Self activating flashers

[shogun]

Self-activating flashers. An owner of a BMW may complain that the emergency flashers come on by themselves and can't be shut off with the flasher switch. BMW says this may be caused by a bum transistor in the crash control module, which you need to remove. It's a tall brown case stamped with the words "Crash-Alarm-Geber." Check the manufacturing date stamped on the side in white. The first digit of the code indicates the year ("3" means 1993). The second and third digits indicate the week of manufacture (for example, "08" means eighth week). If the unit was built before the eighth week of 1993, replace it. Use Part No. 61 35 1 384 761 for 318i, 318iS, 325i and 325iS models. Use Part No. 61351384732 for the 525i, 530i, 540i, 740i, 740iL, 750iL, 840Ci, 850Ci and 850CSi.

edit: latest part number as replacement for all is : 61358364692 730i (M30) 730i (M60) 730iL (M60) 735i (M30) 740i (M60) 740iL (M60) 750i (M70) 750iL (M70) 750iLS (M70) (S= armored version)

[ndz]

Good to know, thanks again Shogun e32 warrior.

I hit a tire tread on the interstate recently and it triggered the dome light and flashers. I believe it also unlocked the doors but can't remember. Fortunately there was no damage but at least the system works.

[shogun]

the good and the bad ones here
http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/b...peheat/010.jpg
http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/b...peheat/012.jpg

[shogun]

copied info of his questions + my comments to his problems:

My '89 E34 525i developed an alarm problem 4 years ago when the alarm horn was bipping intermittently whilst driving & it got worse over the next 2 years. During a routine dealer maintenance the car wouldn't idle unless (any) door was open. (Door pressure switches are original). Dealer finally suggested the front most module under the rear seat was faulty= GM. (This module operates the sunroof/electric windows etc. & all work perfectly).
Module was tested (independently)... "no prob". I eventually replaced it with another 2nd hand one & it went good for 2 years. Now the problem is worse, & as before, only when the car is at full operating temperature, so even after a few miles it starts to bip & the engine will cut momentarily. Whilst driving it beeps on & off & hazard lights flash... not good to drive around town... or anywhere.
ALSO, whilst still hot, & the car left parked (locked or unlocked), the alarm will suddenly go off. Opening any door/trunk will stop it, but it commences again as soon as the door is closed. Turning the key in the door lock several times will sometimes stop the alarm when the door is eventually opened. BUT SOMETIMES... the alarm will sound WHEN AN UNLOCKED DOOR IS OPENED!!! (Confused so far... yep, so am I). Otherwise, leaving a door/trunk opened until the car cools down seems to eventually stop the alarm from sounding, then it will sit for days without a murmur! Yesterday after a trip, whilst it was sounding... I removed the module & the alarm kept sounding! I've owned the car for 17 years, & there's no immobiliser that I know of. For further confusion, fitting the 'offending' module to another car it works perfectly!!! The dealer can't find a prob & 2 X INDEPENDENT AUTO ELECTRICIANS, DITTO.
Am I up for a new module? Or could it something else?
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crash alarm relay?
Just a shot into the dark: pull the crash alarm module in the fuse box and drive around and see what happens. The brown one, crash alarm geber is written on it, you cannot miss it
I had a problem that my hazzard lights came on by their own, it was also this relay. And read this

http://www.bimmerboard.com/forums/posts/410301/

operation of crash alarm

http://www.bimmerboard.com/forums/posts/641230/
copied from the net:
Self activating flashers
Self-activating flashers. An owner of a 1993 BMW may complain that the emergency flashers come on by themselves and can't be shut off with the flasher switch. BMW says this may be caused by a bum transistor in the crash control module, which you need to remove. It's a tall brown case stamped with the words "Crash-Alarm-Geber." Check the manufacturing date stamped on the side in white. The first digit of the code indicates the year ("3" means 1993). The second and third digits indicate the week of manufacture (for example, "08" means eighth week). If the unit was built before the eighth week of 1993, replace it. Use Part No. 61 35 1 384 761 for 318i, 318iS, 325i and 325iS models. Use Part No. 61 35 1 384 732 for the 525i, 530i, 540i, 740i, 740iL, 750iL, 840Ci, 850Ci and 850CSi.

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/b...peheat/010.jpg
http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/b...peheat/012.jpg
------------------------------------------------------------------

As I sit on my veranda with a cold beer, I raise the can & mutter, "Here's to the 'bimmerboard" before each sip!
Would indeed appear to be the relay. Before starting the car I removed the relay, looked at it & replaced it, & let the car idle for 20 minutes.... no prob so far. Went for a 50 mile drive... NOT a 'beep"! Returned home & removed it again & gave all 9 pins an emery rub & went for another drive. On return opened & closed all doors, locked & unlocked the car etc...

Now I write to say "THANKS, SHOGUN, you're a legend"!
Dirty contact could have been the problem but I'll replace the original one anyway.

What ever did "we" do in the 40's & 50's & before the internet. But cars weren't so complicated then either. Now I'm an "expert" on another piece of modern machinery! Confused no more.

P.S. It's actually the Alpina, but in '93 when it was officially converted from a 525i, many parts remained 525i. Quoting "Alpina" can sometimes confuse people about certain OEM items.
Jim

[Brian1965]

I just changed this relay and the problem with the hazards began. I am going to replace my old one as I was just being detail oriented. Just goes to show you that one should not "fix" what is not broken.

Thanks Shogun!

[Prospeeder]

uhg my car does this. rare and random i shut the door and the hazards go off and i have to turn the key on to make them stop, and also does it right when i hook the battery up also.

[shogun]

that could be the crash alarm/control module, if you have a chance, get a good one and replace it or repair the defective one.

[Rhythmatism]

mine also randomly does this, the way i turn it off is to turn hazards on and off again. works every time for me.

[shogun]

you can repair it as shown here
http://www.bimmerboard.com/forums/posts/410301/

You might need it one day: This relay pops all door locks open and shuts of the fuel pump in the event of an accident. Has an inertia switch that pops on impact.

Just checked realoem, looks like Crash Alarm Relais 61351384732 was only used till 09/1994 and replaced by new number Crash Alarm Relais 61358364691

BMW E34 E32 E36 328i 323is M3 Z3 Crash Alarm Relay CAG 61358364691
that one is no longer brown colour but black.
New around $65, if you are lucky you can find one <$50 new

[shogun]

How to temporarily by-pass the crash control module is shown here by demetek from the E34 forum, for testing if faults then disappear
crashmodulejumpers.jpg
Location: Main fuse box in the engine compartment

[shogun]

and another mystery story solved on the E34 forum, copied here: Stumped: Hazard lights come on with sunroof motor
I doubt anyone will respond to this....
About every other time I close the sunroof from the tilt up position, the hazard lights will come on as soon as the sunroof contacts the body.
I have been living with it for a few months now, it never did this before. It sucks because the hazard flashers will come on when I close the roof while, say, entering a freeway.
I have to press the hazards button twice to turn them off.
So far I have:
-removed the GM and RM, visually checked solder joints, checked for corrosion at connectors, reseated.
-Tried removing and re-inserting the crash control module while the hazards were flashing to see if it was the culprit. They remained on after I re-inserted it.
-Tried the same thing with the hazard flasher relay.
-Opened the sunroof switch to look for anything that stands out.
-Tried manually opening and closing the sunroof to replicate the problem, it doesn't, motor must run for hazards to come on with sunroof.
-Tried disconnecting the Inertia switch underneath the backseat, they still came on with the sunroof.

I remembered that if the battery voltage drops too low then the hazards come on. So I turned on as many consumers as possible, the hazards didn't come on. They ONLY come on with the sunroof switch moving to the closed position with the roof coming from the tilt up position.
If anybody has anything, and I mean ANYTHING! Dumb theory, stupid theory, something I overlooked whatever...please respond!
-----------------------------
Try a different crash control relay? My 88 735i would set off the hazards if I shut the door, turned off the car, just by themselves while driving, when I turn on the windshield wipers etc. That had the known older style one to begin with, so an updated version from a later car solved it for me. I know the year range and relay numbers are posted in here from Shogun somewhere.
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Sounds like the Crash Control relay part #61358364691. Make sure it's a black one. You can bypass the CC to test the theory of a bad CC.
-----------------------------------
Well, all of you guys hit the nail on the head! I tried demetek's bypass solution and sure enough the hazards no longer come on with the sunroof switch.
So something was telling the module to turn on the hazards and not turn them off unless the hazard switch was pressed twice. Not even unplugging the module itself would turn them off, the hazard switch must be pressed. I wanted to possibly see anything wrong with the module, so I popped it open. All is well as far as solder joints, varnish is there too. Capacitors are not leaking electrolytes.
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...4&d=1375932540
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...5&d=1375932564
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...6&d=1375932531
Looked at the crash control module's case and its an oldie:

26th week of 1988! so ~second week of June.
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...7&d=1375932836
I still don't understand how the sunroof has anything to do with the hazards though. They aren't even in the same circuit! This is why I didn't really suspect the module.

I'll find a newer one at the junkyard, for now its bypassed. I might try the capacitors(saw the DIY, shogun) if I have time just for giggles.

Thanks to everybody for the help!

[shogun]

update on part numbers: Part Cross-reference, up to date number 61358364692 Crash alarm relay From: 10/01/1994 To: - Weight:0.025 kg Price:$62.85
Supersedes: 61351384761 06/01/1987 — 02/06/1996 , Part 61358364692 was found on the following vehicles:
3' E36   (11/1989 — 08/2000)
5' E34   (03/1987 — 06/1996)
7' E32   (10/1985 — 04/1994)
8' E31   (07/1989 — 05/1999)
Z3 E36   (12/1994 — 06/2002)

[bayerischeNT]

Hey there, I am still having issues with my flashers staying on. Jumped the car ages ago, flashers went on and have been on since I took out the #6 fuse and they go off. Investigated more today and tried putting another brown relay in (same numbers on the relay but from a different car) and no luck. Tried pressing my hazards on and off, even disconnected the battery for a while and they still go on. Here is a picture of what I'm working with for relays. Is this "1 384 732" the bad guy?

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[shogun]

the black is called hazzard warning relay BMW: 1388533, 61361388533; ERA: 661148; Hella: 4DM009103011; Herth + Buss: 75605151 https://www.wehrle-electronics.com/e...n#!prettyPhoto
the brown one 1384732 is the bad guy usually.

61361388533 Hazard warning relay From: 09/01/1987 To:-
Supersedes: 61361388547(09/01/1987 — 12/29/2012),
Exchangeable retrospectively 61351392414 (09/01/1990 — 12/15/1992)
Part 61361388533 was found on the following vehicles:
•3' E36   (11/1989 — 08/2000)
•5' E34   (03/1987 — 06/1996)
•7' E32   (10/1985 — 04/1994)
•8' E31   (07/1989 — 05/1999)
•Z3 E36   (12/1994 — 06/2002

61351384732 Crash alarm relay From: 06/01/1987 To:05/30/1995 (ENDED)
Superseded by:
61358364691 (10/01/1994 — ), Exchangeable retrospectively
Part 61351384732 was found on the following vehicles:
•3' E36   (11/1989 — 10/1999)
•5' E34   (03/1987 — 06/1996)
•7' E32   (10/1985 — 04/1994)
•8' E31   (07/1989 — 10/1996)

Maybe the black and the brown one are same? Check it

Maybe you make a test by bridging as shown in post #10

[bayerischeNT]

Could be a worthy test to try! My battery isn't reading low so I am trying to check everything off the list of what it could be. Will get back to you after this jumper method is tried and we can go from there.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[shogun]

Any news after you tested it?

[shogun]

opened up crash alarm geber here, you can see all the components, click on the left the top link http://bmwe32.pagaduan.org/
http://www.bimmerboard.com/members/mino/img004.jpg
Emergency flashers blinking when opening door http://www.bimmerboard.com/forums/posts/410301/

[Sansouci]

This morning I went to check on the Garage Queen (my 19993 740il VIN DE84687) as I keep it on my Ctek charger. The flashers went on and futzing with the dashboard switch had no effect. Maybe I will try it multiple times. So to shut off the flasher, I pulled #6 fuse which did the trick.
So is it the crash relay or the hazard relay before I start "parts bingo?"
Thanks for any guidance.
--Ken

[shogun]

see my post #10 how to by pass the crash relay, if that works, then it is the crash relay

[Sansouci]

Shogun,
I'm going to do Demetek's by-pass test this morning and will report back. However, you reference two different crash control units: 61358364692 and 691. Realoem is confusing me as I put in my VIN (DE84687) and come up with 691 but the application is for 10/94 onward despite my build date of 12/92 and type code of GD83. The only other difference is reading the application list on Realoem is that 692 is for European cars and 691 is for US cars.
Stay tuned.
--Ken

[Sansouci]

Before I get under the hood, I did a parts search at RockAuto (Standard Motor Parts - RY990 - $77.79) and FCP Euro (Genuine BMW [whatever that means] $78 with free shipping.)
Inflation? Tariffs? rarity?

[shogun]

based on your VIN the relay was produced up to 09/1994 , 61351384732 NLA, replaced by 61358364691
here are 4 numbers listed with exchangable yes/no against .... http://bmwfans.info/parts-catalog/E3...lays#8364692_7
61351384761
61358364692
61351384732
61358364691

a bit confusing, I assume they are all interchangeable.

[youngbimmer]

Before I get under the hood, I did a parts search at RockAuto (Standard Motor Parts - RY990 - $77.79) and FCP Euro (Genuine BMW [whatever that means] $78 with free shipping.)
Inflation? Tariffs? rarity?

“Genuine BMW” means they are selling you a genuine BMW part. I’d go with FCP every time over rock auto

[Cactuar]

It depends, sometimes RockAuto is a better deal. For instance I ordered two Rein engine mounts from RockAuto, dirt cheap. When I opened the box I saw that the mounts were Genuine BMW but the supplier name had been scrubbed off.

[Sansouci]

So I did the demetek's bypass test and the flasher still flashed regardless of the interior switch position (on/off). My conclusion is that the Crash control module was not failing. So I pulled the Hazard Flasher Relay and reinstalled it (I guess the capacitors drained) and it operated normally. Next step: new flasher relay.

- - - Updated - - -

What I meant above is that it could be from any of BMW's OEM suppliers.

FIXED (i HOPE!)
I simply replaced the flasher with one made by Wherle p/n 61-36-1-388-533/206 NS 54 225 003 and all was quiet.

NOT FIXED!!
So I went to check on the car this morning and there was noise coming from the e-box and the right hand turn signals were flashing. It was the hazard flasher. Pulled it and the flashing stopped. Unlikely to be a new, bad hazard. So I'm going to start playing parts bingo with a new crash control module.