Chassis : E36 vs E46

[Brent 930]

Here is something for you guys to ponder, and possibly flame the hell out of me on.

If and when I trash my car (again) I'm going to swap my SC'd S52 motor/trans into an RX-8. Better suspension front and rear, stiffer chassis, and 100 lbs. lighter. Room to haul an extra set of wheels to the track too.

I actually don't even know if there is enough room in the RX-8 engine bay. Needless to say my venture ends with the E36.

[OnUrleft]

I'd like to say...

I'd prefer an E46 M3 track car if money were there

and I well have the whole S54 E36 M3 track car going right now. Fun but it'll be my rat soon.

[MasterKwan]

If and when I trash my car (again) I'm going to swap my SC'd S52 motor/trans into an RX-8. Better suspension front and rear, stiffer chassis, and 100 lbs. lighter. Room to haul an extra set of wheels to the track too.

You know, the motor is the only thing that kept me from getting an RX-8 (well that and the $35K prIce tag). I'm done with high revving torqueless beasts.

[Brent 930]

^Right, the motor is gutless and unreliable, same with the trans. The rest of the car is pretty good. A lot less stupid issues than the E36/46 has.

Finding a car with a blown motor or broken trans shouldn't be too hard and for cheap.

Anyhow I'm by passing the E46 since bang for buck the E36 is plenty good.

[SimTechDJ]

rx8 has that weird steering rack also. the rotary engine isn't unreliable at all, just prep it the way you would ANY engine you want to race. (oil, fuel, cooling...)

[Brent 930]

^You forgot about the flooding on a cold start. You can't turn the motor off until it warms up, stupid.

The motor IS unreliable. Gutless too.

[jmitro]

we just bought my 16 yo daughter an 06 RX8 Saturday. fun little car but the motor is fairly anemic. even revved up high it seems wimpy. with 40K miles and short drives though, the car should be reliable

[MasterKwan]

Christ, that's smart, buying a 16 year old a sports car. Hope she survives it. My kids first car was a Crown Vic. Big as a tank and not too fast. Once he got good enough not to crash it (he managed to hit some things in the first couple years), I bought him a Subaru Legacy using the Crown Vic as "cash for clunkers".

[tammer]

Christ, that's smart, buying a 16 year old a sports car. Hope she survives it. My kids first car was a Crown Vic. Big as a tank and not too fast. Once he got good enough not to crash it (he managed to hit some things in the first couple years), I bought him a Subaru Legacy using the Crown Vic as "cash for clunkers".

Christ, that's classy, criticizing people's parenting decisions online. Hope you survive it.

-tammer

[SimTechDJ]

anemic... sure, considering it is HALF the displacement of a 328is. the cold start flooding is a tuning issue, fixed with updated flash and plugs... stupid.

like i said, prep for what you want to do and it's a decent engine. is it perfect, NO, i will admit that but don't be afraid of it.

TALK ABOUT OFF TOPIC! :p

[MasterKwan]

Christ, that's classy, criticizing people's parenting decisions online. Hope you survive it.

That after I toned it down. 40,000+ people died in auto-accidents last year in the US. We can all pretend but, a 16 year old can't drive. Hell, my 19 year old can't really drive. You can see how they don't look up enough and are too easily distracted. My Guitar teachers kid just totalled one of their cars. Handing a newb a fast car is like handing them a gun. You just hope it's pointing the other way when it goes off.

You think it's a good idea Tammer? I drive my other kid to school every day. I see the Mustangs, BMW's and STI's in the parking lot and just wonder what the hell these parents are thinking. It's Darwin at work. The good ones will survive it, I guess.

Yeah, OT but the original topic has sort of played out.

[Serious]

That after I toned it down. 40,000+ people died in auto-accidents last year in the US. We can all pretend but, a 16 year old can't drive. Hell, my 19 year old can't really drive. You can see how they don't look up enough and are too easily distracted. My Guitar teachers kid just totalled one of their cars. Handing a newb a fast car is like handing them a gun. You just hope it's pointing the other way when it goes off.

You think it's a good idea Tammer? I drive my other kid to school every day. I see the Mustangs, BMW's and STI's in the parking lot and just wonder what the hell these parents are thinking. It's Darwin at work. The good ones will survive it, I guess.

Yeah, OT but the original topic has sort of played out.

kids are going to do stupid stuff no matter whether they are in a jetta, accord or an evo/sti to be honest.

But an rx8 isnt' really any faster than a jetta or modern accord, plus it has modern abs/stability control/airbags/crumple zones.

Personally I feel it's much safer to put them in a modern car with modern safety equipment rather than some huge boat with wooden brakes and yacht steering. Yeah they will be more safe if they hit anything, but with those crappy tires, brakes, and steering you're much more likely to hit something.

[gisqc]

Wow that went wayyy off-topic

Keep it on the chassis discussion guys!

[Spec3HOR]

Wow that went wayyy off-topic

Btw, not every kid sucks at driving or are plain stupid behind a wheel. I'm only 20 since a few and I've been driving a WRX (pretty much like a tuned STI now) and I don't crash car all the time either. Driving on the road isn't hard at all, and if you think it is... I prefer not to be near you!

Oh yeah, and I'm sure most young drivers who crashes and dies from speeding is because they try to do stuff with cars that can't handle it. A sport car IS easier to drive at any speed than a crappy one, my driving is alot safer then when I had my first POS that had blown shocks, worn tires and such.

Than again, I know how to control myself so I don't do stupid stuff that can be easily done with the power I have, roads just suck anyway!

Very interesting reading for the rest of the stuff, guess that E46 M3 is the one to get now that they got cheaper and E36 get even older. I wish I could easily sell that subaru I bought... just need to be patient and plan things well!

Id have to say I Agree and disagree with Master Kwan. I wouldnt put my kid in a POS per say. I think crown vics are death traps. But its also ridiculously stupid to put a kid in an sti or evo. I am 23 so im still within that age of doing stupid shit, and holy crap, if I was in an evo I would have stuffed it into a wall or something. Remember things in life are all about balance. A kid is much more likely to crash it, at least put him into something that he can handle enough to "learn" how to drive and be able to avoid incidents. A kid speeding going "all out" in a jetta will reach 100mph in forever, a kid in a evo/sti mustang? 140 in the same time. Simpy put, the faster it is, the faster they will put it into something and a nicer car also hides mistakes.

Remember how everyone goes to miatas and e30s and learns better instead of a c6 z06 on slicks? Yeah, same concept. Im going to get my kid a decent 10 year old vehicle that requires a small amount of work so they dont take the car for granted, but also can get them from point a to b and have a little fun.

[Greg S]

Is this the part where we start talking about Hitler? See Godwin's Law.

[jmitro]

deleted for lack of relevance.

someone close this thread. it's way off topic.

[nucci]

There are off-topic portions of this forum for sociopolitical or other egalitarian rants. Unfortunately this is not the off-topic area, so clean it up.

Thanks.

[jmitro]

all you had to do was not reply...

[BobWright]

.....this debate still raging ?

Give each car a knife and lets see who wins....my money is on the e36....more agile

[86montecarloguy]

^You forgot about the flooding on a cold start. You can't turn the motor off until it warms up, stupid.

The motor IS unreliable. Gutless too.

my rotary is more reliable than my 328is e36....not to mention quicker.

i never have cold start issues or starting issues of any kind, if anything just depress the gas peddle half way when you shut it off. plus my 13b is 184rwhp.

ive put 40k miles on it...the renesis has design flaws so dont doubt all rotaries

[Jmabarone]

ive put 40k miles on it...the renesis has design flaws so dont doubt all rotaries

the renesis can also last several seasons running in Formula Mazdas. IIRC, one car I worked on had done 2-3 seasons of SCCA without any issues, and was still competitive in Star Mazda events.

[lowside67]

Sorry to interrupt this bs about parenting, motor swaps, and rx8s to bring up some BMW related content but is there any reason that the ABS system in an E46 M3 is superior to that of an E36 M3? (Which I believe is the same as a late E36 328IS?)

[gisqc]

Sorry to interrupt this bs about parenting, motor swaps, and rx8s to bring up some BMW related content but is there any reason that the ABS system in an E46 M3 is superior to that of an E36 M3? (Which I believe is the same as a late E36 328IS?)

wow, thank you! people goes off-topic way to off!

And is there anyway to keep E46 ABS without the BMW ecu?

[BobWright]

I think Hitler had a large part in the e36 ABS design......or so I've heard.....

[FredK]

The S54 into E36 thing is becoming more common and less hard here in the EU actually.

I think we're on the verge of a paradigm shift here in the US. The S54 is going to become the LSx of the Chevy world--that is everything that has a roundel will have an S54 dropped into it.

The S50B32 was hard to come by stateside. The S54B32 is far easier to come by, and once teenagers start wrecking E46 M3s, and the valuation required to total an E46 M3 plummets, the S54 will become highly available and reasonably affordable.