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Thread: NCS Dummy - Taking the expert out of NCS Expert

  1. #826
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    On my e46 if there is an issue with the rain sensor it defaults back to time delay mode and the switch that used to adjust the rain sensor sensitivity now sets the delay between swipes. Look at your rain sensor from outside the windshield. There should be zero air bubbles. Solid black. There is a small round spot on the lower corner. I always assumed that was for the light sensor.

  2. #827
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    hey Flyfishvt, ya I read about that. its brand new glass. I checked that out after I noticed the rain sense wasn't working. looks perfect and ya, that small little hole seems to line up with the light sensor in the RLS. The original sensor had something loose inside, rattling around...when I opened it up it looked to be a surface mount resister that had come loose from the circuit board. if it would revert back to intermittent wipers with selectable delays...that would be great.... but no matter how much you rotate the dial it is always the same speed... basically low speed. I feel confident I am not coding it properly or not initializing it properly... either way.. the problem most likely is with what im doing...lol
    Quote Originally Posted by flyfishvt View Post
    On my e46 if there is an issue with the rain sensor it defaults back to time delay mode and the switch that used to adjust the rain sensor sensitivity now sets the delay between swipes. Look at your rain sensor from outside the windshield. There should be zero air bubbles. Solid black. There is a small round spot on the lower corner. I always assumed that was for the light sensor.

  3. #828
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    Quote Originally Posted by BriBird View Post
    hey Flyfishvt, ya I read about that. its brand new glass.
    ...
    if it would revert back to intermittent wipers with selectable delays...that would be great.... but no matter how much you rotate the dial it is always the same speed... basically low speed. I feel confident I am not coding it properly or not initializing it properly... either way.. the problem most likely is with what im doing...lol
    I had your symptoms after a new windshield on my E39: all water sensors reading 225 and rain sense generating random wipe cycles, even on a dry sunny day with zero water on the windshield. And no wipes when I sprayed water or when it rained. In my case the solution was a new prism, even though the windshield came with one installed. It was/is a Pilkington, who are a BMW supplier, although I've read not for the E39.

    On the chance that you might find some useful suggestions, see these threads for my experience.
    http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=800955
    http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...954&highlight=

    FWIW, after the shop installed a new prism on the windshield I had (and still have) a few bubbles. In spite of those my rain sense has worked perfectly for the 3 years since installation, or more precisely since the debugging.

    If you wish, the GM/ZKE can be coded to ignore the RLS and revert to pure time delay intermittent. The attached txt files are MAN's from my GM3 C05. The first is my standard configuration, with the key's remote able to close all windows and the sunroof (a European feature that rumour has it is banned by BMW's US lawyers). The second MAN I used to disable rain sense and enable time delay intermittent as I worked on solving my RLS problems. Remove the "txt" extensions from the file names and NCS for Dummies will show you which parameters are different.

    EDIT: I was hasty saying "GM/ZKE can be coded ..." An E39 GM can, probably an E53 too, but I don't know for a fact.
    Last edited by rdl; 09-03-2017 at 08:54 PM.
    Regards
    RDL

  4. #829
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    Hey RDL, hmmm. it is Pilkington premium glass I got installed that came with the prism already attached. Do you know if I can order just the Prism from the dealer??...or did you get a used one from OE glass?? I will mess with it some more tomorrow and I guess I may have to try coding it for just intermittent wipers although it sucks having new glass and a brand new sensor from the dealer and still have it not work properly.

    thanks for taking the time to offer some advice and attaching your MAN files for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by rdl View Post
    I had your symptoms after a new windshield on my E39: all water sensors reading 225 and rain sense generating random wipe cycles, even on a dry sunny day with zero water on the windshield. And no wipes when I sprayed water or when it rained. In my case the solution was a new prism, even though the windshield came with one installed. It was/is a Pilkington, who are a BMW supplier, although I've read not for the E39.

    On the chance that you might find some useful suggestions, see these threads for my experience.
    http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=800955
    http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...954&highlight=

    FWIW, after the shop installed a new prism on the windshield I had (and still have) a few bubbles. In spite of those my rain sense has worked perfectly for the 3 years since installation, or more precisely since the debugging.

    If you wish, the GM/ZKE can be coded to ignore the RLS and revert to pure time delay intermittent. The attached txt files are MAN's from my GM3 C05. The first is my standard configuration, with the key's remote able to close all windows and the sunroof (a European feature that rumour has it is banned by BMW's US lawyers). The second MAN I used to disable rain sense and enable time delay intermittent as I worked on solving my RLS problems. Remove the "txt" extensions from the file names and NCS for Dummies will show you which parameters are different.

    EDIT: I was hasty saying "GM/ZKE can be coded ..." An E39 GM can, probably an E53 too, but I don't know for a fact.

  5. #830
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    Quote Originally Posted by BriBird View Post
    Hey RDL, hmmm. it is Pilkington premium glass I got installed that came with the prism already attached. Do you know if I can order just the Prism from the dealer??...or did you get a used one from OE glass??
    ...
    Did your RLS work before the new windshield?
    If yes, I'd push the installer to accept responsibility. Assuming you're willing, suggest they try new prism as an alternative to another entire windshield R&R. If the RLS wasn't working beforehand, ask for a little good will, i.e. they get a prism for you from their glass supplier. Perhaps R&R it for you too.

    The installer had no difficulty getting a prism from his glass wholesaler. And he did all the work R&Ring the prism while I observed - around 15 minutes from opening the car door to spraying water on the w/s for a test. It isn't actually too difficult - definitely a DIY if you own the problem and are handy.

    So far as I know BMW doesn't list the prism. I've seen prisms for sale on internet sites but all were wholesale, e.g. selling batches of 10+, no singles. But unit price was only ~$20.

    EDIT: it's late & I forgot your RLS had a loose part. Have you tried coding the new RLS using my data from this thread?
    http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...954&highlight=
    Last edited by rdl; 09-04-2017 at 01:15 AM.
    Regards
    RDL

  6. #831
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    Quote Originally Posted by flyfishvt View Post
    I created a trace file for my GM5 module so I can change some of the remote lock/unlock settings. I made all the correct copies. When I open NCS Dummy the drop down menu lists 4 different GM5 modules. Only 1 of them appears to work with my .man file. I see the same thing with lots of other modules in that drop down menu. What are the other ones for?
    Those are the different coding indices of the module. Coding indices usually go together with hardware and/or software revisions of the module. It's important to pick the right one for your module. You should write down the correct coding index for your module after reading the trace file with NCS Expert. See chapter 6.1 in the NCS Dummy user manual for more details on correctly creating trace files for NCS Dummy.

    If for whatever reason you have a trace file of which you do not know the coding index (or even the module), you can let NCS Dummy detect it. See chapter 3.6 for more information.

  7. #832
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    Quote Originally Posted by rdl View Post
    Did your RLS work before the new windshield?
    If yes, I'd push the installer to accept responsibility. Assuming you're willing, suggest they try new prism as an alternative to another entire windshield R&R. If the RLS wasn't working beforehand, ask for a little good will, i.e. they get a prism for you from their glass supplier. Perhaps R&R it for you too.

    The installer had no difficulty getting a prism from his glass wholesaler. And he did all the work R&Ring the prism while I observed - around 15 minutes from opening the car door to spraying water on the w/s for a test. It isn't actually too difficult - definitely a DIY if you own the problem and are handy.

    So far as I know BMW doesn't list the prism. I've seen prisms for sale on internet sites but all were wholesale, e.g. selling batches of 10+, no singles. But unit price was only ~$20.

    EDIT: it's late & I forgot your RLS had a loose part. Have you tried coding the new RLS using my data from this thread?
    http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...954&highlight=
    It did work before the new windshield. Then right after the new windshield it didn't work... then I put it off cause it hadn't rained in awhile. then a rock hit the brand new windshield, maybe 3 weeks old!!! Got another Pilkington one put in. Still no rain sensor. Then I bought a used one off ebay from a E53... installed, but no work. then bought OBD cable and software to try and mess with it. Then bought new rain sensor from BMW dealer. Figured out how to code for an E53 as it came coded for a different model completely. The error code I am getting when I look at it in INPA is No Sensor Initialization. The error count was 15 when I messed with it this afternoon.
    I did just now today notice that under windshield types, it has standard windshield checked when I have Solar glass, which is the other option. I was able to check the heat reflective but have been unsuccessful at actually getting it to code with my change. On my windows 8 laptop I am not seeing any expot options when I am making changes... omg... I need a drink! lol

  8. #833
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    ok, I figured out where my export buttons were. I changed the resolution on my laptop and they showed up.. got it coded to having a heat reflective windshield now. Tried initializing in INPA.. but still all values other than the light ones are crap. INPA gives me a "language mismatch" warning when I first start into using it with my E53. is that normal???

  9. #834
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    Quote Originally Posted by BriBird View Post
    ...
    INPA gives me a "language mismatch" warning when I first start into using it with my E53. is that normal???
    Not for me. You might try checking other threads in this forum for help with that.
    Regards
    RDL

  10. #835
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    it would seem that the "language mismatch" only effects the language that errors are read in. That explains why I had to use a translator in my phone to understand what the error was in the RLS module. The error is that its unable to initialize the RLS.
    could this still be a prism problem?? I looked at the info in the thread you had posting a link to. It looks like I would need to order a #903 light prism as that says it fits my FW2382 solar glass windshield. Is the problem possibly with the mounting of the prism or the prism itself?? I don't understand how the new one will be any different than the one that came attached with the new Pilkington glass?? Or is it different maybe?

    thanks RDL, I appreciate your efforts in helping me sort this out.


    Quote Originally Posted by rdl View Post
    Not for me. You might try checking other threads in this forum for help with that.

  11. #836
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    uh oh.. hope I didn't post something I wasn't supposed to. I replied to you RDL and it said my post would not show up til it was approved by a moderator. Not sure what it was I said, but im sorry if I broke a rule of this site.

  12. #837
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    Quote Originally Posted by BriBird View Post
    uh oh.. hope I didn't post something I wasn't supposed to. I replied to you RDL and it said my post would not show up til it was approved by a moderator. Not sure what it was I said, but im sorry if I broke a rule of this site.
    No, it's all good. Members with low post count encounter this on occasion.

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  13. #838
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    Thanks MauiM3Mania! thought I may have blacked out from all the stress of rain sensor problems and developed sudden onset Tourette's syndrome. lmao


    Quote Originally Posted by MauiM3Mania View Post
    No, it's all good. Members with low post count encounter this on occasion.

  14. #839
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    Quote Originally Posted by BriBird View Post
    it would seem that the "language mismatch" only effects the language that errors are read in. That explains why I had to use a translator in my phone to understand what the error was in the RLS module. The error is that its unable to initialize the RLS.
    could this still be a prism problem?? I looked at the info in the thread you had posting a link to. It looks like I would need to order a #903 light prism as that says it fits my FW2382 solar glass windshield. Is the problem possibly with the mounting of the prism or the prism itself?? I don't understand how the new one will be any different than the one that came attached with the new Pilkington glass?? Or is it different maybe?

    thanks RDL, I appreciate your efforts in helping me sort this out.
    I don't know if it was the prism itself or attachment to the windshield in my case. Whichever it was, a new prism solved my problem. And I had a new Pilkington windshield too.

    BTW, it's belatedly occurred to me that we've engaged in a thread hijack these last several posts - we've strayed a long way off this thread's topic. My apologies to all those following this thread for NCS Dummies issues.

    BriBird, I'd recommend you start a new thread for any further questions related to your RLS problems.
    Regards
    RDL

  15. #840
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    Hey RDL, Thanks. Sorry for straying off topic. I initially posted on this thread I assumed I was having a coding problem... but now its looking like I have a hardware problem as coding isn't fixing it. I will try to initialize the RLS a few more times. Revtor has giving me some instructions that he was nice enough to find about the process. Maybe I have not been following the steps as I should. Key on, initialize, key off for 10 seconds, key back to run position for 10 seconds. I have always had problems with timing issues during the learning process. Was having problems relearning a key fob on my womans Maxima cause it required cycling the key on and off 7 times in 10 seconds... but not too fast....not under 10 seconds... more like 7 in 10 seconds exactly..lol

    thanks so much for all your efforts RDL. I read thru your PDF about the operation of the RLS module you had posted in your thread about your trials with the RLS monster. If I cant get it to initialize, I will try the new prism, or at least remove mine and reinstall before ordering a new one.
    Quote Originally Posted by rdl View Post
    I don't know if it was the prism itself or attachment to the windshield in my case. Whichever it was, a new prism solved my problem. And I had a new Pilkington windshield too.

    BTW, it's belatedly occurred to me that we've engaged in a thread hijack these last several posts - we've strayed a long way off this thread's topic. My apologies to all those following this thread for NCS Dummies issues.

    BriBird, I'd recommend you start a new thread for any further questions related to your RLS problems.

  16. #841
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    Just want to give a huge thanks to @revtor.
    Bought an X5 a couple of weeks ago, and had to replace some bits... Waterpump, belt tensioner, blah blah...
    Got around to coding it today. Took me about 2 minutes from start to finish to unlock all doors with one press, one touch windows with the door open, and one touch with the key out.
    Best instructions ever! If you read and follow, you can't go wrong!!!
    I've been following the thread for years, but my E38 didn't have much to play with. The X5 is much more fun.
    Thanks again revtor, you're a legend!
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  17. #842
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    ok. Just had one of my buddies come out with his AutoLogic expensive ass BMW computer tool(he works for a BMW independent repair shop) .....and another RLS sensor. Could not get my new RLS from BMW, my used one I got from Ebay, or the one he brought with him he knew as good to initialize. He doesn't understand what the problem could be as he was linked to the RLS and all seemed normal until initialization failed. He is of the opinion and agrees with you RDL that it should not be the glass itself as its Pilkington Premium glass.... and thinks the prism or the tape holding it must be the problem. So at this point I will order a new Prism and try that. OMG... why do things have to be so difficult!? lol Thanks for all your help on this and I will be sure to post my results.

  18. #843
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    Hi, everyone I'm having a little bit of trouble coding aux to my e60 530d 2005, so I have installed the cable which was no problem, and then I moved on to code it to my vehicle. I added to my Vo +NAUX then I moved on to the next stage and I keep getting the following error, any help would be highly appreciated. Thanks

    Everything works fine, I coded my new battery and some other things, but cant read cappl unit. Also tried update my spdaten files to v.60.1

    Error in CABD! Look at CABI.ERR and ERROR.LOG!
    COAPI-2041: Wrong ECU coding index A_E60CCC: CODIERINDEX= FFh
    CCC_APP.C04: CODIERINDEX= 04
    COAPI-2041: Wrong ECU coding index CODIERDATEN_LESEN

  19. #844
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    Is there a place to report missing translation entries ?

    Upon opening my GM5 FSW/PSW trace in NCS Dummy .0607, i received the following log entry:

    [E] 14:17:49 An error occurred while reading "C:\NCSEXPER\WORK\Original GM5.TRC": Unresolved function keyword "ANSTEUERZEIT_MOTOR_HKL". Make sure chassis and module match those of the trace file.

    What does ANSTEUERZEIT_MOTOR_HKL ?

    Update:
    Oops i was a bit ambitious with the coding version filter.

    ANSTEUERZEIT_MOTOR_HKL = Control time trunk lid release motor. It does not exist in newer in GM5.C05 but in other older versions it is present.

    The GM5 unit label has:
    HW1.0
    SW3.1

    Does SW3.1 mean i should use use the GM5.C04 because GM5.C03 does not exist in the NCS Dummy filter list ?

    What do 'ANSTEUERZEIT_MOTOR_HKL and ANSTEUERZEIT_MOTOR_HS do ?
    Last edited by ac427; 11-06-2017 at 12:07 PM.

  20. #845
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    ac427: You should always use the same module in NCS Dummy as reported by NCS Expert after reading the module. Refer to chapter 6 of the NCS Dummy user manual for more details.

    I'm not sure what the ANSTEUERZEIT_MOTOR_* functions do exactly, but the keywords suggest they control the actuation (ANSTEUER) time (ZEIT) of the motor (HKL = trunk lid, HS = touring rear window). In other words the duration the motor is ran to release the trunk lid or touring rear window. The functions accept 0 to 7 for possible values but the predefined value is always 0 for all BMW models... Later GM5 coding indices do have the reserved bits at the same addresses but no longer have functions assigned to them. Maybe this was planned functionality that never materialized?

  21. #846
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    Slightly Obsccure coding question--
    I do a lot of General Module capacitor replacements over in the E31 forum.

    It seems that lately, (last year or two) there are a few instances where the GMII coding has been corrupted and/or wiped to ECE (European) defaults. (Edit: I suspect bad capacitors are also the cause of this, since an unstable power supply to the micro could cause it to corrupt the stack, jump to a EEPROM coding vector, etc) I say corrupted because there is usually an implausible manufacture date and sometimes strange errors/faults logged. However, The worst offense is when a US car is coded for Headlight Washers and/or Wiper Pressure Control (APV), two features not present in US spec cars, which will prevent the car from sleeping when the relay confirmation signal doesn't make it back to the GM. (A similar software bug exists if you pull the 3 wiper relay in the E31, it'll prevent the car from sleeping, See the following for more info https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...-Bench-Testing)

    Anyway-- back to my question.. I've had success recoding modules back to US defaults using NCSExpert and the default coding keys in the fuse panel, but it doesn't update all fields. For instance, in several modules, the manufacture date is bogus, (the 54th month of 2044 in one module, which is obviously corrupted). Aside from the options coding, is there a way to recode other 'read-only' type features? Can that be done with NCSExpert/NCSDummy? I don't imagine the manufacture date would impact the behavior of the module, but I'm wondering if there is another field besides the default coding that is causing the firmware to act strange and keep the car(s) awake. Are the Serial EEPROMs in sectors? What if someone had to replace the serial EEPROM in a given module?

    Thanks!
    Last edited by EEDegreeToDrive; 11-18-2017 at 05:16 PM.

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  22. #847
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    Quote Originally Posted by EEDegreeToDrive View Post
    I've had success recoding modules back to US defaults using NCSExpert and the default coding keys in the fuse panel, but it doesn't update all fields. For instance, in several modules, the manufacture date is bogus, (the 54th month of 2044 in one module, which is obviously corrupted). Aside from the options coding, is there a way to recode other 'read-only' type features? Can that be done with NCSExpert/NCSDummy?
    I'm afraid, no. Simply put NCS Expert reads and writes to modules by sending commands to the microcontroller in the module. There's no direct communication with the EEPROM. The software on the microcontroller determines what is possible and what not. In the case of the E31 the manufacturing data is usually outside the accepted ranges for the NCS Expert write commands. For example for the E31 EKM the manufacturing data can be found in address range 0xF6 - 0xFB. By default NCS Expert does not read this range (it does read the bytes directly before and after) but it's possible to retrieve it with some trickery. However, writing is simply impossible. I even wrote a tool, completely bypassing Ediabas, but the microcontroller refuses to write bytes in that range.

    That does not mean it's impossible - I don't think the module manufacturers used pre-programmed EEPROMs - but we have no documentation or working examples that can be analyzed.

    So for now I would say an EEPROM programmer is the only way to modify the manufacturing data.

    I don't imagine the manufacture date would impact the behavior of the module, but I'm wondering if there is another field besides the default coding that is causing the firmware to act strange and keep the car(s) awake.
    I can't imagine the manufacturing data being used by the module for normal operation. It's just there for diagnostics.

    Are the Serial EEPROMs in sectors?
    I do not recall what type of EEPROM is in each programmable module of the E31, but they are usually very simple old school serial EEPROMs (ie 93C46). You do not have to worry about sectors or copy-protection in these (although there may be checksums in the data - for the EKM that is the case).

    What if someone had to replace the serial EEPROM in a given module?
    I don't think that's a scenario BMW ever considered. If the original EEPROM is corrupt and NCS Expert does not accept it, I think your best bet is to clone the EEPROM from a known good module, then recode it with NCS Expert to suit the vehicle (if necessary).

    PS: If you are using INPA to verify the manufacturing data, pay attention to the fact that there's a bug in the INPA data files for the E31 EKM module. It returns bogus data. DIS does not have this problem.

  23. #848
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    Bit confused.

    My M3 has factory fitted PDC and therefor is connected to the diagnostics line. My 328i has PDC retrofitted and this does not include hooking up the diagnostics wire, so INPA,DIS etc does not see it.

    INPA and DIS see the PDC of the M3 no problem. But it does not show in NCS Expert as a module after reading the VIN/GM. I also noticed there is no PDC daten file at all in the E36 daten folder, so I wonder if this is a module that can be programmed at all.

    Copying the PDC files from the E38/E39/E46 folder, just to test, when opening these in NCS Dummy, it shows coding options that have nothing to do with PDC.

    So in case anyone knows, is there anything at all that can be coded for E36 PDC module? The E36 PDC uses passive sensors, so I guess there is not much to code to begin with.

    But say you retrofit the E38 system with active sensors and you would like to code that module while fitted to an E36, would that even be possible?
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  24. #849
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    Quote Originally Posted by MParallel View Post
    INPA and DIS see the PDC of the M3 no problem. But it does not show in NCS Expert as a module after reading the VIN/GM. I also noticed there is no PDC daten file at all in the E36 daten folder, so I wonder if this is a module that can be programmed at all.
    Check if the module is in the ZCS info SA GM etc. If it is in the car and codeable but not in these numbers stored in dash and EWS then NCS cannot see it until you add it. Done this manually for OBC before now. Same will hold true for the other car regarding NCS even if you add the bus wires.

    As for the E38 PDC you would have to see how the option code went into the ZCS and probably mess around with definitions if at all possible or maybe benchflash it? Or if you enter a ZCS instead of reading, for the E38 then just choose and code? (never tried)
    Last edited by E36328Coupe; 11-27-2017 at 04:23 PM.
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  25. #850
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    My Cars
    German E36 328i & M3 cab
    It’s the other way around. I have factory PDC so it would be in the VIN/FA, but NCS expert does not see it, but there is also no Daten file for it, so it might be just as it should be.

    It does show up in INPA/DIS and can be fully diagnosed.
    '98 BMW M3 3.2 SMG Cabrio • Alpinweiß III auf Schwarz • Deutschland-ausführung

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