NCS Dummy - Taking the expert out of NCS Expert

[clawpt]

Can anyone please tell me how to check in NCS-Expert (or another software) what software version my car is running?

You mean which i-level? (and then Datens version?)

- - - Updated - - -

Revtor, I need your help
I have a 2008 Euro R56 with FRM2_R56.C0C. This module doesn't have functions to put front fog lights as DRL (fog lights, not "city lights"). I check FRM3 and also R56CVT and i found two functions that i think that are necessary:
039D 0008 // PWM_NSW_FKT_TFL
03BA 000E // DRL_TFL_MIT_NSW

This are under "GRUPPE : {"FRM_3"}". Can i add it to my FRM2 module? I tried but without success. Maybe wrong function order?
Thanks

[revtor]

clawpt: You cannot simply add function keywords to a module description file and hope it'll work. The keywords by themselves have no meaning. It's all about the addresses and bits. Unless you have reason to believe that a certain address controls functionality that is not described in the module description file, it's useless to experiment with this. In other words; if the FRM2 module does not support this functionality, it will never work.

[clawpt]

Thanks Revtor.
I'm aware that is all about addresses and bits, and also that i cannot add functions that are not supported by that module. But is there a way to know if it is supported without testing?
I just used empty addresses (that seemed logic to me) to add this functions...
Thanks again revtor!

[MParallel]

I'm using NCS Dummy on a notebook. Screen size is limited and I'm using the /smallscreen in the command line.

I still find the bottom section where it says file x was loaded correctly, n-ammount of modules found etc. a bit too large. Just the last line would be enough for me.

I'd rather use that space to show the parameter/value window. Also the buttons just above that lower message box take up 2 lines, while there is a big blank part right of the buttons.

Now this is all nice to haves and it works just fine, but maybe an option to have the text of these buttons on one line so they are half the current height and make them longer. There is more than enough space to the right to have them.

Or maybe an option to set font size in different area's. Don't know if that is very hard to implement.

[revtor]

I'm aware that is all about addresses and bits, and also that i cannot add functions that are not supported by that module. But is there a way to know if it is supported without testing?

Usually, no. Sometimes you can be lucky when a very similar module (like a different coding index) supports the feature and your own module matches most of its memory mapping. If your module has a small gap in the addressing or unoccupied functions at the address(es) where the feature is in the other module, there is a chance that your own module supports it too. In that case it's worthwhile to add function keywords and parameters through disassembly to find out.

However, don't bother comparing modules that have different memory mapping. Even though the FRM2 and FRM3 start out very similar, the memory mapping quickly differs further down the file. There is no visible correlation between, for example, "PWM_NSW_FKT_TFL" in the FRM3 module and an address gap or unoccupied function in the FRM2 module.

This does not necessarily mean that the feature is not supported by your module, but there's no way of telling. You could try to set custom values for unoccupied functions, but this can be extremely time-consuming for modules with lots of unoccupied functions. It's a shot in the dark and there's absolutely no guarantee that you'll ever find something. Unless you have evidence or strong suspicion that the feature is present but hidden, it's usually not worth the time and effort.

I'm using NCS Dummy on a notebook. Screen size is limited and I'm using the /smallscreen in the command line. I still find the bottom section where it says file x was loaded correctly, n-ammount of modules found etc. a bit too large. Just the last line would be enough for me.

Just the last line is not enough. Some actions result in 3 log entries and the first one may contain a warning with important information. Hence the choice of 3 lines minimum. And since a lot of the questions I get are about not reading what the log said, I definitely do not want to make it even smaller or hidden by default.

Just wondering: What resolution and DPI is your notebook? I've tested NCS Dummy extensively at 800x600 in Windows XP and 1024x768 in Windows 7. While I do agree that the graphical trace editor is small on these resolutions, it's certainly workable. If you really want to analyze modules and traces in depth, you may want to install NCS Dummy on a computer with a larger display. You don't even have to install NCS Expert on the other computer. NCS Dummy just needs the DATEN files and these can even be served from a network share.

Also the buttons just above that lower message box take up 2 lines, while there is a big blank part right of the buttons. Now this is all nice to haves and it works just fine, but maybe an option to have the text of these buttons on one line so they are half the current height and make them longer. There is more than enough space to the right to have them.

That space is only available if the application is made wider. At the default minimum width there is only a small empty space right from the buttons. Maybe I could make the buttons flow to single-line height if the window is wide enough, but Windows Forms is quite poor with dynamic layouts...

[MParallel]

Yes it's workable. Default DPI on 800x600 or it's 1024x600, on Win7 Pro. It's a 10" netbook (maybe I confused with notebook).

I have Dummy installed on my regular computer for more in dept analyzing. It's just when using the Netbook on the car, but it's still workable.

I understand the point on the message window. You don't want questions if the answer is right there.

[clawpt]

Thanks Revtor.
I see the huge differences you mentioned between FRM2 and FRM3.
Maybe when i'm bored i'll try those "shots in the dark".

BTW, i use a netbook (10'') to read/write modules, it's enough. When i need to do some "research", i use a much larger screen.

[syclone2032]

i tried to add a parameter to a KOMBI module, but when i right-click on a function or a function parameter, all i am offered is "copy keyword".
KOMBI module is from a E82, NCSDummy filter chose KMBI_PL2.C08 with 96.3% match.
i also tried another module (DSC) but also no luck.
maybe i don't see the obvious, but i am stuck...

[MParallel]

^^

You have a trace file selected. Under chassis, you have the module, under there the file you are reading. You can only add the new parameter if no file is selected.

You can press the button and select "clear" (iirc) to unload any file. Then you get the add parameter option.

[syclone2032]

HA! got it, thank you!!!!

[Andysk1]

This post is awesome!

Very Informative!

Just wanted to stop in and say thank you for this great piece of software! Certainly makes things easier!

[MaxdMerc]

A quick thank you for this tool.
It's made a real difference.

[ssshake]

Is NCS dummy in active development?

[revtor]

ssshake: The last release was only 2 months ago and I'm open for feature requests or bug reports.

[David Mc]

Your best release yet Revtor. NCS Dummy is one of the most useful items of BMW diagnostic related software I have.

[revtor]

Thank you for your kind words, David!

[ssshake]

ssshake: The last release was only 2 months ago and I'm open for feature requests or bug reports.

Good to hear. I love this program, it certainly got me over the hurdle of just toggling options to now adding my own values.

I do have a few feature requests. (do you maintain an issue tracker like on github or something similar?).

Here's some features:

-ability to collapse the tree by group, feature, options. Basically I want to condense the list on the fly so that I can see all of the options in a contiguous list. Then expand a feature as needed (click a plus sign) to reveal its options.

-embed an explorer window or some other implementation of a file browser to quickly navigate from one nettodat file to another, with an option to load the file to work on it. I do a full export of my ecu's to respective folder names before I work on a car. Then I can just hop around from folder to folder toggling options.

-ability to quickly toggle history (before and after) on and off. This could be accomplished if you just save an original copy of a file in some local temp location. Then when I make a change to a file, you can use the existing code in your app to compare the two files and show the difference. Basically I'm just asking for an easier/brainless way to use your "compare trace 2" option. I use this constantly to see what I've changed to date, compared to my original, stock export.

What is your source of feature definitions? I notice there's a lot with no description. It would be nice if content could be submitted in a fluid way as people figure out what each feature is. Is there some central repository of feature descriptions? It seems like it's fragmented.. a forum post here, a spreadsheet there, etc.

thanks

[MParallel]

Yes, it's hard to come up with new suggestions when it can already do all about you can wish for, and what is possible to begin with.

Only thing left for me, but not directly NCS Dummy related is how to get newer module functions to work in older modules. If something like that would be possible at all. Or like making the old carphone quad-band instead of just 900mhz.

[revtor]

Only thing left for me, but not directly NCS Dummy related is how to get newer module functions to work in older modules. If something like that would be possible at all. Or like making the old carphone quad-band instead of just 900mhz.

In nearly all cases the old hardware is the limitation. If it would have supported the newer functionality through a simple software update, the manufacturer would have chosen that path because it's much cheaper than developing newer hardware.

[TerraPhantm]

In nearly all cases the old hardware is the limitation. If it would have supported the newer functionality through a simple software update, the manufacturer would have chosen that path because it's much cheaper than developing newer hardware.

In some cases the hardware is capable, but BMW didn't leave a mechanism for flashing new software. Take the E46 LSZs for example. The C35, C36, and C37 LSZs have identical hardware. I dumped the flash from the C37 unit via BDM and flashed it to C35 and C36 units -- they work and the new functions work as they would on a real C37 LSZ (and NCS sees them as c37 units)

[revtor]

TerraPhantm: Of course there are cases where the difference between the old and new version is (mostly) just software. A manufacturer will not develop (entirely) new hardware unless the old one no longer suffices. The fact that the software cannot be (easily) user-upgraded is something else. Obviously the manufacturer would want you to buy the new module instead of upgrading the old one .

However, if the hardware is different your chances are slim. Sometimes the old hardware is very well capable of the new functionality, but there's simply no newer compatible software available (because the newer hardware is different). Since we do not have access to the source code, the only way to make changes is through reverse engineering which requires expert knowledge and is extremely time-consuming. In addition many modern modules have protection against tampering with the software which adds an extra layer of difficulty. In most cases it's clear in advance that any attempt is a waste of time...

[MParallel]

Terra, do you know if the GM5 hardware differs from GM4? I guess it must be. The GM5 offers so many more and neat options, I'd love to have. Like remote ooening/closure of windows and softtop.

[TerraPhantm]

Terra, do you know if the GM5 hardware differs from GM4? I guess it must be. The GM5 offers so many more and neat options, I'd love to have. Like remote ooening/closure of windows and softtop.

Yeah I'm pretty sure they're completely different. The only time you'll really have the same hardware is within the same chassis/generation cars. Even then there are sometimes pretty significant changes during the facelifts

[revtor]

I do have a few feature requests. (do you maintain an issue tracker like on github or something similar?).

No, this forum thread is the user manual (first post) and place to report bugs or request features.

-ability to collapse the tree by group, feature, options. Basically I want to condense the list on the fly so that I can see all of the options in a contiguous list. Then expand a feature as needed (click a plus sign) to reveal its options.

Collapsing/expanding functions could be added, I guess, but collapsing/expanding groups is not possible at the moment. Groups are not on a separate level but are treated as functions without data. It's also not straightforward to treat groups as a higher level because functions do not need to belong to groups and groups may have colliding address ranges.

-embed an explorer window or some other implementation of a file browser to quickly navigate from one nettodat file to another, with an option to load the file to work on it. I do a full export of my ecu's to respective folder names before I work on a car. Then I can just hop around from folder to folder toggling options.

I am probably misunderstanding your request, but you get a file browser if you click the "Browse" button next to the "FSW/PSW or Nettodata trace 1" text box. Alternatively you can drag and drop trace files on the text box or you can assign the *.trc extension to NCS Dummy (use command line "<PathToNcsDummy>\NcsDummy.exe" /tracefile="%1"). If you use the CHASSIS-MODULE-FILENAME.TRC filename structure for your trace files NCS Dummy will automatically select chassis and module upon loading the file (for example E31-EKM.C25-FSW_PSW.TRC).

If you just want to load the FSW_PSW.TRC or NETTODAT.TRC from the WORK folder, you can use the "Browse" button's dropdown menu and select either "Load FSW_PSW.TRC" or "Load NETTODAT.TRC". If this file is loaded in NCS Dummy but in the mean time regenerated by NCS Expert, you can reload the file in NCS Dumy by selecting "Reload" from the "Browse" button dropdown menu or pressing F5 in the text box.

I've been thinking about adding something like a list of recent files to the "Browse" button dropdown menu.

-ability to quickly toggle history (before and after) on and off. This could be accomplished if you just save an original copy of a file in some local temp location. Then when I make a change to a file, you can use the existing code in your app to compare the two files and show the difference. Basically I'm just asking for an easier/brainless way to use your "compare trace 2" option. I use this constantly to see what I've changed to date, compared to my original, stock export.

I'll have to think this over but would you be helped if I added a new search option to find changed data in the trace editor? You would still see the full list, but clicking "Find Next" or pressing F3 would automatically jump between the functions that contain changes.

What is your source of feature definitions? I notice there's a lot with no description. It would be nice if content could be submitted in a fluid way as people figure out what each feature is. Is there some central repository of feature descriptions? It seems like it's fragmented.. a forum post here, a spreadsheet there, etc.

I assume you mean the function and parameter translations? Initially the translations began as a community effort and several hundreds of translations were added by users submitting lists and corrections - for which thanks - but in the end I did not get much submissions so the majority was added by myself. As reference I used BMW manuals, the Internet, experiments on my own cars, findings of other users, knowledge of German, deduction and common sense. Some translation are educated guesses, others are just translations of the German words but do not really clarify the meaning any further because no one knows what they do.

Older chassis up to the E53 should be covered quite well, the E60 has a fair amount of modules translated but anything newer did not get many new translations. Sorry, but translating this stuff is boring and extremely time-consuming. Newer modules get increasingly larger and more complex. Also BMW uses certain modules like the light control module differently in other models without changing the module descriptions. For example; what's clearly defined as outer rear tail lights in the module description file and really controls these lights in model A, might control the angel eyes in model B...

[vnt]

Is anyone aware if it is possible to enable
DTC_DCC - DYNAMIC CRUISE CONTROL (DCC) AVAILABLE IN DYNAMIC TRACTION CONTROL (DTC) MODE [WERT_00: DISABLED, WERT_01: ENABLED] on the DCS_89.C03 module?
When I try adding a new parameter WERT_01 to enable, I can know longer read the DSC_89.C03 module from the car.

Any info would be greatly appreciated.