I was waiting for you to chime in with your wisdom. Im gonna drop my car off at a shop on my lunch and get one done tomorrow

    I was also wondering if it might be a coincidence and the problem with my cat (which im trying to get replaced this week as well) has gotten worse and is the cause of the power loss. Maybe its clogged? I do notice my exhaust has sounded a tad raspier than normal in the past few days.

    Just seems correlative that the knocking has gotten louder and im losing power out of nowhere

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by LockDots84 View Post
    Yes and no. It can happen overnight but it's rare. What's happening is you've been losing low end torque and mpg slowly until recently when it sort of got worse exponentially causing you to see a lot in one shot.

    Most likely you'll just need to replace the seals in your VANOS unit. lots of people on this forum have done it with excellent results using the kit from Beisan systems. Not too expensive either. Just make sure you know what you're doing or that you're bringing it to someone who's rebuilt VANOS units in the past.

    http://beisansystems.com/index.html

    I'm having the same symptoms as OP. Do you think, by re-placing the rings/seals in the VANOS, that the ticking noise, mpg and power loss problems will go away without having to re-place the VANOS unit itself?

  6. #6
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    Ive read the DIY on the Beisan website. It seems like the most common issue on Vanos is the seals and not wear and tear on the metal parts. I plan on doing this next spring when it gets warmer. I like the theroy behind their solution. It makes great sense and for the cost of new seals and a valve cover gasket ($65) how can you lose compared to a whole rebuilt vanos. The ticking shoudl go away after the fix if that's what is causing it. The vanos is an important part of the engine but there are a lot of other possible causes for your issues.

    All that being said I expect that you would at least see some improvement on all levels.

  7. #7
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    Ive read the DIY on the Beisan website. It seems like the most common issue on Vanos is the seals and not wear and tear on the metal parts. I plan on doing this next spring when it gets warmer. I like the theroy behind their solution. It makes great sense and for the cost of new seals and a valve cover gasket ($65) how can you lose compared to a whole rebuilt vanos. The ticking shoudl go away after the fix if that's what is causing it. The vanos is an important part of the engine but there are a lot of other possible causes for your issues.

    All that being said I expect that you would at least see some improvement on all levels.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by flyfishvt View Post
    Ive read the DIY on the Beisan website. It seems like the most common issue on Vanos is the seals and not wear and tear on the metal parts. I plan on doing this next spring when it gets warmer. I like the theroy behind their solution. It makes great sense and for the cost of new seals and a valve cover gasket ($65) how can you lose compared to a whole rebuilt vanos. The ticking shoudl go away after the fix if that's what is causing it. The vanos is an important part of the engine but there are a lot of other possible causes for your issues.

    All that being said I expect that you would at least see some improvement on all levels.
    Indeed. The more I read up on VANOS, however, the less I feel like it's the cause of my power loss. Its hard to say though...but since I can't pass smog and the cat was at the top of my priority list anyways, I'm gonna get that put in ASAP. If luck goes my way it will solve my power loss problem and I'll move on to replacing the seals and o-rings on the VANOS which will solve the knock. Luck has not been going my way at all though, it seems like with these E36's the problems all come tumbling down at once.

    Man, last week I was cruisin with a grin on my face everywhere I went..now I'm damn near losing sleep cause of this car. the life of an e36 owner

  9. #9
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    Yeah the more I think about it the more I'm leaning towards cats. The loss of idle rpm without letting up on the throttle is just "classic" cat symptoms. From what I've read on the vanos issue I'd bet all e36's need to have it fixed if they have over 100k.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by flyfishvt View Post
    Yeah the more I think about it the more I'm leaning towards cats. The loss of idle rpm without letting up on the throttle is just "classic" cat symptoms. From what I've read on the vanos issue I'd bet all e36's need to have it fixed if they have over 100k.
    If you're talking about the video, that was actually me pressin up and down on the throttle to try and find the 'sweet spot' of that vanos knock.

    otherwise the car idles perfectly. in the morning on a cold start the needle might bobble when I stop at the light near my house, but thats it.

    nonethless, fingers crossed in the cats. I've got my hands full enough, I don't need more problems now
    http://www.youtube.com/justinglavin#p/a/u/2/y9m7BdCs-zQ

    that needle is nice and solid at about .6k

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by peelsbimmer View Post
    I'm having the same symptoms as OP. Do you think, by re-placing the rings/seals in the VANOS, that the ticking noise, mpg and power loss problems will go away without having to re-place the VANOS unit itself?
    I hope so as I'll be doing it myself soon. I'm trusting it will.

  12. #12
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    Put a brand new cat in today... it should pass smog but I'm still losing lots of power

    Took it by a shop and they tried to pulls some codes...none. Go figure when I take it to a shop the VANOS knock settles down as well.

    They told me it might be my dirty ass K&N Filter...I'm "recharging" it right now. If even feel like that's the problem I'm throwin in the stock airbox.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by illmatik View Post
    Put a brand new cat in today... it should pass smog but I'm still losing lots of power

    Took it by a shop and they tried to pulls some codes...none. Go figure when I take it to a shop the VANOS knock settles down as well.

    They told me it might be my dirty ass K&N Filter...I'm "recharging" it right now. If even feel like that's the problem I'm throwin in the stock airbox.
    dirty air filter causing the noise? If that's what he said, find yourself a new mechanic.

  14. #14
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    Yes. And instantly.
    Current: 08 328i/6 E90, 01 VW GTI VR6, 06 Audi A4 Avant 2.0T (6MT), 97 Range Rover 4.0SE

    Gone: 98 M3/4/5, 05 X5 3.0i, 10 X5 xDrive30i

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by LockDots84 View Post
    dirty air filter causing the noise? If that's what he said, find yourself a new mechanic.
    Nah...the noise wasn't very prevalent when I was showing it to the mech. I don't know what it is but it's not as loud right now...I'm sure it will get louder.

    That being said he was trying to figure out what else could be the cause of the power loss since the VANOS wasn't knocking as hard.

  16. #16
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    i would do the seals first if anything, it's the cheapest to start with

  17. #17
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    Cleaned the air filter, car is still slower :/

    I'm gonna get a compression test done tomorrow. The weird thing is the VANOS knock isn't as loud anymore... I wonder if that 10W-40 had anything to do with it but it was in there when it was knocking louder than shit already. i gotta trace the source of this soon though

    damnit

  18. #18
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    Well the engine oil also lubricates the VANOS system so using thicker oil will definitely quiet it down, i notice the same thing when I go from 15w-30 to 10w-40

  19. #19
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    Yeah. I just don't know what the cause of my power loss is...I don't think it's the VANOS because from what I've read the VANOS is either just making noise and gonna fail later or completely failed in which something is really wrong.

    I can still drive the car just fine but it's got a noticeable power loss. My mechanic took it for a spin and noticed it too. But again, it idles perfectly, no codes, cold starts good.

    the **** is wrong with it :|

  20. #20
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    VANOS can die out in one shot but it generally doesn't. The time it will die altogether is if the controller/solenoid craps out, which it usually doesn't. What happens is the seals get worn and slowly over time loses more and more power. The longer it goes the worse it gets. It will seem like you lost a tone of power out of nowhere but really it's that once the seals start to degrade, they break down slowly at first, and then speed up in the breakdown process. Unless the controller goes bad, you won't get codes either. We're OBD1 so there are fewer electronic traces that leave clues such as codes and lights. Idle won't be affected as it doesn't kick in really until later in the mid-rpm range.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by LockDots84 View Post
    VANOS can die out in one shot but it generally doesn't. The time it will die altogether is if the controller/solenoid craps out, which it usually doesn't. What happens is the seals get worn and slowly over time loses more and more power. The longer it goes the worse it gets. It will seem like you lost a tone of power out of nowhere but really it's that once the seals start to degrade, they break down slowly at first, and then speed up in the breakdown process. Unless the controller goes bad, you won't get codes either. We're OBD1 so there are fewer electronic traces that leave clues such as codes and lights. Idle won't be affected as it doesn't kick in really until later in the mid-rpm range.
    Once again, thanks for your knowledge. I swear, your guys' wisdom is always puttin me at rest. I've been really startin to stress about this motor but if there's a chance it's just some $40 seals and O-Rings for the VANOS then shit... i'll order the kit tonight and do it this weekend.

  22. #22
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    Its not quite that simple but this is a really good DIY on it from the place you get the orings/seals

    http://www.beisansystems.com/procedu..._procedure.htm

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by LockDots84 View Post
    I hope so as I'll be doing it myself soon. I'm trusting it will.
    Will you let me know if it helps you out?

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by flyfishvt View Post
    Its not quite that simple but this is a really good DIY on it from the place you get the orings/seals

    http://www.beisansystems.com/procedu..._procedure.htm
    Beautiful....

    I'm gonna order it now... in the meantime I'm gonna decide if I wanna do it myself or have my mechanic do it on Monday. Either way, it will be done by then and I'll definitely let you guys know how it works. That article describes my symptoms pretty well..

    But this power loss is KILLIN me, I'm so used to using an 1/8th of my pedal to cruise at 65+mph on the highway, I'm damn near using half the pedal now. And to pass somebody? I gotta stomp on the whole thing or downshift. boo!

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