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Thread: NCS Dummy - Taking the expert out of NCS Expert

  1. #851
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    Quote Originally Posted by MParallel View Post
    It’s the other way around. I have factory PDC so it would be in the VIN/FA, but NCS expert does not see it, but there is also no Daten file for it, so it might be just as it should be.

    It does show up in INPA/DIS and can be fully diagnosed.
    I'd still read the SA. You can manually decode it. Non-coded options, such as sports wheel and other stuff are still represented in the GM and SA
    No warranty of any kind implied or given and no liability for any loss, damage or injury, no matter how incurred accepted.

  2. #852
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    Quote Originally Posted by E36328Coupe View Post
    I'd still read the SA. You can manually decode it. Non-coded options, such as sports wheel and other stuff are still represented in the GM and SA
    And even if that would be the case, and it reads the module, what about the fact there is no Daten file for it?
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  3. #853
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    Quote Originally Posted by MParallel View Post
    And even if that would be the case,
    It is the case
    Quote Originally Posted by MParallel View Post
    and it reads the module, what about the fact there is no Daten file for it?
    I said I would still read the SA, I didn't say it would get you anywhere but it may well help with your idea to try the E38 unit
    No warranty of any kind implied or given and no liability for any loss, damage or injury, no matter how incurred accepted.

  4. #854
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    I recalled video capturing my INPA "ID all modules" run from a while back. I did this as it shows the filenames of the .grp file it's part of (in EDIABAS\ECU). Because there are more modules that are in the car that can not be coded with NCS like DME, SMG and ABS module.

    What I found out is that what they all have in common is that their ID_COD_INDEX: is 0, all others are !0 and this number matches the coding index number of its respective file in de Daten folder.

    So when the PDC module is found, it also has a coding index of 0, which would also explain there is no daten file available for it. Which would confirm there is nothing to program.

    When copying the PDC_C01 and C03 files from E38 to E36, NCS Dummy will read them correctly (using the PDC files from E46 gives data that isn't even PDC related).

    And in the INPA ID run, the PDC module comes back as "D_0060: PDCE38".
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  5. #855
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    It sounds like no point even trying to add the E38 unit then
    No warranty of any kind implied or given and no liability for any loss, damage or injury, no matter how incurred accepted.

  6. #856
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    hello everyone i am new to this site and this is my first time posting in this forum. i just downloaded NCS dummy and trying to figure it out. one of the very first inputs it has/asks is what chassis i have (e60) but the next input thing it asks is module. how do i find out or figure out what module mine is? if this was already discussed can someone point me to the right direction. or what page of this topic it is in. BTW i have a 2006 BMW 530Xi wagon in case you guys wanna know or if that even matters when deciding what module i have. thanks in advance. i hope to learn alot from you guys.

  7. #857
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    Hey gang,
    I just registered to express my deepest THANK YOU!!! to revtor and all other creators and contributors of NCS Dummy, profiles, and all general info, “how-to” and “know-how”

    I have a 2004 E53, 3.0i with 6-speed manual that I am the first and only owner of, pushing 140k miles and recently lost vertical control and adaptive function of bi-xenons at the hands of, actually, a pretty competent shop. Somewhere between changing a throttle body, GM3 module and RLS sensor and reprogramming it all using Autel belonging to the shp, the lights stopped moving and adgusting with no erros being thrown from any modules.
    Got a laptop (CHEAP!!!) off ebay, preloaded with all Scan 1.4, NCS and INPA goodies and cables and went to work myself. Took a week to figure all this out and, voila, today got it all reprogrammed and restored back to former glory.

    Thank you again!
    Last edited by surfmonster; 03-01-2018 at 07:43 PM.

  8. #858
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    Hello
    I trying with some experiments to get default options from FA and found some collision in db coding files. If i'm not wrong the operator in options are '+' - &&, ',' - ||.
    If you look in E60,CAS3.C09 in option HK_GESPERRT_IN_GESICHERT options always evaluate to true. And some other more clear example is FBD_HKL_NUR_ER.
    I'm wrong or really the file is wrong?

    br
    harry

  9. #859
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    D4ni3lg: Please read the NCS Dummy user manual - especially chapter 6.

    Quote Originally Posted by harryzz View Post
    I trying with some experiments to get default options from FA and found some collision in db coding files. If i'm not wrong the operator in options are '+' - &&, ',' - ||.
    If you look in E60,CAS3.C09 in option HK_GESPERRT_IN_GESICHERT options always evaluate to true. And some other more clear example is FBD_HKL_NUR_ER.
    I'm wrong or really the file is wrong?
    That's really weird indeed but "E60CVT.000" really contains these illogical order options:

    GRUPPE : {"Codierung_CAS2"}
    AUFTRAGSAUSDRUCK : S0001,S0002,S0003,S0004 // E60,E61,E63,E64
    ...
    FSW_PSW : 1166 0008 // FBD_HKL_NUR_ER nicht_aktiv
    ...
    GRUPPE : {"Hk_gesperrt_in_gesi"}
    AUFTRAGSAUSDRUCK : S0020+!S0095+S0199+!S0204 // ENGLAND+!PASSIV_ACCESS+MAERZ06+!OEOE
    FSW_PSW : 1467 0007 // HK_GESPERRT_IN_GESICHERT aktiv
    AUFTRAGSAUSDRUCK : !(S0020+!S0095+S0199+!S0204) // !(ENGLAND+!PASSIV_ACCESS+MAERZ06+!OEOE)
    FSW_PSW : 1467 0008 // HK_GESPERRT_IN_GESICHERT nicht_aktiv
    ...
    INDIVID : {"HeckklappeoeffnetnurbeientriegeltemFzg"}
    AUFTRAGSAUSDRUCK : S0001,S0002,S0003,S0004 // E60,E61,E63,E64
    FSW_PSW : 1166 0007 // FBD_HKL_NUR_ER aktiv
    FSW_PSW : 1467 0007 // HK_GESPERRT_IN_GESICHERT aktiv
    AUFTRAGSAUSDRUCK : S0001,S0002,S0003,S0004 // E60,E61,E63,E64
    FSW_PSW : 1166 0008 // FBD_HKL_NUR_ER nicht_aktiv
    FSW_PSW : 1467 0008 // HK_GESPERRT_IN_GESICHERT nicht_aktiv


    Multiple entries with exactly the same order options but different values for the parameters. I'm not sure that's a bug in the CVT file or just me not completely understanding the CVT structure. I'm tempted to go with the latter:

    It seems there's additional information in the CVT file I had not noticed before. Some order options are in "GRUPPE" (group) categories, others in "INDIVID" (individual) categories. NCS Dummy merges "GRUPPE" and "INDIVID" order options to construct the display strings and that should not happen. My guess is that "GRUPPE" contains the order options for regular coding and is probably what should be displayed in NCS Dummy. But then how and when are the "INDIVID" order options used? "Individual" in the NCS Expert daten files usually refers to key customization (individual settings per key). Are these the defaults for keys? Is it okay we do not display these in NCS Dummy?

    Most of the "INDIVID" order options are straightforward:

    INDIVID : {"FensterheberBeifahrerTippbetaetigungAuf"}
    AUFTRAGSAUSDRUCK : S0001,S0002,S0003,S0004 // E60,E61,E63,E64
    FSW : 06F8 // FH_BEIFAHRERTUER_TIPP_AUF

    INDIVID : {"FensterheberFahrertuerTippbetaetigungAuf"}
    AUFTRAGSAUSDRUCK : S0001,S0002,S0003,S0004 // E60,E61,E63,E64
    FSW : 06F5 // FH_FAHRERTUER_TIPP_AUF

    INDIVID : {"Beiklappen_Komfortschliessen"}
    AUFTRAGSAUSDRUCK : S0091+!S0005 // SPIEGELPAKET+!US
    FSW : 0EC6 // BEIKLAPPEN_B_KOMFORTSCHL


    But the example you gave really puzzles me:

    INDIVID : {"HeckklappeoeffnetnurbeientriegeltemFzg"}
    AUFTRAGSAUSDRUCK : S0001,S0002,S0003,S0004 // E60,E61,E63,E64
    FSW_PSW : 1166 0007 // FBD_HKL_NUR_ER aktiv
    FSW_PSW : 1467 0007 // HK_GESPERRT_IN_GESICHERT aktiv
    AUFTRAGSAUSDRUCK : S0001,S0002,S0003,S0004 // E60,E61,E63,E64
    FSW_PSW : 1166 0008 // FBD_HKL_NUR_ER nicht_aktiv
    FSW_PSW : 1467 0008 // HK_GESPERRT_IN_GESICHERT nicht_aktiv


    That's twice the same order options in a single "INDIVID" category but with different values for the parameters. It's the only such case I could find in the E60 CVT (I have not yet checked other chassis). It just does not make any sense. This may be a bug in the file after all...

  10. #860
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    Hey guys. I'm new to everything and need some help with the download. Everything is good except I dont i didnt get C:\NCSEXPER\DATEN\ file with my zip. Any help is appreciated. Thanks

  11. #861
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    Quote Originally Posted by revtor View Post
    ...
    That's really weird indeed but "E60CVT.000" really contains these illogical order options:
    ...
    That's twice the same order options in a single "INDIVID" category but with different values for the parameters. It's the only such case I could find in the E60 CVT (I have not yet checked other chassis). It just does not make any sense. This may be a bug in the file after all...
    On my E65 (i.e. in CIM2.C04) somedays I changed the KOMFORT_EINSTIEG_... parameters and found similar doubles:

    1. in E65CVT.000:

    GRUPPE : {"Ausstattung_Lenksaeule_SZL"}
    AUFTRAGSAUSDRUCK : !(S005A,S003A+!S0003) // !(LSM,PU02+!E67)
    FSW_PSW : 0A6D 00E7 // LENKSAEULENVERSTELLUNG elektromechanisch
    FSW_PSW : 0A6E 000B // KOMFORT_EINSTIEG_HOEHE nicht_aktiv
    FSW_PSW : 0A6F 000B // KOMFORT_EINSTIEG_LAENGE nicht_aktiv
    AUFTRAGSAUSDRUCK : S005A,S003A+!S0003 // LSM,PU02+!E67
    FSW_PSW : 0A6D 00E8 // LENKSAEULENVERSTELLUNG elektrisch
    FSW_PSW : 0A6E 0007 // KOMFORT_EINSTIEG_HOEHE aktiv
    FSW_PSW : 0A6F 0007 // KOMFORT_EINSTIEG_LAENGE aktiv
    …
    INDIVID : {"Komforteinstieg"}
    AUFTRAGSAUSDRUCK : S005A // LSM
    FSW_PSW : 0A6E 0007 // KOMFORT_EINSTIEG_HOEHE aktiv
    FSW_PSW : 0A6F 0007 // KOMFORT_EINSTIEG_LAENGE aktiv
    AUFTRAGSAUSDRUCK : S005A // LSM
    FSW_PSW : 0A6E 000B // KOMFORT_EINSTIEG_HOEHE nicht_aktiv
    FSW_PSW : 0A6F 000B // KOMFORT_EINSTIEG_LAENGE nicht_aktiv

    2. In E65-CIM2.C04-ModuleFunctions.txt:

    KOMFORT_EINSTIEG_HOEHE 00300000 (01)
    aktiv 01 10
    LSM,PU02+!E67,LSM
    nicht_aktiv 00 00
    !(LSM,PU02+!E67),LSM
    KOMFORT_EINSTIEG_LAENGE 00300000 (01)
    aktiv 01 20
    LSM,PU02+!E67,LSM
    nicht_aktiv 00 00
    !(LSM,PU02+!E67),LSM

    The order option “LSM” is shown twice as alternative, and one of them stays always present for “aktiv” and “nicht_aktiv”.

    I think, it’s not a bug in CVT, but has to do with the INDIVIDUAL CAR-MEMORY, where you or the official dealer can change some functions. These CAR-MEMORY functions are listed in the CVT file as INDIVIDUAL – and you can find them as well in the file INDIVID.TRC in the WORK directory.
    What’s under GRUPPE, you can change each function with NCS.
    What’s under INDIVID you can change with CAR-MEMORY (or in CAR-KEY-MEMORY?), what often makes changes in more than 1 function.

    It's only 1 example, what I have found accidentally. Eventually that gives you a hint for searching the solution.
    But I never had problems with coding these functions or coding with empty *.MAN, therefor it’s only a theoretical question.

  12. #862
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    Hallo revtor,

    der Link fόr Ncs Dummy funktioniert leider nicht. Gibt es noch eine andere Mφglichkeit?

  13. #863
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    turbolag323: No DATEN files are included in the download. NCS Dummy is just a helper program. It requires NCS Expert to be installed (or at least its DATEN files) in order to work.

    dieze: The link is working fine. Please try again. Maybe there was a network glitch?

    Quote Originally Posted by montanus View Post
    In E65-CIM2.C04-ModuleFunctions.txt:

    KOMFORT_EINSTIEG_HOEHE 00300000 (01)
    aktiv 01 10
    LSM,PU02+!E67,LSM
    nicht_aktiv 00 00
    !(LSM,PU02+!E67),LSM
    KOMFORT_EINSTIEG_LAENGE 00300000 (01)
    aktiv 01 20
    LSM,PU02+!E67,LSM
    nicht_aktiv 00 00
    !(LSM,PU02+!E67),LSM
    Same issue indeed.

    NCS Dummy merges all order options (AUFTRAGSAUSDRUCK in the CVT file) for the same function/parameter combinations (FSW_PSW) to construct the string that is displayed in the application and exported files. It completely ignores the difference between GRUPPE and INDIVID categories which leads to these conflicting order options. This is clearly a bug in NCS Dummy itself. NCS Dummy should only use and display the order options from the GRUPPE category.

    I'm still confused about some of the INDIVID category entries, though:

    INDIVID : {"Komforteinstieg"}
    AUFTRAGSAUSDRUCK : S005A // LSM
    FSW_PSW : 0A6E 0007 // KOMFORT_EINSTIEG_HOEHE aktiv
    FSW_PSW : 0A6F 0007 // KOMFORT_EINSTIEG_LAENGE aktiv
    AUFTRAGSAUSDRUCK : S005A // LSM
    FSW_PSW : 0A6E 000B // KOMFORT_EINSTIEG_HOEHE nicht_aktiv
    FSW_PSW : 0A6F 000B // KOMFORT_EINSTIEG_LAENGE nicht_aktiv
    How would NCS Expert know which value to use - aktiv or nicht_aktiv - for the car/key memory of a vehicle equipped with LSM? Or should this be interpret like for a vehicle with LSM the car/key memory can accept both aktiv and nicht_aktiv? That seems rather unlikely because the majority of the INDIVID category entries have only a single value (and what's the point of individualization if you can't change the value).

  14. #864
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    Hello

    While digging in ciplib.dll After playing with some options there a lot of exported functions contains word "individ" i get for example individ options available (from cipbGetIndividFswPswFromFa function without car connected). If this make sense i attach fa.trc and individ.trc files.


    br
    harry
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by harryzz; 03-29-2018 at 03:44 AM.

  15. #865
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    My NCSDummy (under E65) don’t shows any INIVID function or parameter as separate line. Only in the Order Options sometimes I have double values, but without any effect.
    That’s ok so. I can change in NCSExpert or NSCDummy everything what’s listed in CVT under GRUPPE. Therefor I have no problem to code.
    If I use CAR/KEY-MEMORY, the correspondent parameters under GRUPPE are changed automatically - sometimes more than 1 function together (my E65: i.e 2 functions under KOMFORT_EINSTIEG_HOEHE or until 6 functions under TAGFAHRLICHT_ECE), what was helpful for me to find out, which different functions I should change manually.

    NCSexpert seems to filter out the individual functions for normal coding, different when special coding with CAR/KEY-MEMORY.

    Don't worry, it’s only a cosmetical problem, that NCSDummy shows double Order-Options in some INDIVIDUAL functions, because I don’t find any effect while coding.
    (attached my E65 INDIVID.TRC after coding)
    Attached Files Attached Files

  16. #866
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    Can I use NCS Dummy to recode my on-board monitor to factory defaults? It's the "BMBT" module in PA Soft, but it's apparently called something else in NCS Expert and I'm not sure which one it is.
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  17. #867
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    Hello again

    finally about INDIVID options: if there exist INDIVID options there must be 'AND' with GROUP options not 'OR' to be evaluated right by FA. (if no GROUP options, but exist INDIVID then will be evaluated always as false )

    br
    harry

  18. #868
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    Question.

    In NCS Dummy, not only does it show a 'ticked box' left of a selected parameter value, but also before the parameter itself.

    Now I was wondering if a paramenter that is not of an "active/not active" variant, can you disable a function completely by unticking the box at the parameter level?
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  19. #869
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    MParallel: No, you cannot disable features that way. Unticking at function-level only means these items will not be included in the FSW_PSW.MAN or NETTODAT.MAN files generated by NCS Dummy. Upon coding the 'missing' features are simply ignored and retain whatever value they previously had.

  20. #870
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    Ha seen. Was afraid so. Question came to mind after reading an old kombi file and noticed some functions having no ticked box at the highest level. Which made me think nothing was set. I didn’t do any changes to the file.
    1998 BMW M3 3.2 Cabrio • Alpinweiί III on Schwarz • German spec • 1 of 12
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  21. #871
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    Hi guys !

    I am trying to code my cluster on my BMW e38.
    But something is wrong :




    I think it's from here :



    And with NCS expert :



    I tried severals DATEN but it's the same.

    Someone has similiar issue and have found a solution ?

    Thanks.

  22. #872
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    Logicsystem360: The erroneous parameter is a known bug in all versions of the KMBI_E38.C12 module description file. Function "ACC_V_EFF_ANZ" has 6 parameters, "kennlinie_01" to "kennlinie_06", with a data length of 20 (14 hexadecimal) bytes. Parameter "kennlinie_02", however, has 21 bytes which is obviously invalid (its last byte would run into the next function). Another erroneous parameter can be found in the E60 "ARS.C0E" module description file where parameter "e70" of function "SCHENKEL_V" is also one byte longer than permitted. It appears the compiler BMW uses to build the module description files does not perform much syntax checking .

    Anyway, normally this should be nothing to worry about as long as you do not use function "ACC_V_EFF_ANZ" with parameter "kennlinie_02".

    If you are concerned the error may cause your problem, use NCS Dummy to disassemble the KMBI_E38.C12 to a text file, open it in a plain text editor, search for "ACC_V_EFF_ANZ", delete the first line containing "kennlinie_02" (PARZUWEISUNG_PSW1) and the next line (PARZUWEISUNG_PSW2), save and re-assemble with NCS Dummy overwriting the original file (make backups). See chapter 4.1.1 for more details on disassembly. Doing so will remove the faulty entry from the file and make it a proper valid module description file. It's best to restart NCS Dummy and NCS Expert after making changes to the file to make sure both (re)load the modified file. If the problem persists, it's not the module description file...

  23. #873
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    ^^
    Now that this is mentioned, would it be possible to change the "Length:" value in the Address line from Hex to Dec, when using the Hex/Dex switchover button? So the length shown under "Data:" matches the number of the Length in the "Address" line?

    Have another suggestion: when doing a search, for example "remote" in say a GM5.Cxx module. There are multiple parameter/functions that contain this word. By using "Find next" it steps to the next entry.

    How about only showing the matching parameters/functions in the main screen? (or in a new tab)

    And another suggestion.
    For smaller screens, there is a /smalldisplay command line parameter to make the bottom portion a few lines less.

    It would be handy to have a screen showing only the main screen (functions+parameters + the function/address/parameter/data/options screen)
    This could be on a 4th tab. This way you could switch between these 2 views, without messing with the original one.
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  24. #874
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    Quote Originally Posted by revtor View Post
    Logicsystem360: The erroneous parameter is a known bug in all versions of the KMBI_E38.C12 module description file. Function "ACC_V_EFF_ANZ" has 6 parameters, "kennlinie_01" to "kennlinie_06", with a data length of 20 (14 hexadecimal) bytes. Parameter "kennlinie_02", however, has 21 bytes which is obviously invalid (its last byte would run into the next function). Another erroneous parameter can be found in the E60 "ARS.C0E" module description file where parameter "e70" of function "SCHENKEL_V" is also one byte longer than permitted. It appears the compiler BMW uses to build the module description files does not perform much syntax checking .

    Anyway, normally this should be nothing to worry about as long as you do not use function "ACC_V_EFF_ANZ" with parameter "kennlinie_02".

    If you are concerned the error may cause your problem, use NCS Dummy to disassemble the KMBI_E38.C12 to a text file, open it in a plain text editor, search for "ACC_V_EFF_ANZ", delete the first line containing "kennlinie_02" (PARZUWEISUNG_PSW1) and the next line (PARZUWEISUNG_PSW2), save and re-assemble with NCS Dummy overwriting the original file (make backups). See chapter 4.1.1 for more details on disassembly. Doing so will remove the faulty entry from the file and make it a proper valid module description file. It's best to restart NCS Dummy and NCS Expert after making changes to the file to make sure both (re)load the modified file. If the problem persists, it's not the module description file...
    Thanks.
    I can't read the KMBI ECU with NCS Expert, I always have the error on the screenshot. Any ideas what's wrong ?

  25. #875
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logicsystem360 View Post
    Thanks.
    I can't read the KMBI ECU with NCS Expert, I always have the error on the screenshot. Any ideas what's wrong ?
    Okay I success to code with an older version of NCS Expert, don't ask me why ...
    If it's can help other people.

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