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Thread: 1972-1981 (E12) knowledge base

  1. #101
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    520 e12 '74
    Thanks for the answer, and yes, the idea was to get a real smooth, nice going daily drive - not keeping the fun aside

    The brakes arent the problem, i believe we can just replace the drum system with discs, the e12 had models with it,but my concerne is around safety and suspensions upgrades.

    My idea is to have this car all "modernized" in the mechanical sense, but keeping the classic interior and exterior (i will just make classic upgrades, very close to the looks of an M535 e12).

    Soon enough i will post some pics of the process )

    Do you believe its not necessary this upgrade/adaptation?

    Thank you very much!

  2. #102
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    I suppose it depends how you're going to drive. If you just want modern grunt, I wouldn't bother. But if you're planning to say "because racecar!" then it makes sense. The E12/8 I had wasn't a problem, but of course I didn't drive it hard.
    1999 BMW Z3 2.8 Roadster - show project
    1970 VW 411L Auto - show/restoration project (sold)
    1982 BMW 518i E12/8 - stolen
    1987 Mazda 323 1.5 SL - daily driver, backup show car

  3. #103
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    May 2017
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    520 e12 '74
    I dont plan to go to track with it, but its not impossible.

    My main objective is to grab a nice saturday and get on a good highway and drive it, not raaace, but hear some "exhaust" hahaha

    In the city, it will be very daily drive, we cant actually run a lot due to speedbumps, radars, and all that stuff.

    So i think it wouldnt be really necessary.

    In this line, there would be upgrades to make on the suspension? Like grabing something from an aftermarket company? Or an later model? Just the suspension, not the whole back.

  4. #104
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    I'm honestly not 100% sure. Stiffer suspension should give more control, but you'll lose that soft 5er ride.

    I do know the true E12 was known for snap oversteer, and as I understand that was due to the stock suspension (and it was aparrantly adressed in the E28, so maybe that will help?).
    1999 BMW Z3 2.8 Roadster - show project
    1970 VW 411L Auto - show/restoration project (sold)
    1982 BMW 518i E12/8 - stolen
    1987 Mazda 323 1.5 SL - daily driver, backup show car

  5. #105
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    Jan 2004
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    1975 530i 4 speed
    My e12 has the 3.5 liter 218 hp engine, and the standard suspension is fine. I would keep the normal e12 suspension. It is very good and many have raced with the standard front MacPherson struts and rear semi trailing arms, including the 3.0 CSL Batmobile. Heck, the Chevy Camaro still had a live axle, no independent rear suspension, as late as 2002!!

    Certainly you could put rear discs from an e12 525/528i. I wouldn't bother upgrading to e28 rear suspension, although I know others have.

  6. #106
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    520 e12 '74
    Thata good intel, thank you both

    As soon as i get some pictures, i will share the progress

  7. #107
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    Jan 2017
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    1980 528i
    Hello people! I've got a good old 1980 528i. Ive been refurbishing all of the wear components on the suspension and installed h&r 40mm drop sport springs and bilstein b8 dampers as well as ST upsized sway bars. Now what I've got to get done is the engine.. I've pulled the stock 500k mile m30b28 L-Jet lump. Would like to put an m30b35 engine in. Is there a way to modify my current bell housing to accept the motronic 1.3 crank position sensor? (I have the stock 5 speed from 1980) The donor b35 is from an 89 735i auto running and driving. Or should I try and find an L-Jet M90?
    i also have a motoronic b35 in pieces available. Would there be a possibility of creating my own hybrid engine retaining my L-Jet system? I'm a young guy who's interested in these old dinosaur e12 in much need of some elder wisdom. Thanks fellas

  8. #108
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    1975 530i 4 speed
    The conversion is described in detail at the following link: 3.5 conversion for e12 5 series

    Sadly, the website is derelict and the pictures are missing, but the info is still there. If you want to use Motronic you need the later style bell housing. You can use L-jet with the 3.5. I have a M90 in my car, which makes things easier, but you can use L jet on a later 3.5, or even carbs.

    M90 is nice, because that gives a Euro 218 hp with a 9.3:1 compression ratio. Later 3.5 liter 218 hp motors used Motronic and 10:1 CR. Both 218 hp motors were never officially sold in America, they came in fitted to gray market imports.
    Last edited by e12Euro; 03-18-2018 at 12:27 PM. Reason: Added info

  9. #109
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    1980 528i
    Thank you E12euro. If I were to use L jet with the newer 3.5 does that mean use my intake manifold and switch my camshaft and distributor/ timing cover over? And will the performance suffer compared to the motronic given the L jet system is tuned adequately? Thank you for that link btw I'll read that now, sorry if the answer to my question is in there.

  10. #110
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    1975 530i 4 speed
    Yes, I would switch them over. Normally people swapping to a 3.5 get a complete donor car and do the whole Motronic thing, but you don't need to. L-jet and your old hardware won't hurt performance. The key determinant of performance is which compression ratio 3.5 you have, speaking in SAE hp:

    Euro 3.5 (M90) 9.3 CR 215 hp
    Euro 3.4 10 CR 215 hp
    US 3.4 (e28 & e23) 8 CR 182 hp
    US 3.4 (late e24, e32, e34) 9 CR 208 hp

    As a side note that First Fives website also has a good FAQ on budget a/c repair budget e12 a/c repair if you have no leaks, and the condenser & evap core are free of exterior dirt, then the stock system works fine on R12 gas, or R134a if you get a $120 Vintage Air parallel flow condenser which Summit Racing stock online.

  11. #111
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    1980 528i
    Quote Originally Posted by e12Euro View Post
    Yes, I would switch them over. Normally people swapping to a 3.5 get a complete donor car and do the whole Motronic thing, but you don't need to. L-jet and your old hardware won't hurt performance. The key determinant of performance is which compression ratio 3.5 you have, speaking in SAE hp:

    Euro 3.5 (M90) 9.3 CR 215 hp
    Euro 3.4 10 CR 215 hp
    US 3.4 (e28 & e23) 8 CR 182 hp
    US 3.4 (late e24, e32, e34) 9 CR 208 hp

    As a side note that First Fives website also has a good FAQ on budget a/c repair budget e12 a/c repair if you have no leaks, and the condenser & evap core are free of exterior dirt, then the stock system works fine on R12 gas, or R134a if you get a $120 Vintage Air parallel flow condenser which Summit Racing stock online.
    Thank you so much EuroE12. Well the car I'm getting for the swap is an 89 735i auto from my friend Bobby at Strictly German. He says just put the entire unit in there, wiring harness, ecu, all the accessories etc. now I understand there might be certain things here and there that I'll retain from my car, but is there any reason not to swap everything from the 735i? I understand in most cases it would be more expensive but I'm buying a running and driving car to do the swap so everything is included. That being said is the l jetronic route still easier for some reason? Or does that only apply if I am purchasing a b35 that doesn't come with a harness, ecu, accessories? I'm told that this car does not have the rear crank position sensor. And that's great info on the condenser.. My AC was actually working fine until the blower motor started making bad noises at me. Well.. The AC worked fine if you had the luxury or starting your trip in the shade or garage. Which I don't have a garage and shady parking spots in Alabama summer are highly sought after

  12. #112
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    Sydney, NSW, Australia
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    1974 BMW 525
    Hi everyone, I have a RHD 74 525. The guy that salvaged it before me did a fair bit of work and i am also doing a number of things hoping to get to the point where i can do cosmetic rather than only mechanicals. I recently finished (i hope that is) reconditioning the electrical sunroof. In the process a number of issues always come up, unfortunately i dont have the time to invest and do things myself and i send it off to a mechanic. I have had mixed feelings about the knowledge and the result but now hes left me with a more serious issue that i want/have to resolve myself. following the final work on the sunroof and a recon on the brake cylinders and boosters, he announced the alternator light is on-he cant find the fault. Long story short, i have the car now and i have noticed that: with battery connected, switch off, the alternator light is on, the handbreak light is on (but dim) and also my fuel gauge works. once you switch the key to position before starting the engine, alternator light turns off. My mechanic also claimed that the alternator was not charging and to that purpose he replaced the regulator. the battery is now charging with engine on but has a drain of ~1mah/sec. Any help-ideas will be greatly appreciated, thanks!

  13. #113
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    Jun 2018
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    roswell ga
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    1981 bmw 528i
    HELP removing sliding/tilting sun roof lid on 81 528i. I need to replace a broken gate as my lid does not lift up in the back when I close it. I cant seem to figure out how to remove the lid to be able to get to the plastic gate that is broken. Any ideas are most welcome. I have the shop manual but it is hardly helpful. this stuff is delicate in here and it is easy to mess it all up. I just want to avoid that and go about it correctly. Please chime in if you can help me. thanks a lot!!

  14. #114
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    '99 Z3 2.8 Roadster
    Quote Originally Posted by thePan View Post
    Hi everyone, I have a RHD 74 525. The guy that salvaged it before me did a fair bit of work and i am also doing a number of things hoping to get to the point where i can do cosmetic rather than only mechanicals. I recently finished (i hope that is) reconditioning the electrical sunroof. In the process a number of issues always come up, unfortunately i dont have the time to invest and do things myself and i send it off to a mechanic. I have had mixed feelings about the knowledge and the result but now hes left me with a more serious issue that i want/have to resolve myself. following the final work on the sunroof and a recon on the brake cylinders and boosters, he announced the alternator light is on-he cant find the fault. Long story short, i have the car now and i have noticed that: with battery connected, switch off, the alternator light is on, the handbreak light is on (but dim) and also my fuel gauge works. once you switch the key to position before starting the engine, alternator light turns off. My mechanic also claimed that the alternator was not charging and to that purpose he replaced the regulator. the battery is now charging with engine on but has a drain of ~1mah/sec. Any help-ideas will be greatly appreciated, thanks!
    Sorry for only replying now, I was a bit busy lately. Anyway, that's definitely an electrical issue, I'd say take it to an experienced auto-electrician. Mechanics know the mechanical stuff, usually not electrical. If you're feeling up to it you could try to find the issue yourself, but it's not something I'd do.

    jhpcat: Sorry, but my E12/8 didn't have such luxuries. Anyway, good luck. Maybe someone else (maybe thePan?) can chime in?


    Also, welcome to both of you.
    1999 BMW Z3 2.8 Roadster - show project
    1970 VW 411L Auto - show/restoration project (sold)
    1982 BMW 518i E12/8 - stolen
    1987 Mazda 323 1.5 SL - daily driver, backup show car

  15. #115
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    Jul 2012
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    Marietta, GA
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    2001 Atlanta Blue Z3
    Hi all,

    I think this could be applicable to other forums also, but because it's in an E12, I'll ask it here. How good/reliable of an engine is the M30B30? What is needed to make it a better engine?

    I talked to a senior tech for BMW when these were new cars, and he strongly suggested I avoid a 530i because of the motor. What I do know about the motor in the specific car I'm looking at is that 1) the head was replaced 30 or so years ago and is not cracked, 2) it still has its thermal reactors, 3) the air pump has been removed.

    As the person I spoke to said, I should run from this car. Should I?

  16. #116
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    '99 Z3 2.8 Roadster
    Chaparel: This thread isn't very busy anymore, maybe you should ask in one of the other sections? I personally have no knowledge about the M30.

    Thomco: Good luck with that. These cars are rare in ZA, where cars are known to last "forever". I can only imagine how bad it must be in the US. Unfortunately that makes it hard to get a value (like with the VW in my sig, no car dealer wanted to even guess how much it could be worth when I wanted to get insurance). Maybe you can look for ads online, and get a rough idea from that?




    Also, what an odd coincidence. All three of us have Z3s...
    1999 BMW Z3 2.8 Roadster - show project
    1970 VW 411L Auto - show/restoration project (sold)
    1982 BMW 518i E12/8 - stolen
    1987 Mazda 323 1.5 SL - daily driver, backup show car

  17. #117
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    Jun 2018
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    roswell ga
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    1981 bmw 528i
    '81 528i: Recently, I noticed that my fuel gauge was off by about 1/4 of a tan. It now shows a level higher by 1/4 than it actually is. I replaced the sender unit, as I thought it was surely the culprit. No so. Currently the tank is very low. But the needle shows 1/4 tank when the engine is running. Odd think is that when I turn the key off the needle jumps down to the actual low level, nearly empty. The needle pauses there for about a second before dropping all the way off to the left of the AMBER reserve lens.This all started, as I recall, the last time I filled it up about a couple of months ago (not my daily driver). I just cant seem to figure out why. Any suggestions you have, I'm all ears...

  18. #118
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    '99 Z3 2.8 Roadster
    I'm not 100% sure how these systems work, but logic tells me the sender gives an electric current/voltage to the gauge, which then indicates the level. So if the gauge is not showing right, then it must be that the signal (probably voltage?) is not right? Maybe a wiring issue?

    EDIT: I just saw that it momentarily drops to the actual level when you kill the engine. Definitely electrical issue. Is it with the engine running, or ignition on but engine standing still?

    If you can't find out the details of how the system works, have someone move the sender while you check the voltage at the gauge. I assume a higher voltage would give a higher reading, which means the gauge is getting extra juice from somewhere. And since it happens with the engine on, that's a definite clue as to where you should look (probably a short between the engine electrics and fuel gauge).
    Last edited by JKuhn; 11-14-2018 at 03:24 AM.
    1999 BMW Z3 2.8 Roadster - show project
    1970 VW 411L Auto - show/restoration project (sold)
    1982 BMW 518i E12/8 - stolen
    1987 Mazda 323 1.5 SL - daily driver, backup show car

  19. #119
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    Dec 2018
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    San Francisco
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    ‘81 E21 320i
    I'm in an E21 and have some gauge weirdness like that. Dummy light always comes on with 2 gallons remaining (so far). In that part of the forum people suggested it could simply be corroded connectors anywhere in the electrical chain from tank to dash. That's what I would start with.

    However I am seriously considering an E12. But I'd like to know more about what I'd be getting into. I want an automatic, I'd prefer CA smog exempt but that seems unrealistic unless I pay huge money for a 2002. But I love the e12.

    Is it a terrible idea to buy one for an only car? Do these have enough problems (120,000 miles plus) that it will be unreliable, with difficult to find replacement parts?

    Are there mechanics who will work on them in the SF Bay Area?
    My E21 is stuck in Quartzite AZ and nobody will work on it. Huge problem leaving me taking planes, busses and rental cars to work...

    I am the kind of guy to read every post in this thread, and to start reading all posts in firstfives, too. But my questions are not necessarily the ones that have been asked.

    What am I looking at in getting a stock, tired e12 roadworthy and reliable? I make drives in a 79 VW diesel from SF to Seattle, as an example of reliability.

  20. #120
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    1975 530i 4 speed
    Quote Originally Posted by mcgee View Post
    I'm in an E21 and have some gauge weirdness like that. Dummy light always comes on with 2 gallons remaining (so far). In that part of the forum people suggested it could simply be corroded connectors anywhere in the electrical chain from tank to dash. That's what I would start with.

    However I am seriously considering an E12. But I'd like to know more about what I'd be getting into. I want an automatic, I'd prefer CA smog exempt but that seems unrealistic unless I pay huge money for a 2002. But I love the e12.

    Is it a terrible idea to buy one for an only car? Do these have enough problems (120,000 miles plus) that it will be unreliable, with difficult to find replacement parts?

    Are there mechanics who will work on them in the SF Bay Area?
    My E21 is stuck in Quartzite AZ and nobody will work on it. Huge problem leaving me taking planes, busses and rental cars to work...

    I am the kind of guy to read every post in this thread, and to start reading all posts in firstfives, too. But my questions are not necessarily the ones that have been asked.

    What am I looking at in getting a stock, tired e12 roadworthy and reliable? I make drives in a 79 VW diesel from SF to Seattle, as an example of reliability.
    A 1975 530i would be CA smog exempt. How reliable these cars are depends on condition. Get one in the best condition you can. E12s are from 1975-81, so by now you are judging a car's condition, not its design. Yes, firstfives.org is a good place to be.

  21. #121
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    ‘81 E21 320i
    I think that e12 weren't imported in 75, though. If there are any I think it might be years before one is available for sale in whatever condition.

    Understood that condition matters, of course. But what are the model-specific things to look out for? Is it electrical, or oil-burning, burning automatics, steering linkage wear, etc.? Does all the stuff in the dash disintegrate and stop working, leaving tons of parts-searching and hours of work? Is the fuel system the biggest problem area?

  22. #122
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    My South African 1982 E12/8 had rock-solid reliability (converted to carb though, those old K-jet systems can be an absolute nightmare when they're not working right). Until it got stolen late 2016.

    These are also very nice cars to drive.
    1999 BMW Z3 2.8 Roadster - show project
    1970 VW 411L Auto - show/restoration project (sold)
    1982 BMW 518i E12/8 - stolen
    1987 Mazda 323 1.5 SL - daily driver, backup show car

  23. #123
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    What a bummer your car got stolen!

    I guess one thing I'll need to do is find a good local mechanic who knows the E12 well.

  24. #124
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    I still miss it. But as they say, things happen for a reason. If it didn't get stolen, I wouldn't have my Z3 now. Still, if I had the money and an oppertunity to buy a nice E12 or E12/8, I'd buy it in a heartbeat.

    A mechanic who knows these cars well won't be easy to find though, considering how old they (the cars and those mechanics) are by now. If you can find one, consider it a bonus. But to be honest, I don't think the E12 will be much different from the E21 (also a very nice little car by the way, I knew an old car club member who had a 323i BAUR cabriolet), except larger and maybe a few extra features since it's a more luxurious model.
    1999 BMW Z3 2.8 Roadster - show project
    1970 VW 411L Auto - show/restoration project (sold)
    1982 BMW 518i E12/8 - stolen
    1987 Mazda 323 1.5 SL - daily driver, backup show car

  25. #125
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    1975 530i 4 speed
    Quote Originally Posted by mcgee View Post
    I think that e12 weren't imported in 75, though. If there are any I think it might be years before one is available for sale in whatever condition.

    Understood that condition matters, of course. But what are the model-specific things to look out for? Is it electrical, or oil-burning, burning automatics, steering linkage wear, etc.? Does all the stuff in the dash disintegrate and stop working, leaving tons of parts-searching and hours of work? Is the fuel system the biggest problem area?
    Yes, the e12 530i made its debut in 1975 model year, it replaced the Bavaria (e3) and was the new cheaper model, the next up being the 3.0Si (e3) which was the Bavaria with all the options standard. Both cars used the same engine/gearbox, so did the 1977 630CSi (but with the later automatic mentioned below).

    In total, nearly 50,000 e12s were sold in North America from 1975 to 1981. The car has no fundamental problems, except for the thermal reactors used during 1975-78. However, any existing car probably has the reactors removed, and a set of headers fitted. The cylinder head is also probably not the original. Nothing except wear and tear items to worry about. That said, the 3 speed ZF 3HP 22 auto used from 1977 on, is a better unit (and can cope with a 3.5 motor) than the preceding BW65. That said, if you drove 10 surviving e12s, the one in best condition will drive the best. Doesn't matter which year when buying today, the car's condition at hand is paramount. There are still some well cared for e12s out there, gotta look for them. In California H&B Specialists have been experts since day one, they have a website.
    Getting parts, any pre e30 BMW is in the same boat, less NOS stuff around as the years go by. Doesn't matter if its a 1985 635CSi or a Bavaria etc. you are in the same boat. So, get the best condition car you can get your hands on. More spent now, means less spent later.
    Last edited by e12Euro; 01-14-2019 at 11:35 AM.

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