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Thread: Baur TC1 in the US

  1. #1
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    Baur TC1 in the US

    Because Tom is very curious, a seperate topic.

    I am curious to find how many Baurs there are in the US. I have one here in CT, I know of at least one in NY, you are in New Jersey, a couple in Philly, a Dietel Baur in VA, three or so in Atlanta area, there was one in Beaufort, SC for sale recently .... several that I am aware of on the West Coast... and of course a very famous one in Alaska (Hi Jeff) .... I am not aware of another Baur in CT (there was one in Mystic, but it was sold to the Philly area this year) ... or even another in New England, ---- and there may be a few--- but I just don't have the info.

    It has been estimated that there are 25 in US... although there are probably more. Jeroen ([COLOR=blue ! important][COLOR=blue ! important]Netherlands[/COLOR][/COLOR]) estimates that there are 10% of the original production of 4595 Baurs left in existence. Very hard to figure how many of those were brought to the US, and how many remain on the road, after at least 27 years, minimum.
    Also very hard to do a trace, since, as gray market cars, many 323i are registered simply as 320i's, and many Baurs may or may not be registered as convertibles.

    So I am interested in any info you may have. Thanks.

    I don't mean to hijack this thread, so if any info is forthcoming I will move it to a new thread.
    And here the cars that are known to me as being in the US. Unfortunately with small pictures.
    70296 318

    70332 318

    70471 323i ("Dietel")

    70534 320/6

    70558 316

    70601 323i

    70689 320/6

    70868 323i

    70917 320/6

    71273 323i

    71475 318A

    71572 316

    72175 323i

    72419 318i

    72565 323i (ex Michael Baur, wrecked)

    72569 320/6

    72679 323i

    72857 323i

    72910 323i

    73023 323i

    73037 323i

    73056 323i

    73091 323i

    73475 323i

    73489 323i

    73583 323i

    73860 323i

    73940 323i

    74154 323i

    74210 323i
    Last edited by Baur; 12-06-2010 at 09:23 AM.

  2. #2
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    74403 323i

    74587 320i (US-model!)


    If I counted correct, that makes 31 (!).

    Gr Jeroen

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baur View Post

    74403 323i

    74587 320i (US-model!)


    If I counted correct, that makes 31 (!).

    Gr Jeroen
    Wow, Jeroen! You are indeed The Man!Thank you very much for that, and Best wishes of the Holiday Season to You and Yours!

    With your updates, I believe the total posted above is now 33.
    Last edited by tomscat1; 01-21-2011 at 11:57 PM.
    Tom
    SE Connecticut
    1982 323i Baur, 1977 320i (carbed),
    1978 320i (parts)
    1991 325ix 5 speed, 1989 325ix (winter),
    1989 325ic (summer)
    1973 2002 Malaga (with frosting)
    1975 Mercedes W115 300D (The Departed)
    the late 1979 323i Euro (project, Now Departed)

    Visit my blog: Baurspotting
    http://baurspotting.blogspot.com/

    BWR PWR!

  4. #4
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    Great info, Jeroen!

    I once saw a Golf yellow E21 Baur here in Puerto Rico, but that was about 15 years ago and I have not been able to find out if it still exists.
    HarryPR
    '81 320/6 Baur (#2569)
    BMW CCA # 19290



  5. #5
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    Is Jeff (alaskabimmer) in that lineup? I am 4154,and 471 (Dietel) is owned by the guy I bought mine from in VA.

    Is the Beaufort SC car that was for sale not too long ago in there?
    I think 18wheelerbob's car is 1475.
    What about yours, HarryPR?
    917 was owned by a friend in Mystic CT, until he sold it to someone in PA this year.
    Last edited by tomscat1; 12-02-2010 at 02:48 PM.
    Tom
    SE Connecticut
    1982 323i Baur, 1977 320i (carbed),
    1978 320i (parts)
    1991 325ix 5 speed, 1989 325ix (winter),
    1989 325ic (summer)
    1973 2002 Malaga (with frosting)
    1975 Mercedes W115 300D (The Departed)
    the late 1979 323i Euro (project, Now Departed)

    Visit my blog: Baurspotting
    http://baurspotting.blogspot.com/

    BWR PWR!

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomscat1 View Post
    Is Jeff (alaskabimmer) in that lineup? I am 4154,and 471 (Dietel) is owner by the guy I bought mine from in VA.

    Is the Beaufort SC car that was for sale not too long ago in there?
    I think 18wheelerbob's car is 1475.
    What about yours, HarryPR?
    917 was owned by a friend in Mystic CT, until he sold it to someone in PA this year.
    Mine is 72569. It is currently in Deltona, FL stored at a friend's house. I drove it there with plans to ship it to PR, but decided not to do so for the time being. I'll probably drive it up to Atlanta again in May to attend the Vineyards event, if not sooner.
    HarryPR
    '81 320/6 Baur (#2569)
    BMW CCA # 19290



  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by conkitchen View Post
    Tom & Jeroen,
    Thanks to the forum member Steve C. I have the tags from this car. Sadly it was beyond repair and went to the crusher. I have taken on the endeavor to resurrect the car with a donor body. Seen in the image. Some of you will recall this “donor” gem on ebay a while back. It came with no BAUR identification due in part to the front end having been completely replaced. The only remaining evidence of ever having been a real TC1 (non 323) was some of the euro parts, roof assembly, plus the two rivet holes for the euro spec ID tag (not baur tag) on the passenger side were evident. Otherwise, the VIN comes up as a 1979 US model.

    So for those of you tracking the whereabouts, here is an update. ;-)

    Here is how it is shaping up. Rubinrot is a good color to be risen out of the ashes
    So, if I understand you correctly, you have tags from #2565 (of which nothing else remains??), and you have the body of another Baur (unknown Baur number?).... and you are resurrecting a Baur. What Baur # will it be when resurrected?
    Kudos to you, btw, for taking this on.
    Tom
    SE Connecticut
    1982 323i Baur, 1977 320i (carbed),
    1978 320i (parts)
    1991 325ix 5 speed, 1989 325ix (winter),
    1989 325ic (summer)
    1973 2002 Malaga (with frosting)
    1975 Mercedes W115 300D (The Departed)
    the late 1979 323i Euro (project, Now Departed)

    Visit my blog: Baurspotting
    http://baurspotting.blogspot.com/

    BWR PWR!

  8. #8
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    I recently saw one 5 houses down from my sister-in-law's house in Tempe, silver one. I've been itching to get over there & talk to the guy about it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tom D View Post
    throttle lift oversteer is a way of life and should be celebrated. there are few things as much fun as steering a car through a corner with the throttle.
    He who dies with the most unfinished projects wins



  9. #9
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    This is an awesome thread.

  10. #10
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    There used to be a Baur in Orlando but that was several years ago. I remember speaking with the owner because the car was unusual looking, my first Baur. At the time I had my 81 320i.
    Last edited by davidgoerndt; 12-02-2010 at 10:01 PM.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by conkitchen View Post
    Yep!

    The only bad thing is that the fender VIN stamp and title from 2565 I do not have as it was surrenderd to the crusher. However I do have a clean title for the 79 (unkown BAUR #) e21.

    In the end the Baur # will be 2565 but the VIN will be for a 79 e21.

    That is just how it's has to be, but the car will live on in spirit.
    If you have the VIN for the '79 Baur, I bet Jeroen could find the Baur number.

    Right, Jeroen?

    http://www.bmw-z1.com/VIN/VINdecode-e.cgi
    This is a BMW VIN decoder... insert last 7 digits of the VIN, see what you get for both #2565 and the '79.


    P.S. Is #3023 Alaskabimmer?
    #3583 is in here also, in the eastern PA area.

    #4587, nearly the last of the Baurs, looks like the one that sold recently around Norfolk VA, (actually Mathews VA) if I am not mistaken. Here's his ad from May 29 2010 :
    "1983 320i Baur factory conversion (rare) unique targa top convertible, (built in rollbar) 4cyl. 5 speed, lsd ac 160, k miles, body restoration 4 yrs ago (no rust), zender body kit , koni adjustable shocks & springs, nice interior, reccaro bucket seats, cd, new dash cap, lots of recent new parts. Great example of an old school Bimmer, a really neat looking useable classic that runs well. Lots of money and time spend on this little car. Not for everyone, but probably won't last. Wife says its got to go."

    There was another one for sale in California (it was green, and the seller stated it wasn't the original color) a few months back.... I don't recognize that in any of the pics, though. UPDATE: I did some checking through my old emails, and found this Palm Springs California Baur was identified by Jeroen as #2419, which is included in his list above.
    And this ad (now deleted, dammit) from Craigs List two weeks ago:
    Very rare 1978 BAUR bmw 320/6! - $300 (Central Tucson)‏

    Here is the listing for the Baur that was for sale in Beaufort SC this year:
    1978 BMW 323i Baur Convertible

    Date: 2010-03-30, 10:38AM

    Rare European-only gray market e21 BMW 3 series Baur conversion. White w/blue interior, 5 speed (non sport), Stahl header, Recaro seats, runs strong, daily driver or ready to restore. Call for details. No emails please. Located near downtown Beaufort. 843-812-2640


    Where did they go?
    Last edited by tomscat1; 12-02-2010 at 10:49 PM.
    Tom
    SE Connecticut
    1982 323i Baur, 1977 320i (carbed),
    1978 320i (parts)
    1991 325ix 5 speed, 1989 325ix (winter),
    1989 325ic (summer)
    1973 2002 Malaga (with frosting)
    1975 Mercedes W115 300D (The Departed)
    the late 1979 323i Euro (project, Now Departed)

    Visit my blog: Baurspotting
    http://baurspotting.blogspot.com/

    BWR PWR!

  12. #12
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    Very interesting project, but I am a little confused. Are there THREE cars involved here, or just two:
    1) #2565 (wrecked, tags remain);
    2) the white car you refer to as the "donor' car, and
    3) the Rubinrot car.

    If the white car is a 'donor' car, what parts is it donating, and what car are the parts being donated to? ?? Or is the white car now the Rubinrot car? Which is a '79 E21. I do remember seeing the pic of that white one somewhere, perhaps it was ebay. Wasn't it located somewhere near the Rocky Mtns? Vague memory of it.

    Sorry to seem so confused. Please bear with me. I am actually quite interested to learn about it.
    Last edited by tomscat1; 12-02-2010 at 11:56 PM.
    Tom
    SE Connecticut
    1982 323i Baur, 1977 320i (carbed),
    1978 320i (parts)
    1991 325ix 5 speed, 1989 325ix (winter),
    1989 325ic (summer)
    1973 2002 Malaga (with frosting)
    1975 Mercedes W115 300D (The Departed)
    the late 1979 323i Euro (project, Now Departed)

    Visit my blog: Baurspotting
    http://baurspotting.blogspot.com/

    BWR PWR!

  13. #13
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    Unhappy

    I saw a white one in sacramento a few days ago it had been rear ended.
    Last edited by bmac320i; 12-03-2010 at 01:55 AM.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by conkitchen View Post
    Wow, really? Mine is in Sac but it aint white anymore.

    Was it at a bone yard, in a driveway, on the road?

    Any chance you might know the owner or have the location?

    Funny how it seems all the Baur's are falling from the sky lately.
    It was going south on I 5 and I was getting off at 99-50 east. Are you from sac? Im gust south, That was the first Baur I saw up clouse I would love to see one in better shape.

  15. #15
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    Uwe (a German guy who is totally into the TC1's) send me an email yesterday. The car below should/could be the 70601:



    @Tom: not every VIN can be linked to a Baur-number. As you can see with conkitchens car, sometimes cars have been rebuild with an other VIN. But there was also a company in the Netherlands that bought the TC1 frames from Baur. And so there are many "Baur TC1" in the Netherlands that don't have a Baur-number.

    Gr Jeroen

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baur View Post
    Uwe (a German guy who is totally into the TC1's) send me an email yesterday. The car below should/could be the 70601:



    @Tom: not every VIN can be linked to a Baur-number. As you can see with conkitchens car, sometimes cars have been rebuild with an other VIN. But there was also a company in the Netherlands that bought the TC1 frames from Baur. And so there are many "Baur TC1" in the Netherlands that don't have a Baur-number.

    Gr Jeroen
    I remember those pics. I believe that is the car that was for sale in Palm Springs California that I mentioned above:
    "There was another one for sale in California (it was green, and the seller stated it wasn't the original color) a few months back.... I don't recognize that in any of the pics, though." I was mistaken in my earlier post, where I stated that Jeroen identified that car as #2419. #2419 was a 318i Baur that was for sale around the same time in Carmel by the Sea CA. The seller sent me a ton of info on that car.

    As to the green car pictured above.... I corresponded with the seller a few times, and this was his ad,
    "1979 BMW 323I BAUR CONVERTIBLE. CURRENT CALIFORNIA REGISTRATION, TITLE IN HAND, 4SPD TRANS, GREEN EXTERIOR AND BLACK INTERIOR, $6,000.00 OBO NO TRADES! EMAIL OR CALL JEFF AT ..."

    • Location: PALM SPRINGS
    He said the original color was Chamonix. I am at work now, so I can't research this any further at the moment. Dammit. I may have more info on it somewhere.
    Work is soooo inconvenient to my Baur research time! It's a good thing they pay me, or I'll be DAMNED if I'd do it!



    UPDATE: On 7/16/10 the seller of the green Baur pictured above sent me the following:

    " Hello Tom,
    Yes, I have a baur registry plate on the vehicle. I will get you that number.

    The car is not the original color. I will get you the name of the original color. It was a off white originally.

    Jeff
    The BAUR # is A000601-01
    The original color was Chamonix."

    So Jeroen and Uwe are exactly correct. Kudos

    I wonder if anyone can identify any of the other cars above.... as to location, status, etc. Are there any others in New England (CT, MA, RI, ME, NH, VT)? I know eighteenwheelerbob is out on Long Island, NY. As far as I know he is the closest Baur to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Baur View Post
    @Tom: not every VIN can be linked to a Baur-number. As you can see with conkitchens car, sometimes cars have been rebuild with an other VIN. But there was also a company in the Netherlands that bought the TC1 frames from Baur. And so there are many "Baur TC1" in the Netherlands that don't have a Baur-number.

    Gr Jeroen
    So does this mean that the number of official factory Baurs is 4595, but there may be an unknown number of additional Netherlands Baurs (or elsewhere) not included in that 4595 figure? Were Baur frames sold to any other companies to make their own Baur-type versions?

    Learn something new every day.
    Last edited by tomscat1; 12-04-2010 at 08:29 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
    Tom
    SE Connecticut
    1982 323i Baur, 1977 320i (carbed),
    1978 320i (parts)
    1991 325ix 5 speed, 1989 325ix (winter),
    1989 325ic (summer)
    1973 2002 Malaga (with frosting)
    1975 Mercedes W115 300D (The Departed)
    the late 1979 323i Euro (project, Now Departed)

    Visit my blog: Baurspotting
    http://baurspotting.blogspot.com/

    BWR PWR!

  17. #17
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    mine is 3023 and is listed in the list of 31.

    The Frozen Baur (AKA The Frozen Ground) now on Netflix (John Cussack is driving the Omega behind the Baur)

  18. #18
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    Very rare 1978 BAUR bmw 320/6! - $300 (Central Tucson)‏

    My buddy mark an E21 junkyeeeeeeeee pick that one up. It's in need a few parts more update later.

    James
    My M30 carb intake


  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimjim69 View Post
    Very rare 1978 BAUR bmw 320/6! - $300 (Central Tucson)‏

    My buddy mark an E21 junkyeeeeeeeee pick that one up. It's in need a few parts more update later.

    James
    Is that one of the Baurs on Jeroen's list above? Can you find out the Baur number? Does your friend common this forum? Great job for him to rescue this one!! Kudos!

    Got any pics?
    Last edited by tomscat1; 12-04-2010 at 12:07 PM.
    Tom
    SE Connecticut
    1982 323i Baur, 1977 320i (carbed),
    1978 320i (parts)
    1991 325ix 5 speed, 1989 325ix (winter),
    1989 325ic (summer)
    1973 2002 Malaga (with frosting)
    1975 Mercedes W115 300D (The Departed)
    the late 1979 323i Euro (project, Now Departed)

    Visit my blog: Baurspotting
    http://baurspotting.blogspot.com/

    BWR PWR!

  20. #20
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    So does this mean that the number of official factory Baurs is 4595, but there may be an unknown number of additional Netherlands Baurs (or elsewhere) not included in that 4595 figure? Were Baur frames sold to any other companies to make their own Baur-type versions?
    Indeed. The numbers for the TC1 are not known, so here some from the TC2.
    14665: totall frames build
    10865: cars converted by Baur in Stuttgart.
    The rest of the frames (mostly) went to South-Africa. These cars can easily be identified, even if you can't see the stickers "Made in South-Africa" under the bonnet. Then these cars have their frame in the same color as the rest of the body. Cars build in Stuttgart always had a black frame.

    A South-African car.

    Gr Jeroen

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by conkitchen View Post
    Bmac,

    I don't live in Sac, but have family there.

    I'll be around at 1708 34th St. with the cross being Follsom on Saturday 12-4 from 11am to 5pm.

    Drive by if you are out and about.
    Sorry I couldnt make it out, Had alot of things to do.
    At first I wasent sure I liked the Baur, but the more I see nice ones the more I like them.Mybe we could hook up some outher time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Baur View Post
    Indeed. The numbers for the TC1 are not known, so here some from the TC2.
    14665: totall frames build
    10865: cars converted by Baur in Stuttgart.
    The rest of the frames (mostly) went to South-Africa. These cars can easily be identified, even if you can't see the stickers "Made in South-Africa" under the bonnet. Then these cars have their frame in the same color as the rest of the body. Cars build in Stuttgart always had a black frame.

    A South-African car.

    Gr Jeroen
    Is this a e30?

  22. #22
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    Yes, that is an E30. The E21 Baurs were known as TC1 (Top Cabriolet), and the E30 Baurs were known as TC2.
    http://translate.google.com/translat...baur-tc1.de%2F

    Jeroen continues to be an amazing font of information on the Baurs ---- Kudos Jeroen! ---- for which I am certainly in his debt.
    I had no idea there were so many Baurs out of South Africa.
    Tom
    SE Connecticut
    1982 323i Baur, 1977 320i (carbed),
    1978 320i (parts)
    1991 325ix 5 speed, 1989 325ix (winter),
    1989 325ic (summer)
    1973 2002 Malaga (with frosting)
    1975 Mercedes W115 300D (The Departed)
    the late 1979 323i Euro (project, Now Departed)

    Visit my blog: Baurspotting
    http://baurspotting.blogspot.com/

    BWR PWR!

  23. #23
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    And the E36 is known as the...nope, not TC3 The TC3 was a Z1-like coupé build on E30-base.

    The first pictures, with BMW-signatures. But after BMW declined this car (we write 1986, the Z1 was already in development), Baur had to take the BMW-logos of. Here some pictures of how it looks now. These pictures were taken on the Stuttgart Messe this year. Because of 100 years Baur, they brought some rare Baur together (the TC3, but also the 4 door TC2 prototype, a TC2 Pick-up and the 02 "Airflow" Landaulette).





    Thanks for your compliments Tom

    Gr Jeroen

    PS. Updated the first post with A70601 and A73489.
    Last edited by Baur; 12-06-2010 at 09:25 AM.

  24. #24
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    Thanks for all the great info, Jeroen!

    Do you have any pics of the other rare Baur prototypes?

    Best,
    HarryPR
    '81 320/6 Baur (#2569)
    BMW CCA # 19290



  25. #25
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    Off course. These are the pcitures I made at Retroclassics in Stuttgart.

    AT-Design Pickup. This car was based upon a crashed car. It's not known if this was a Baur or a 2-door, because it has a new VIN. At least, it has a bit Baur in the form of the targa-roof.















    En foto's van een 2e exemplaar.


    Baur-Kohl Coupé. This was an idea from cardealer Kohl in Aachen, Germany. That is the largest BMW-dealer and also the company behind AC Schnitzer. They had the idea to build an E30 Coupé. Easiest way was to start with a Baur. 4 of them build (1x 320i, 3x 325i), 3 of them survived, one went up in flames. Of the 3 surviving, one is in daily use, one is in restoration and thel last, seen on the pictures, is waiting to be restored.









    Baur TC2/4. When BMW told Baur that they couldn't use the 2-door (coupé) E36, Baur wanted to find out if a 4-door Cabrio would sell. So in 1990, they made this 4-door prototype. Look at the details, such as the changed rear-doors!





    The 02 Landaulette. Idea was to make the roof out of plexiglass, but that was a bit to advanced mid 60ies. (Later Baur made the plexiglass Bitter CD). So it became a landaulette with sliding roof.




    Gr Jeroen

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