Baur TC1 in the US

[tomscat1]

Congratulations to Steve G on his purchase of Baur #2619, a NEW FIND! He found it on Wichita Craigs List, and it is now in the KC area, where he lives.

Steve is a long-time bimmer fan, having owned about 30 over the years, and this is his first Baur! " I have been a 25 year BMW fan, owning 30some vintage BMWs, (2002s, Bavarias, e21s, e30s, e28s) in various states of functionality and disrepair."

It is a 323i 5 speed with about 100K. More details as we learn them!

Congrats Steve!

More pics:
http://baurspotting.blogspot.com/2012/06/new-baur-find-new-baur-owner.html

[sefb222]

i finally remembered to upload a pic of my baur tag. sorry for the delay.

[tomscat1]

i finally remembered to upload a pic of my baur tag. sorry for the delay.

Thanks for posting sefb222!!

It is indeed a small Baur world.... we have had Baur #4210 on the original list from Jeroen siince Day ONE!!!... We (or at least I) just didnt realize that it was YOURS.

To see what I mean, look at page 1 of this thread, where Jeroen posted the original 33 Baurs he had listed as US Baurs. There you see it: #4210 is right there all the time!

Same with this list:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtrzAT-dK6H1dDhIemd5SVJMSEhMbDRwMW5Td0U4Q2c&hl=en_US#gid= 0
Here, we have #4210 as an unfound Baur, but we also have sefb222's found Baur listed without a Baur number! Two Baurs become one and the same!!

Again!

I love this stuff!

Thanks again, Seth!

[sefb222]

Thanks for posting sefb222!!

It is indeed a small Baur world.... we have had Baur #4210 on the original list from Jeroen siince Day ONE!!!... We (or at least I) just didnt realize that it was YOURS.

To see what I mean, look at page 1 of this thread, where Jeroen posted the original 33 Baurs he had listed as US Baurs. There you see it: #4210 is right there all the time!

Same with this list:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtrzAT-dK6H1dDhIemd5SVJMSEhMbDRwMW5Td0U4Q2c&hl=en_US#gid= 0
Here, we have #4210 as an unfound Baur, but we also have sefb222's found Baur listed without a Baur number! Two Baurs become one and the same!!

Again!

I love this stuff!

Thanks again, Seth!

wild.. i had no idea...

any clue as to what wheels are pictured on the car in that photo?

my car came with quite a bit of hartge stuff...
gauge pod, cam, grill badge, steering wheel, strut bar, and a few other things im forgetting at the moment.

also has a BBS airdam, and BBS mudflaps.

cant quite make anything out in that pic... any idea where it's from?

[tomscat1]

wild.. i had no idea...

any clue as to what wheels are pictured on the car in that photo?

my car came with quite a bit of hartge stuff...
gauge pod, cam, grill badge, steering wheel, strut bar, and a few other things im forgetting at the moment.

also has a BBS airdam, and BBS mudflaps.

cant quite make anything out in that pic... any idea where it's from?

The pic is from the International Baur Registry:
A004210323i





How it got to the Registry, or when, since it sounds like you didn't do it, is beyond my pay grade! Do these look like pics from the previous owner, perhaps?
Here is one of those from the PO, but, even here, it looks different from the pics in the Registry:

Hopefully, Jeroen, or perhaps Stephan or Uwe from the Registry, will chime in here with that info.

Thanks again for posting that Baur plate number! This is a perfect case in point in how important those Baur plates are in conclusively determining a car's identity. A similar thing just happened recently with this TC2 Baur:
http://baurspotting.blogspot.com/2012/04/amazing-grace-baur-what-once-was-lost.html


And another one from Atlanta:
http://baurspotting.blogspot.com/2011/11/another-baur-comes-in-from-cold.html

Incidentally, I am in contact with Ras (above), and, with his help, we may be about to solve the mystery of the blue Baur sitting out at that shop in Atlanta for about the last 10 years! Ras has been in contact with the owner.
http://baurspotting.blogspot.com/2012/05/hotlanta-baurs-got-em-all.html

So stay tuned, folks! We still have a bunch of Baur plate numbers for unfound US Baurs, as well as a bunch of Baurs that have been spotted but we haven't nailed down their Baur numbers. How many of them overlap, like sefb222's Baur above?


Baurspotting is ON THE CASE!

[tomscat1]

Mike E. out in the Puget Sound area has alerted me to this Toyota Celica Sunchaser on ebay as we speak. It is one of those Baur-type conversions that we talked about a while back.... not often seen. 1 day to go.
http://baurspotting.blogspot.com/p/non-bmw-baur-or-baur-type-top.html

[lion2]

baur family I am in serious needs of parts for my 81 baur. I am
looking for the locks an lock plates for the convertible top. Please family
if anyone has these items can you reach out to me please. My #770 865 9506
call me anytime. Ras Sweeney.

[tomscat1]

Welcome to bimmerforms, Ras! Below are pics of Ras's Baur #2581 from the International Baur Registry. Some readers may recall that we have discussed Ras and his Baur in Baurspotting recently, when we were able to locate all 5 of the Baurs in the Atlanta area (we believe):
http://baurspotting.blogspot.com/201...ot-em-all.html
Ras has been searching for the locks and plates for some time without luck so far. I am wondering if anyone out there with a parts car can help out here, because it appears the parts are no longer available. Locks for the TC2 E30 apparently are available, but we havent found any for the TC1 E21.

Any help, tips, etc, are greatly appreciated!

Welcome Ras!

Btw, as you can see in Jeroen's chart below, Ras' Baur 2581 is on that list of 25 Baurs originally imported into North America by BMW!!


A002581
32ois




U.S

on Jeroen's list of US Spec cars

There, that is a better version.

[1rdmanahan1]

wild.. i had no idea...

any clue as to what wheels are pictured on the car in that photo?

my car came with quite a bit of hartge stuff...
gauge pod, cam, grill badge, steering wheel, strut bar, and a few other things im forgetting at the moment.

also has a BBS airdam, and BBS mudflaps.

cant quite make anything out in that pic... any idea where it's from?

I would appreciate seeing a picture of the BBS "mudflaps."

[tomscat1]

Someone named "autobahn' emailed this link to me tonight. I am trying to reach the owner, but, for now, this is all we know. We do know of an unidentified Baur out in the Cincinnati area, but it is a different (Hennarot) color. This could be a NEW FIND! Most of the Baurs that we have found tend to be on the coasts, or in the South. They seem to be few and far between in the Great Heartland. So we look forward to learning more about this one, and maybe that can lead us to the elusive Hennarot one!

Thank you, autobahn!

Who is Our Man In Cincinnati? Adam? JR?

Stay tuned.

Here is the craiglslist ad, posted today:

RARE 1982 BMW E-21 323i - $6200 (Northside)

An extremely rare BMW for sale. Only 115,000 miles. Runs excellent.
Its a 2.3 liter 6 cylinder with a manual 5 speed transmission.
As you can see it has the Baur roof!
Car comes with an extra set of BMW BBS style wheels with snow tires mounted and balanced.

Call 513-591-2629

http://cincinnati.craigslist.org/cto/3087230669.html

Thanks again to the alert Baurspotter, autobahn!

The thumbnails have two pics of the other Baur in the Cincinnati area, noted above. It is from the Kettering Ohio area, and was spotted at the Ault Park Concours event in Cincinnati by E21Adam in 2009.


More Baurs here:
http://baurspotting.blogspot.com/p/baurs-for-sale.html

[sefb222]

I would appreciate seeing a picture of the BBS "mudflaps."

i'll be re-installing them soon. pics to follow...

here's a quick snap from the other night... just tying up loose ends, and getting her all back together.

[BruceH]

baur family I am in serious needs of parts for my 81 baur. I am
looking for the locks an lock plates for the convertible top. Please family
if anyone has these items can you reach out to me please. My #770 865 9506
call me anytime. Ras Sweeney.

Ras - I can't help you with the plates but want to arrange a get together with Will Bryant and myself. 3 Baurs together would be fun and a great photo op.

Bruce

[tomscat1]

Someone named "autobahn' emailed this link to me tonight. I am trying to reach the owner, but, for now, this is all we know. We do know of an unidentified Baur out in the Cincinnati area, but it is a different (Hennarot) color. This could be a NEW FIND! Most of the Baurs that we have found tend to be on the coasts, or in the South. They seem to be few and far between in the Great Heartland. So we look forward to learning more about this one, and maybe that can lead us to the elusive Hennarot one!

Thank you, autobahn!

Who is Our Man In Cincinnati? Adam? JR?

Stay tuned.

Here is the craiglslist ad, posted today:

RARE 1982 BMW E-21 323i - $6200 (Northside)

An extremely rare BMW for sale. Only 115,000 miles. Runs excellent.
Its a 2.3 liter 6 cylinder with a manual 5 speed transmission.
As you can see it has the Baur roof!
Car comes with an extra set of BMW BBS style wheels with snow tires mounted and balanced.

Call 513-591-2629

http://cincinnati.craigslist.org/cto/3087230669.html

Thanks again to the alert Baurspotter, autobahn!

The thumbnails have two pics of the other Baur in the Cincinnati area, noted above. It is from the Kettering Ohio area, and was spotted at the Ault Park Concours event in Cincinnati by E21Adam in 2009.


More Baurs here:
http://baurspotting.blogspot.com/p/baurs-for-sale.html

Great news!

I was able to speak to the owner of the Polaris Cincinnati Baur today! Nice fella.

He told me he has a shop that mainly concentrates on BMW motorcycles, and he is looking to move this Baur.



1) Baur plate number is 3405. It is not in the International Baur Registry yet, so the is indeed a NEW FIND!


2) He described the manual transmission as having 1st gear DOWN AND TO THE LEFT! That sounds to me like the DOGLEG TRANSMISSION, folks! I will try to get some info to confirm that (pics, perhaps), and to make sure sure that I didn't misunderstand him.


3) He also has information---- unconfirmed at this point--- that this Baur may have a 'celebrity ownership' in its provenance. The report is that a 'famous person' once owned this car. FWIW. Baurspotting has offered to assist him, as we have done for several other Baurs, in trying to track down some info to confirm or deny this report. I dont know if the report is true or false, but it would be fun to try to find out. In a few minutes of cursory research today, I did discover that this 'famous person' did indeed at one point own a BMW M1. And.... he did live in that area.... so who knows!! Did he also own this Baur? Curious minds want to know!!!

Baurspotting is ON THE CASE!



Stay tuned, folks!

http://baurspotting.blogspot.com/2012/06/cincinnati-baur-update.html

[BruceH]

Jalopnik is covering a Baur. I believe it's the one above: http://jalopnik.com/5920827/for-6200-grin-and-baur-it

[THEPOOLEMAN]

Jalopnik is covering a Baur. I believe it's the one above: http://jalopnik.com/5920827/for-6200-grin-and-baur-it

Do you think they could slam this car a little harder in the write up ?

[BruceH]

Do you think they could slam this car a little harder in the write up ?

They've been pretty snarky lately. Price isn't terrible for a 323 Baur. I admit I didn't give it too much time in reading but everything was there. We could post there, I plan too but haven't had the time to post a measured response.


I personally feel that most enthusiasts don't realize how limited the production was. Add that to a design that is somewhat polarizing to begin with it makes the resale market narrow and shallow.

[Tom D]

Do you think they could slam this car a little harder in the write up ?

I don't know, I think the write up was consistence with my line of thought and I'm a lover of most things E21.

[tomscat1]

The link in the Jalopnik article to the "ASC roof-loppers" comes directly to THIS thread, folks.... rigmasters ASC "Baur' on page 3!!

They've been pretty snarky lately. Price isn't terrible for a 323 Baur. I admit I didn't give it too much time in reading but everything was there. We could post there, I plan too but haven't had the time to post a measured response.


I personally feel that most enthusiasts don't realize how limited the production was. Add that to a design that is somewhat polarizing to begin with it makes the resale market narrow and shallow.

3:10pm or so

I just sent in a comment.... it hasnt been posted yet.

[THEPOOLEMAN]

They've been pretty snarky lately. Price isn't terrible for a 323 Baur. I admit I didn't give it too much time in reading but everything was there. We could post there, I plan too but haven't had the time to post a measured response.
I personally feel that most enthusiasts don't realize how limited the production was. Add that to a design that is somewhat polarizing to begin with it makes the resale market narrow and shallow.

I agree about the price 100%
Baurs are like the forgotten child when it comes to the value and I just don't understand it I would think they would bring a lot more than they do in the market place.

I don't know, I think the write up was consistence with my line of thought and I'm a lover of most things E21.

I can see some of the points however, I own a E30 not an E21 ( I owned a 78 320i in 1988 and I must admit I don't remember it well, ) so the cars are not fresh in my mind.

[Pantless spency]

just seen this at the junkyard in fairfield the other day

[tomscat1]

Do you think they could slam this car a little harder in the write up ?

http://baurspotting.blogspot.com/2012/06/our-cincinnati-baur-on-jalopnik.html

Well, what do you know? The Cincinnati Baur has gotten some notice from Jalopnik. It appears that the author, graverobber, has taken some of his info from our "Baur TC1s in the US" thread in bimmerforums! If you click on the ASC reference in the article, it takes you right to page 3 of that thread.

However, he apparently didn't pay close enough attention to the thread info, because he got some of it wrong. He states that most of the jobs done by ASC went to Canada: we only know for sure of 1 job done by ASC, and that one belongs to our own rigmaster in NC. (If the author knows of OTHER Baurs done by ASC, I would love to hear about them.) He appears to have confused that tidbit with a later reference in the thread to a chart of 25 US Spec Baurs that BMW imported to North America, 22 of which went to Canada. That is Jeroen's chart, also in the bimmerforums thread. Baurspotting has actually found that a few of those "Canada" Baurs have now made their way south, and are now located in the US.

The author also shows his confusion with this comment: "So the car's kind of weird - it looks U.S. Spec, but is claimed to rock the 323i engine and five speed, what's up with that?" What is 'up with that' is that this Baur is a Euro grey market import which had to be 'federalized' to get registered in the US. Hence the US diving board bumpers, the side marker lights, and probably some emissions equipment. There is no mystery here. Anyone familiar with grey market cars would know that.

In addition, the author fails to take into any account the extreme rarity of the Baur. Baurspotting has found about 80 E21 Baurs so far in the entire US. We have unconfirmed reports of about 20 more, some of which may be duplicate sightings of Baurs we already know. This has happened a lot. There are undoubtedly some more that we havent found yet. But there is a strong likelihood that we have plucked all, or almost all, of the 'low-hanging fruit', and that most of what remains to be found is secreted away in barns, garages or other storage facilities that will be exceedingly difficult to find. Baurs are a rare bird, indeed.

I was further disappointed that the author had no sense of the historical perspective and the role that the E21 Baur played in that. Without that historical perspective, one can completely miss the reason behind the unusual design of the Baur, as this author did. There is a reason that the Baur has a "Top Cabriolet' design, just as there is a reason that it is called a "Top Cabriolet' and not a Targa. The BMW Baur Top Cabriolets were built in response to the fact that most car manufacturers were expecting that convertibles were going to be outlawed for safety reasons (primarily rollover danger) in most countries. The manufacturers therefore stopped building convertibles. The last American convertible in that era (late 70's, early 80's) was the 1976 Cadillac Eldorado. Try finding a late 70's or early 80's convertible. They are very few and far between.

Baur, a coach builder founded in 1910, had been building convertibles for BMW since the 1930's, including the 1600 convertibles, and the 2002 Targa Convertibles. Baur built 4595 E21 Baurs between 1976 and 1982. One of the most striking features of the E21 Baur design is the roll bar between the front 'targa' top and the rear folding soft top. That roll bar is present in response to, and because of, the safety concerns in rollover accidents: a product of the prevailing safety sentiments of the times. It is not there just by coincidence, or because someone thought that it would look cool! It was there for a very definite reason. Also, the reason it is called a "Top Cabriolet' is because Porsche owns the rights to use the term "Targa", so Baur had to come up with an alternative.

Much of the above perhaps means nothing to many readers of Jalopnik's 'Nice Price or the Crack Pipe' column. As one of the readers commented, you can go out and buy a nice E36 'real' convertible for half the price... and I agree. And you can also go further, and, if all you want is a convertible, buy a Chevy Cavalier or that Dodge convertible for probably half of THAT price.

That is not the person that is going to buy this car. This is a rare, unique and historically important automobile. And it is a blast to drive! Did I mention that? The E21 also the car that gave the BMW Three Series its Name! And, while it has not reached Collector Status yet, and although it does not rival its iconic brethren, the 2002 and the E30, in price yet, it's Day is Coming. With the sharp design lines of the E21, the spirited drivability of the M20 engine, the historical significance of the Top Cabriolet design, the absolute scarcity of numbers..... this is the very definition of Collector status. Sadly, graverobber from Jalopnik has no clue about any of this, and his article reflects that. It is not his fault. He doesn't read Baurspotting enough.

The BMW Baur is destined for greatness. You heard it here first, folks.

P.S. If graverobber had called the seller, he would have learned that this Baur also has the much-sought after 'dogleg transmission', and that it may also have been owned by a national celebrity (unproven so far). But you smart readers of Baurspotting could have told him that, too, because Baurspotting is all over that case!

OK, now go ahead and read the Jalopnik article again.

[AlaskaBimmer]

I want a dogleg transmission for my baur....

I see some usable parts on that junkyard baur, I need the plastic bit that covers over the rear top latch on the inside, that photo shows the left one may be intact....I also need the plastic guides that got ver the rear seatbelts so you can slide them if the top is down, those may have survived.....I could use any latch parts some of mine have started to rattle since the hole the pegs sit in are starting to wallow out.

You should grab those visros as well only the baurs had all black ones....e-21s were white on one side. Don't forget to get the baur plate number so it can be recorded as dead on the registry.

[midlifebmw]

Tom,
Come to the Vintage at Saratoga Friday eve and I'll buy you a couple at the Inn. Sounds like you have taken a couple of hard knocks with the Pantless spotting of the Baur in the wrecking yard and now the writer amateur hour.

That thread and pics made my tummy sore just seeing that damage...

[tomscat1]

Thank you, Dan! My son Brian and I will be arriving Friday night, but it may be a little late. Too late for the Meet and Greet buffet, unfortunately.... probably between 9 and 10pm. I am picking him up at the Hartford airport around dinnertime, and then we are heading up to Saratoga. Still working out the details, but I will let you know as the time gets closer. Really looking forward to this!

[midlifebmw]

Would be happy to meet you at the Inn at Saratoga if needed. Let me know.