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Thread: Brake booster rebuild kits available

  1. #26
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Del Mar, CA
    Posts
    637
    My Cars
    2001 740i sport, 91 850i
    Quote Originally Posted by Max Lumens View Post
    BMSman, What is the diameter of your input shaft?
    Max Lumens, here is the dimension requested and some more info ....

    Input shaft OD = 16.60mm

    Input shaft seal:
    ..............................Original............ .......Supplied in kit
    Thickness................4.37mm................... ..4.52mm
    OD...........................23.4................. ..........23.75
    ID............................17.0................ ...........15.8
    ID lip........................16.0................... ........14.6

    As you can see, the replacement seal is far from identical to the original seal and appears to be too small ID.

    I am not equipped to measure the dims of the cavity into the booster body that this seal fits in. Its a snug fit so will reduce ID measured above which were loose seals. Neither seal has a garter spring.

    I await your response...

    updated 5/27: The original lip seal has some very small writing inside it. With a microscope I was able to read it... Ate 10.0101-9913.1 CFW NI 17-35 A 4
    Last edited by BMSman; 05-27-2016 at 01:27 PM.

  2. #27
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Posts
    18
    My Cars
    1991 BMW 850i
    IMG_2589.jpgIMG_2590.jpgIMG_2591.jpgIMG_2592.jpgIMG_2593.jpg

    Max

    Here are some photos of my dismantling the Brake Booster. As BMSman has stated there is much resistance to movement with these seal(s) from the rebuild kit manually.
    On my Booster like BMSman, it’s almost impossible to push the actuator through from the inside without a lot of pressure. Removing the seal from the input shaft freed up the moving parts so that they move normally. The input seal I removed is identical to BMSman’s seal he removed that we both received from your kit. This is a much larger and thicker seal. I believe this was and is the culprit, as we have brainstormed other possibilities.

    I have though since replaced the Improper Working / Un-functional Re-Built Brake Booster for safety reasons. Max will you replace this seal also. : ) I may be able to use it in the future. The diameter of the seal I removed is approximately 2 mm, measured across.

    56robbie60
    Last edited by 56robbie60; 05-28-2016 at 04:21 PM.

  3. #28
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Santa Ana, CA USA
    Posts
    787
    My Cars
    1987 m6 & 1988 m6
    So BMSman,


    You have decided to go with A1-Cardone at Rock Auto.
    Have you asked the if you will receive the same 16.6mm output shaft?
    You actually will not receive the 850i booster you will probably get an e24, e28, e32, (735) booster instead., with a 17.8mm dia output shaft.
    And for your $150.00 that is what you will get.

    I repaired an A1-Cardone booster for a client in Chicago once, both of his 2 Cardone boosters leaked, When I sent him one of mine, he returned the core.
    Upon taking it apart the core the shaft seal was installed upside down, and the low side pressure blew out the garter spring.
    It was wrapped around the 9.5 mm x 4 inch long shaft, on the outside of the booster between the M/C and the booster.
    And the shaft seal was alsosized incorrectley, it was a 10.0mm id, instead of factory spec of 9.5mm id, I have photos, just e-mail me e-mail address, along with your zip code for a FedEx ship quote.

    Were as, If I will rebuild your same booster for $120.00 + return shipping. 2 year warranty
    See my website the 9th photo, please read the caption under the photos.
    My website link is in my footer.

    Best,

    Jay



    Quote Originally Posted by BMSman View Post
    I did some more work on this this evening and believe I have identified the problem (brake pedal not fully returning when released). If you saw my video in the main section the input shaft was extremely tight. So I removed the seal on the input shaft and without it, the piston moves smoothly with about the resistance I would expect.... The large internal spring will easily return it when the brake pedal is released.

    This prompted me to go looking for the seals I removed when I rebuilt the unit which fortunately I had kept. Below is a pic of the original input shaft seal on the left and the seal I received in Max's kit on the right.
    Attachment 573297
    As you can see, the replacement seal is much larger than the original - which made it extremely difficult to press the shaft through from inside (I had to make a special tool to do so). It grips the input shaft so tight the internal spring can not completely overcome the friction. Hopefully this was just an oversight and Max can supply the correct seal.

    In my frustration with this I too ordered a replacement brake booster today now hopefully I won't need it!
    Jay
    '88 M6 Cinnabar Red / Nappa Natur Highline Interior (10-87) Santa Ana, California. USA
    My M6 read the instructions on page 2,3,4 to view the info panel (CAPTIONS)
    https://photos.google.com/share/AF1Q...Q3WnVTTHVZanhR
    Booster repair
    https://photos.google.com/share/AF1Q...NpZDRQVHlGal9n
    PSP repair
    https://photos.google.com/share/AF1Q...o5YmFsZGROX2tn
    SLS repair
    https://photos.google.com/share/AF1Q...QtUmpHNWxUdEtB

  4. #29
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Del Mar, CA
    Posts
    637
    My Cars
    2001 740i sport, 91 850i
    Jay,

    I wish it were different but you are are 100% correct! The Cardone unit leaked as soon as it was installed (from the input shaft, all over my carpet)! I'm so pissed off with this I don't know where to begin... now I have to deal with the idiots at Partsgeek.com - my 2nd mistake!

    But it did prove the input shaft was the problem I think as the brake pedal returned normally and steering no longer noisy.
    Last edited by BMSman; 05-31-2016 at 01:00 PM.

  5. #30
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Posts
    18
    My Cars
    1991 BMW 850i
    I am so sorry to hear THAT!! All of this should have never happened if we were provided the correct seals. Like you I have the A1Cardone installed ordered from partsgeek. It looked liked the OEM unit out of the box, not painted over and clean, however I have not yet experienced any leaks. This booster issue is turning into a nightmare and a big unnecessary waste of money to have to keep putting out for a satisfactory working part. I'm sure I'm probably due for a failure too, same product same company. We both just wanted to get things right on our cars. Wow! what a mess!!! SHAME ON A1CARDONE!!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Max you gotta make this right!

  6. #31
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Santa Ana, CA USA
    Posts
    787
    My Cars
    1987 m6 & 1988 m6
    BMSman,


    Thanks for the PM.
    I do not agree with your analysis if the u-cup seal as being too tight, and being the culprit, and your non professional judgment. As I mentioned to you in a PM last week, that there is 1800 psi pressing on the u-cup seal, and it needs to be tight.

    Thus you are comparing a 25 year old BMW seal that has lost its elasticity, and and the rubber is now so very hard, from the high compression and 25 years of hot and cold cycles.
    If you would go back and examine say the old o-rings, and what has happened to them in 25 years, maybe your light bulb would go on.

    The cross section of a 3 x 38 o-ring now can look oval (egg shaped). Because of the 25 years of compression, and the now brittle rubber will not compress at all, and it is very hard.
    Now the o-ring can measure 2.5mm in CS height and 3.25mm in width.

    I think the problem with your brakes is that there is still air in the lines, or you forgot to put the under dash pedal return spring back on.
    There is more than enough force from the internal 1800 psi and the internal booster long spring. This internal spring exerts a spring force of 50 pounds.
    I use a similar u-cup that ML uses, and I have never encountered your claim before of the u-cup seal being too tight.
    If you send your booster to me for me to rebuild, you cannot use that excuse with my boosters, as the physics you describe are impossible, I have taken engineering physics in collage.
    And have rebuilt over 100 boosters.

    Best,

    Jay



    Quote Originally Posted by BMSman View Post
    Jay,

    I wish it were different but you are are 100% correct! The Cardone unit leaked as soon as it was installed (from the input shaft, all over my carpet)! I'm so pissed off with this I don't know where to begin... now I have to deal with the idiots at Partsgeek.com - my 2nd mistake!

    But it did prove the input shaft was the problem I think as the brake pedal returned normally and steering no longer noisy.
    Last edited by master6; 05-31-2016 at 02:45 PM.
    Jay
    '88 M6 Cinnabar Red / Nappa Natur Highline Interior (10-87) Santa Ana, California. USA
    My M6 read the instructions on page 2,3,4 to view the info panel (CAPTIONS)
    https://photos.google.com/share/AF1Q...Q3WnVTTHVZanhR
    Booster repair
    https://photos.google.com/share/AF1Q...NpZDRQVHlGal9n
    PSP repair
    https://photos.google.com/share/AF1Q...o5YmFsZGROX2tn
    SLS repair
    https://photos.google.com/share/AF1Q...QtUmpHNWxUdEtB

  7. #32
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Del Mar, CA
    Posts
    637
    My Cars
    2001 740i sport, 91 850i
    Jay,
    I am an engineer.... My non-professional judgement is offered as a hypothesis and I still believe it to be the most plausible.

    The brakes had no air in them - they worked very very well and would not have had there been air in the lines. The master is brand new. My complaint was the brake pedal not returning freely and fully when released. The brake master cylinder will push back when the brakes are engaged but in the pedal up position and well before it, the master cylinder exerts little or no force on the booster shaft - it is entirely the spring in the booster and on the pedal itself that return the brake pedal to the full up position. The spring on the pedal looks to be fine and was not touched - it lifts the pedal fully up when disconnected from the booster.

    I do understand there is high pressure behind the input shaft seal but this does not help return the brake pedal when released, on the contrary, it will force the seal to grip the input shaft even tighter. The ML seal is extremely tight even without any pressure behind the seal. With pressure it will be even tighter. I disagree that the spring has sufficient force to overcome this. However, not by much - my pedal was returning, just not as quickly as it should. This kept the brake lights on longer than necessary and dragged the brakes a little.

    The seal is just a little too tight for the spring to overcome easily. My original seal did not leak (I would reuse it had I not damaged it with a pick when removing - it is still very flexible) and it has considerably less grip on the shaft. This was preventative maintenance since I had the top end apart for new valve seals! I believe the booster input shaft seal on your website has a slightly larger ID than the ML seal or are you saying it is the same part?

    I still may take you up on your offer but since I have already replaced all the seals in the booster and installed the aluminum cup, all I need now is a better fitting input shaft seal.

    Since I've had this booster in and out so many times now I have learned a few tips... Place some aluminum foil under the master cylinder before you pull off the reservoir. Shape it into a bowl. You cannot siphon out all of the brake fluid and when you pull it some will flow out over the car if you don't catch it. Afterwards place some paper towels in the captured brake fluid. Once soaked up you can gather up the foil and pull it out with nothing spilled on the car! Do the same thing when removing the master cylinder - rotate it so the inputs/outputs face upwards when lifting it out of the car (no spills). A 17mm crows foot on a 3/8" extension will fit behind the water valve and pump (no need to undo any heater hoses). Very little hydraulic fluid is lost - more aluminum foil will capture this.
    Last edited by BMSman; 05-31-2016 at 08:34 PM.

  8. #33
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Santa Ana, CA USA
    Posts
    787
    My Cars
    1987 m6 & 1988 m6
    BMSman,

    I disagree with your analysis of the friction from a very smooth polished output shaft having been lubed buy petrosin, making it very slippery indeed.

    And the force that is exerted by a tiny u-cup seal onto this rod is not sufficient to stop the 50 pounds of force exerted by the internal booster spring.

    You need to back to engineering physics and study the coefficient of friction part.

    Do not send me your booster to repair, as you have another problem that is not related, to your perceived incredible u-cup friction dilemma.

    Best,

    Jay


    Quote Originally Posted by BMSman View Post
    Jay,
    I am an engineer.... My non-professional judgement is offered as a hypothesis and I still believe it to be the most plausible.

    The brakes had no air in them - they worked very very well and would not have had there been air in the lines. The master is brand new. My complaint was the brake pedal not returning freely and fully when released. The brake master cylinder will push back when the brakes are engaged but in the pedal up position and well before it, the master cylinder exerts little or no force on the booster shaft - it is entirely the spring in the booster and on the pedal itself that return the brake pedal to the full up position. The spring on the pedal looks to be fine and was not touched - it lifts the pedal fully up when disconnected from the booster.

    I do understand there is high pressure behind the input shaft seal but this does not help return the brake pedal when released, on the contrary, it will force the seal to grip the input shaft even tighter. The ML seal is extremely tight even without any pressure behind the seal. With pressure it will be even tighter. I disagree that the spring has sufficient force to overcome this. However, not by much - my pedal was returning, just not as quickly as it should. This kept the brake lights on longer than necessary and dragged the brakes a little.

    The seal is just a little too tight for the spring to overcome easily. My original seal did not leak (I would reuse it had I not damaged it with a pick when removing - it is still very flexible) and it has considerably less grip on the shaft. This was preventative maintenance since I had the top end apart for new valve seals! I believe the booster input shaft seal on your website has a slightly larger ID than the ML seal or are you saying it is the same part?

    I still may take you up on your offer but since I have already replaced all the seals in the booster and installed the aluminum cup, all I need now is a better fitting input shaft seal.

    Since I've had this booster in and out so many times now I have learned a few tips... Place some aluminum foil under the master cylinder before you pull off the reservoir. Shape it into a bowl. You cannot siphon out all of the brake fluid and when you pull it some will flow out over the car if you don't catch it. Afterwards place some paper towels in the captured brake fluid. Once soaked up you can gather up the foil and pull it out with nothing spilled on the car! Do the same thing when removing the master cylinder - rotate it so the inputs/outputs face upwards when lifting it out of the car (no spills). A 17mm crows foot on a 3/8" extension will fit behind the water valve and pump (no need to undo any heater hoses). Very little hydraulic fluid is lost - more aluminum foil will capture this.
    Jay
    '88 M6 Cinnabar Red / Nappa Natur Highline Interior (10-87) Santa Ana, California. USA
    My M6 read the instructions on page 2,3,4 to view the info panel (CAPTIONS)
    https://photos.google.com/share/AF1Q...Q3WnVTTHVZanhR
    Booster repair
    https://photos.google.com/share/AF1Q...NpZDRQVHlGal9n
    PSP repair
    https://photos.google.com/share/AF1Q...o5YmFsZGROX2tn
    SLS repair
    https://photos.google.com/share/AF1Q...QtUmpHNWxUdEtB

  9. #34
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Posts
    18
    My Cars
    1991 BMW 850i
    Jay, “master6”
    From your post, I can tell that you have read and understood the issues (same Issues) that BMSman and I were having upon installing Max Lumens E31 Booster Rebuild Kit. As you have read my initial post, it stated that I didn’t have these slow to return and steering whining issues, “same as BMSman” until the installation of Max’s Kit. I started changing out old parts, due to age and not mileage, as the “8” has only 92K. The changing of old parts was for preventative maintenance that I decided to knock out when the brake bomb failed, and being that the car is 25yrs old having some of the same OEM installed parts. For peace of mind and reliability because I plan on putting highway miles on the “8” this year, I have changed out or is in the process of changing out all the major old worn parts I can. Before changing out and Installing ML Kit in the Brake Booster it worked just fine. But for peace of mind and due to age I decided to do preventative maintenance on the booster, ordered and installed Max’s Kit. Upon installation of the kit, I immediately noticed after driving the car less than a mile the slow to return brake issue. If the car was off and I pumped the brakes the pedal would return quickly but slow to return and a whining in the steering when the car was running. Being that the car is not an everyday driver, like BMSman I believed it was something in the kit I installed. I gave the booster a break-in period, thinking new parts things are tight, but none of that alleviated the problem, it seemed to get worse. With the Kit installed booster I did not experience any leaks. I power bled the brake system and hydraulic and insured no air was in the system. After experiencing this whining and continued slow to return brake issue, I decided the kit installed brake booster had to go. Other members chimed in and gave their opinion as to what the problem may be. I took their advice into consideration, however knew that it had to be something else. I purchased an A1 Cardone Booster. I did some research on the reliability of the Cardone unit and read that the reconditioned units were reconditioned to OEM spec or close to it, so I gave it a try. The unit I received matched my OEM booster exactly from the outside. It read ATE and had the BMW metal stamp. I did not dismantle this unit to check the inner working parts and seals. “just a note when I ordered Max’s kit I did notice that my rear seal was different; it was smaller than the one I received from Max’s kit, the kit has a larger and thicker one.” At that time I didn’t think anything of it as I trusted Max’s rep with the kit." So after I installed the A1 Cardone booster, power bled the brake system, Dot 4 yellow, back to Dot 4 blue, bled the steering using bleeder and suggested steering wheel turns, I took the “8” out for a test drive, no whining no slow to return brake pedal. Everything worked and as to this day works as it is suppose to. So far no leaking. So how are two guys suppose to think. Other members have had issues also. Same issues, from same installation, same source, same brake rebuild kit? I have to believe it has everything/something to do with Max’s kit, reference the before booster, no problems, the kit installation, problems, and after, “reconditioned booster, no problems. I am far from being an expert on booster function, and have tried to find out what has caused this kit install problem, “the so called Culpret term that I used”. Other than the rear seal issue, I still haven’t a solid clue. All the other parts worked just fine and all the seals Max included were visually the same except for the rear seal, it was thicker and larger. I am not an engineer, nor am I a rocket scientist, but I do know the kit I paid Max for $120.00 didn’t work and there has to be a tangible reason. I can understand BMSman’s frustration, bad luck times two. You shouldn’t get or be upset at him; we all have a difference of opinion. The clashing of the minds. Finding out what the problem really is if possible helps all of us including Max. I am very happy you posted your services.
    Last edited by 56robbie60; 06-01-2016 at 11:00 AM.

  10. #35
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Del Mar, CA
    Posts
    637
    My Cars
    2001 740i sport, 91 850i
    Jay,

    I do appreciate your feedback and your latest post led me to this possibility....

    When I re-assembled my booster I applied some silicone grease on the input shaft - this may have been a mistake. There is large felt washer inside the rubber boot... I overlooked its purpose which I think is to keep the input shaft lubricated? My felt washer is very dry and perhaps now contaminated with a little silicone grease. Do you pre-soak this felt washer in lubricant and what do you use (you mention Pentosin)?

    As 56Robbie60 has experienced also, replacing the booster with Cardone unit fixed the problem - only in my case it leaked oil into the footwell. The problem lies in the booster rebuild.

  11. #36
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Santa Ana, CA USA
    Posts
    787
    My Cars
    1987 m6 & 1988 m6
    BMSman,


    Bmw specs Petrocin instead of ATF fo the hydraulic fluid in the later BMW;s after around 1990 guessing,
    As the output shaft goes in and out during the course of driving there is some Petrosin deposited on the output shaft, this keeps the u-cup seal lubed.
    When I do a rebuild I spray some WD-40 onto the inner side of the felt washer.


    56 Robbie,


    For some reason my screen (I use the black background) comes in, barely readiable not white, but black over grey, and i cannot read it.
    Later tonight I will change my screen back to white, its dinner time now.


    Best,

    - - - Updated - - -

    Robbie,

    Ok when I switched to the white screen, I could read your post.

    I use a similar seal to what ML uses, If you have visited my website, I list the sizes of my u-cup seal versus the old brittle factory 850 u-cup seal.
    I am in a similar business to ML, were as I sell DIY Booster repair kits, but I sell for all of the Hydraulic boosters, including e23, e24, e28, e32.

    But I have deviated from ML's path, and I offer a rebuild service, for boosters, PSP's and SLS pumps. I also have rebuilt spares I can send if you have a daily driver. and I only charge $30.00 for my DIY repair kit. Less than ML's.
    Although ML's aluminum cup is a great product and price.

    I also delved into the 750 e32 boosters and discovered the change from the o-ring to the u-cup seal,
    I bought a later 750 booster disassembled it and searched for a replacement size for the u-cup seal.
    After I found a similar size, I assembled the 750, and installed into my m6, as a test mule. After about 45 days, I removed the 750 later and put the early 750 booster back into my m.

    I the started to market that I could use my rebuild service to also do the 750's with the u-cup.
    The first u-cup I did for my m6 was a bitch to install at 10 min, and the second took even longer like 20 min.
    I then canceled my DIY rebuild kit as it was too complicated for a client to install.

    But I said I would only rebuild them via my rebuild service.
    I have now rebuilt about 15 units, and not had a single problem.

    How ever your problem and BSM's problem's are not making any sense to me.
    The hydraulic brake booster is the simplest system in the car, it always works, as it is pressure actuated, it only fault is the rubber o-rings get old and loose their elasticity and change the cross sectional size, and they leak.
    it's like water you know when it changes into steam, or when it evaporates, and when it becomes a solid, at 32 deg. The booster is governed by physics.

    When your power steering pump whines, there is probably air in the system, and you turn the steering wheel lock to lock.

    I think that many problems are related to air in the brake lines.
    And I personally use the reverse bleed method to get all of the air out. I have never used a pressure bleeder, as I always work alone.
    Some people do not like the Reverse Bleed Method as they believe it pushes the dirty brake fluid back into the system. And I agree with that.

    First I change out to all new fluid, then I use the reverse method look in (You Tube), and search BMW Clutch Bleed, view the 9 min video from BMP. (It always comes up first).
    You can use the same principle from the clutch bleed to also apply it tho brake bleeding.
    Start at the RR, LR, RF, LF.

    Okay back to the u-cup, my seal is larger the factory, and I like that, a tighter seal means no leaks. This too much friction problem, is impossible and it cannot exist - period!

    I cannot explain and have no answer for your problems, but like I said to BSM, do not send me your booster, as as he has something else going on.

    My booster rebuilds have very few problems, I finally ironed out the last one by changing to a different glue for glueing the shaft seal into the black plastic cup.

    And I stand behind my product and offer a 2 year warranty on my rebuilds.


    Best,

    Jay



    Quote Originally Posted by 56robbie60 View Post
    Jay, “master6”
    From your post, I can tell that you have read and understood the issues (same Issues) that BMSman and I were having upon installing Max Lumens E31 Booster Rebuild Kit. As you have read my initial post, it stated that I didn’t have these slow to return and steering whining issues, “same as BMSman” until the installation of Max’s Kit. I started changing out old parts, due to age and not mileage, as the “8” has only 92K. The changing of old parts was for preventative maintenance that I decided to knock out when the brake bomb failed, and being that the car is 25yrs old having some of the same OEM installed parts. For peace of mind and reliability because I plan on putting highway miles on the “8” this year, I have changed out or is in the process of changing out all the major old worn parts I can. Before changing out and Installing ML Kit in the Brake Booster it worked just fine. But for peace of mind and due to age I decided to do preventative maintenance on the booster, ordered and installed Max’s Kit. Upon installation of the kit, I immediately noticed after driving the car less than a mile the slow to return brake issue. If the car was off and I pumped the brakes the pedal would return quickly but slow to return and a whining in the steering when the car was running. Being that the car is not an everyday driver, like BMSman I believed it was something in the kit I installed. I gave the booster a break-in period, thinking new parts things are tight, but none of that alleviated the problem, it seemed to get worse. With the Kit installed booster I did not experience any leaks. I power bled the brake system and hydraulic and insured no air was in the system. After experiencing this whining and continued slow to return brake issue, I decided the kit installed brake booster had to go. Other members chimed in and gave their opinion as to what the problem may be. I took their advice into consideration, however knew that it had to be something else. I purchased an A1 Cardone Booster. I did some research on the reliability of the Cardone unit and read that the reconditioned units were reconditioned to OEM spec or close to it, so I gave it a try. The unit I received matched my OEM booster exactly from the outside. It read ATE and had the BMW metal stamp. I did not dismantle this unit to check the inner working parts and seals. “just a note when I ordered Max’s kit I did notice that my rear seal was different; it was smaller than the one I received from Max’s kit, the kit has a larger and thicker one.” At that time I didn’t think anything of it as I trusted Max’s rep with the kit." So after I installed the A1 Cardone booster, power bled the brake system, Dot 4 yellow, back to Dot 4 blue, bled the steering using bleeder and suggested steering wheel turns, I took the “8” out for a test drive, no whining no slow to return brake pedal. Everything worked and as to this day works as it is suppose to. So far no leaking. So how are two guys suppose to think. Other members have had issues also. Same issues, from same installation, same source, same brake rebuild kit? I have to believe it has everything/something to do with Max’s kit, reference the before booster, no problems, the kit installation, problems, and after, “reconditioned booster, no problems. I am far from being an expert on booster function, and have tried to find out what has caused this kit install problem, “the so called Culpret term that I used”. Other than the rear seal issue, I still haven’t a solid clue. All the other parts worked just fine and all the seals Max included were visually the same except for the rear seal, it was thicker and larger. I am not an engineer, nor am I a rocket scientist, but I do know the kit I paid Max for $120.00 didn’t work and there has to be a tangible reason. I can understand BMSman’s frustration, bad luck times two. You shouldn’t get or be upset at him; we all have a difference of opinion. The clashing of the minds. Finding out what the problem really is if possible helps all of us including Max. I am very happy you posted your services.
    Last edited by master6; 06-02-2016 at 02:22 AM.
    Jay
    '88 M6 Cinnabar Red / Nappa Natur Highline Interior (10-87) Santa Ana, California. USA
    My M6 read the instructions on page 2,3,4 to view the info panel (CAPTIONS)
    https://photos.google.com/share/AF1Q...Q3WnVTTHVZanhR
    Booster repair
    https://photos.google.com/share/AF1Q...NpZDRQVHlGal9n
    PSP repair
    https://photos.google.com/share/AF1Q...o5YmFsZGROX2tn
    SLS repair
    https://photos.google.com/share/AF1Q...QtUmpHNWxUdEtB

  12. #37
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Del Mar, CA
    Posts
    637
    My Cars
    2001 740i sport, 91 850i
    Jay,

    I plan to try a different input shaft seal. Do you use a Urethane U-Cup seal? Although metric sizes are available, 5/8" ID x 1"OD x 3/16" thick looks like a close match and a standard size?

  13. #38
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Santa Ana, CA USA
    Posts
    787
    My Cars
    1987 m6 & 1988 m6
    BMSman,


    No urethane, NBR is best with ATF or Petrosin. My u-cup seal is the perfect size, in my opinion!

    16.0 x 24.0 x 4.5 the output shaft is 16.6mm ID


    Quote Originally Posted by BMSman View Post
    Jay,

    I plan to try a different input shaft seal. Do you use a Urethane U-Cup seal? Although metric sizes are available, 5/8" ID x 1"OD x 3/16" thick looks like a close match and a standard size?
    Jay
    '88 M6 Cinnabar Red / Nappa Natur Highline Interior (10-87) Santa Ana, California. USA
    My M6 read the instructions on page 2,3,4 to view the info panel (CAPTIONS)
    https://photos.google.com/share/AF1Q...Q3WnVTTHVZanhR
    Booster repair
    https://photos.google.com/share/AF1Q...NpZDRQVHlGal9n
    PSP repair
    https://photos.google.com/share/AF1Q...o5YmFsZGROX2tn
    SLS repair
    https://photos.google.com/share/AF1Q...QtUmpHNWxUdEtB

  14. #39
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Del Mar, CA
    Posts
    637
    My Cars
    2001 740i sport, 91 850i
    Is it sold as a 16x24x4.5? all i have been able to find so far is 16x24x5. May be the 5.0 thickness actually measures about 4.5?

    Quote Originally Posted by master6 View Post
    BMSman,


    No urethane, NBR is best with ATF or Petrosin. My u-cup seal is the perfect size, in my opinion!

    16.0 x 24.0 x 4.5 the output shaft is 16.6mm ID

  15. #40
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Posts
    18
    My Cars
    1991 BMW 850i
    Master6 Check PM

    BMSman did you receive the PM I sent you on Memorial Day?

  16. #41
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Del Mar, CA
    Posts
    637
    My Cars
    2001 740i sport, 91 850i
    Here's an update...

    Master6 was kind enough to send me a couple of used original input shaft seals and one of them looks to be in good shape - Thank you! I wasn't able to convince him to sell me one of his replacement seals but at least I have something to get me up and running again.

    No replies to PM's sent to Max Lumens.... Most of the seals in his kit may be identical to the originals but the input shaft seal most definitely is not. My recommendation would be not to swap this out unless it is leaking (at least if your booster has a 16.6mm input shaft).

    Partsgeek.com have processed my refund for the Cardone booster in record time - just a few days. I really can't complain except that I did have to pay return shipping to New York even though the part came from just up the road. Turned out much better than I expected after reading the horror stories online.

    I have ordered a small selection of hydraulic seals myself 16 x 24 x 5 mm. These may or may not fit (none have arrived yet). I just found a 16 x 24 x 4.5 mm U-cup seal in Europe - trying to get a few samples!

    I ran out of brake fluid and hydraulic fluid so had to order more. Once everything arrives I'll take another stab at this.
    Last edited by BMSman; 06-10-2016 at 11:28 PM.

  17. #42
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Del Mar, CA
    Posts
    637
    My Cars
    2001 740i sport, 91 850i
    Here's another update ..... I was so peed off I had to take a break from it ....

    I rebuilt the booster for about the 4th time this time replacing the input shaft seal with an original part that Master6 was kind enough to give me. And what a difference... no more groaning from the steering and the brake pedal returns just as it should. There is now absolutely no question in my mind that the seal Max Lumens provides in his rebuild kit was the cause of my problems. He by the way never replied to any of my emails.

    The Cardone booster that leaked out the box unit went back to Partsgeek and they refunded my full purchase price pretty quickly. I was still out the return postage but expected that.

    After looking at the seal in Max Lumens kit more closely it looks like a standard 16 x 24 x 5mm hydraulic seal that has been sanded down to reduce its thickness... it has a noticeably dull face and no markings on the seal whatsoever. I tried doing the same thing to a similar seal I purchased online and was able to replicate it quite nicely.

  18. #43
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Mill Creek, WA
    Posts
    3,969
    My Cars
    98 740iL, 01 Suzuki TL10
    Found this thread via a Google search. Are there rebuild kits for the E46 brake booster vs spending $150 for one?

  19. #44
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Sunny Cali,
    Posts
    8,200
    My Cars
    6.5 second 69 Camaro
    If that's the price for a new one, I wouldn't bother rebuilding.

  20. #45
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Tustin, California USA
    Posts
    1,657
    My Cars
    1993 850Ci
    Quote Originally Posted by 8eights View Post
    If that's the price for a new one, I wouldn't bother rebuilding.
    Wow, wish the E31 version was that reasonably priced.
    1993 850Ci.....158,000 miles and counting!

  21. #46
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Santa Ana, CA USA
    Posts
    787
    My Cars
    1987 m6 & 1988 m6
    Quote Originally Posted by m5james View Post
    Found this thread via a Google search. Are there rebuild kits for the E46 brake booster vs spending $150 for one?
    m5james,

    This thread has been about a Hydraulic brake booster, the e46 3 series uses a vacuum system. Your information is not relevant.
    Jay
    '88 M6 Cinnabar Red / Nappa Natur Highline Interior (10-87) Santa Ana, California. USA
    My M6 read the instructions on page 2,3,4 to view the info panel (CAPTIONS)
    https://photos.google.com/share/AF1Q...Q3WnVTTHVZanhR
    Booster repair
    https://photos.google.com/share/AF1Q...NpZDRQVHlGal9n
    PSP repair
    https://photos.google.com/share/AF1Q...o5YmFsZGROX2tn
    SLS repair
    https://photos.google.com/share/AF1Q...QtUmpHNWxUdEtB

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