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Thread: 2.9 M20 into the 323i

  1. #26
    Join Date
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    1979 323i BMW. 2003 GTI 20 V Turbo
    UPDATE:
    I have ordered the MILLER MAF and WAR CHIP...
    Called Ireland Engineering, they are going to extrude hone the 325i manifold...
    I found left over beads from the powdercoating in it..so this will work out perfectly...the extrude hone will get anything left over out... Ireland Engineering, has a custom program that they are going to send me. The way that the WAR chip works is that you can upload programs to it, as many as 4 tunes at once....

    Next up Jester will provide me with some urethane Motor and tranny mounts... and I have lots of stuff waiting like my DINAN powdercoated rear subframe..that are going to be used in this overhaul. 19lb injectors and 11 pound 325i flywheel are hanging around as well as a ZF steering rack...

    And I am ordering a South Bend Clutch with Kelvar, and at some point new tires Bridgestone Potenza 195 50 15s for the front 7.5 BBS RMs...so they are going to go on the car and out of my closet. LOL...

    I will post pics of the swap. Engine out and new one going in. Jethot gives me a two week turn around...

    I am thinking about March time frame for it.
    I will be saving the original fuel system and engine, but as of now its never going to be stock again...maybe I should do this with my old one:


    Stay tuned this build is gonna get fun, and deliver




    PS: For those who did not know the Epic back story of my car:
    My stock 2.3 m20 has a rebuilt head but blows oil at HIGH rpms and sat for 15 years at the body shop and was never run. The body shop was a joke and lost parts and never finished the car..It was neglected and by some miracle I got it running. Its long overdue for a complete overhaul. And since you can not stroke the 2.3 that great, I went one step more and just going to toss the towel in on it and the fuel system.....
    Last edited by jjgbmw323; 02-13-2011 at 11:31 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
    "..Horsepower is a measure of work done over time, or the rate at which work is done."




    http://www.cardomain.com/ride/579694/1


  2. #27
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    UPDATE:
    I have dropped the 2.9 Engine over at the shop that is gonna install it.
    I picked it up this weekend from the machine shop and brought it down to the shop that will be working on putting it in.

    It weighs about 400 pounds and my cousin and I where able to take it out of the truck on the pallet with out any major drama. But its heavy.

    So I have to get my urethane parts from Jester, Order a South Bend Clutch, and some new front tires for the BBS RMs. In just a few weeks, the swap will commence. I will update with pics...

    And I have been driving the MK2 VR6...the power is so addicting....
    as my freind told me: Once you feel the power you will want more: Hello
    Supercharger....
    "..Horsepower is a measure of work done over time, or the rate at which work is done."




    http://www.cardomain.com/ride/579694/1


  3. #28
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    HOLY UPDATES BATMAN:
    Engine is out...sending headers out to be cermaic coated....






    Have to figure out if the new engine works with the old 323i subframe....
    Last edited by jjgbmw323; 06-16-2011 at 08:53 PM.
    "..Horsepower is a measure of work done over time, or the rate at which work is done."




    http://www.cardomain.com/ride/579694/1


  4. #29
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    bimmers and more
    Wooohooo!!!
    BUY YOUR KLUB VINTAGE WINDOW DECALS!
    http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=265552

    Klub Vintage - Classic and specialty car builds and restorations

    http://www.klubvintage.com

    Located in Lambertville NJ


  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by metalsoul View Post
    Wooohooo!!!
    Yes. Thanks! I am going to see if I can put the fuse box somewhere else, repaint the engine bay where the original paint is, and relocate the battery relocation kit wire to underneath the car rather than inside.

    I am getting the headers recoated, and ordering a short shift kit from Bav Auto
    and then its installation time!!!!

    Have all sorts of parts to get rid of. Anybody want a 2.3 engine..I will let it go for dirt cheap!
    "..Horsepower is a measure of work done over time, or the rate at which work is done."




    http://www.cardomain.com/ride/579694/1


  6. #31
    Join Date
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    1980 323i Alpina
    Man, this sounds exciting! I need to drive down and see this in person.
    1980 323i w/ Alpina C1 Kit
    2006 K1200GT

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by n0madic View Post
    Man, this sounds exciting! I need to drive down and see this in person.
    I am starting to get excited, the engine build was a black hole for a few years for me....

    When its finished we will get together. Right now the old engine is out on it, so its not too exciting, when I start running the built 2.9/3.0 liter M20 with Miller 3.0 maf and Miller War chip, and start ripping threw the gears its gonna be.

    My BBS RMs are gonna be installed as well.

    Engine recap: Hartge E30 red powdercoated valve cover:
    Hand ported 325i Manifold
    Competition Port and Polish 885 BMW 325i head
    Reground Stage 2 274 cam
    Ferrara plus 1 stainless steel valves
    Metric Mechanic Behive valve springs and custom retainers
    Custom Steel Rocker arms - cyroed

    Bottom end: Bored 1 mm over - with custom forged weisco pistons
    S50 Connecting rods, S50 crank. 86 mm crank, 86 mm bore.
    524 td Oil PUMP, ARP bolts
    11 pound 325i lightend flywheel, with South Bend Stage 2 ceramic clutch
    19 Mustang injectors
    3.0 Miller MAF, 325i ecu with MILLER WAR CHIP
    Ansa -Jet hot coated sterling silver Headers
    Dogleg tranny, ZF SPORT steering rack.
    Jesters urethane bushings everywhere.
    BBS RMs 7.5 -195 50 15s front, 8s rear 205 50 15 rear
    Custom Rear BMP rear Brace and battery relocation kit
    Last edited by jjgbmw323; 06-18-2011 at 09:26 AM.
    "..Horsepower is a measure of work done over time, or the rate at which work is done."




    http://www.cardomain.com/ride/579694/1


  8. #33
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    Wow, serious specs!

    If you need photos of the routing for the underbody battery cable let me know.

    Motronic M20B25 E21 Legion Page

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by BaronOfIpanema View Post
    Wow, serious specs!

    If you need photos of the routing for the underbody battery cable let me know.

    I do, I'm planning on running the E30 cable tonight or tomorrow sometime and don't really want to pull apart the interior again.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tom D View Post
    throttle lift oversteer is a way of life and should be celebrated. there are few things as much fun as steering a car through a corner with the throttle.
    He who dies with the most unfinished projects wins



  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by BaronOfIpanema View Post
    Wow, serious specs!

    If you need photos of the routing for the underbody battery cable let me know.
    Post them up. The only thing I dont like is the fact you have to make a hole somewhere to get it to go under.
    "..Horsepower is a measure of work done over time, or the rate at which work is done."




    http://www.cardomain.com/ride/579694/1


  11. #36
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    OK - apologies for taking so long but it's not every weekend that I can get back to her...

    Here's the grommet in the trunk:



    And from the bottom:



    And running back - first along the passenger side rocker panel then turning inboard to hit the frame rail. Think it's attached to the fuel return line (if I recall correctly):





    Then it goes under the frame rail and up the firewall - note wrapping for protection:





    From above the firewall:


    Motronic M20B25 E21 Legion Page

  12. #37
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    1979 323i BMW. 2003 GTI 20 V Turbo
    Yes.BaronOfIpanema thanks for the pics.I am going to do something similar and relocated the cable under the car rather then threw the firewall.

    And now a Update:
    Back from the powdercoaters done in crinkle black....



    Back from Jethot Redone in sterling silver:


    I also did the down pipes...I am waiting on a new steering part, and the short shift kit from Bav Auto...after that we have to start on putting the ZF steering rack in, and repainting then it will almost be ready for the swapage!
    "..Horsepower is a measure of work done over time, or the rate at which work is done."




    http://www.cardomain.com/ride/579694/1


  13. #38
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    plastic zip tie on thermal wrap next to the manifold could be a weak link. did you consider ss ties?

  14. #39
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    Oh Man,You just may be ready for BimmerFest East....
    Keep it up. A couple of "all nighters" and you're there.
    I still drive daily with no commute...
    The Hazard is All, Praise the Hazard!



  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by gsumzzz View Post
    plastic zip tie on thermal wrap next to the manifold could be a weak link. did you consider ss ties?
    Have not re-routed the battery cable yet, but it will be hidden similar to that of the picture....
    not sure what to use...

    Quote Originally Posted by midlifebmw
    Oh Man,You just may be ready for BimmerFest East....
    Keep it up. A couple of "all nighters" and you're there.
    Really not sure, as I dont know if the car will be dialed in or not. Bimmerfest is cutting it close as much as I want to go... Plus I need more security that i have with it...have to redo the alarm on it as well.
    Last edited by jjgbmw323; 07-10-2011 at 12:39 AM.
    "..Horsepower is a measure of work done over time, or the rate at which work is done."




    http://www.cardomain.com/ride/579694/1


  16. #41
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    Bimmerfest is a no go- but I dropped off a whole collection of parts today, including paint, ZF rack, Cermaic coated headers, new steering knuckle, and powdercoated motor arms...

    Its gonna happen soon, wont be to long now -gonna remove the fuse box and drop the engine in...
    Last edited by jjgbmw323; 07-27-2011 at 07:14 PM.
    "..Horsepower is a measure of work done over time, or the rate at which work is done."




    http://www.cardomain.com/ride/579694/1


  17. #42
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    Okay Joe, I have to ask... why are you putting your fusebox in the glove box? I do have some accessory fuse buses in mine for my modern stereo & such, but relocating the entire thing seems way excessive.

    Where are you going to put your DME?
    e21: 1981 2.5L sleeper
    e21: 1982 323i Baur TC 1 # 4210
    e21: 1980 323i project or parts car, can't decide
    e21: track car project
    e46: 325XiT

    click here for the latest updates

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jester323 View Post
    Okay Joe, I have to ask... why are you putting your fusebox in the glove box? I do have some accessory fuse buses in mine for my modern stereo & such, but relocating the entire thing seems way excessive.

    Where are you going to put your DME?
    I am trying to clean up the engine bay - and I am putting the ECU in the glove compartment as well
    "..Horsepower is a measure of work done over time, or the rate at which work is done."




    http://www.cardomain.com/ride/579694/1


  19. #44
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    1979 323i BMW. 2003 GTI 20 V Turbo
    UPDATE:
    Have been busy sanding down the casting ridges on the 325i manifold. I have one side done and starting on the other side...

    Car is looking the same: No Engine or tranny! I now Have an extra Set of 323i wires that are the blue performance ones for sale, and well as a box of parts all from the 323i engine including starter and fuel distib and WUR.

    We are pushing to finish the car in the next week or so, to make Bav auto and I have not decided if removing the insulation on the firewall is a good idea or not...


    Will update with completed pics soon. Its getting closer!
    Meantime I have a set of performance 323i wires, 323i flywheel, 323i fuel distributor, 323i oil pan all for sale, or looking for a new home.....
    Last edited by jjgbmw323; 08-23-2011 at 07:19 AM.
    "..Horsepower is a measure of work done over time, or the rate at which work is done."




    http://www.cardomain.com/ride/579694/1


  20. #45
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    What is the purpose of the 524td oil pump you are using?

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by LJ851 View Post
    What is the purpose of the 524td oil pump you are using?
    Its a long story - the back story of my engine woes goes on for many years, and I am the laughing stock of this forum as I had to scrap my first configuration and do everything over again. My original configuration was a 2.8 liter stroker that I got from Tyler at Bav Auto with custom pistons, 325i I rods, and 81 mm eta crank. Tyler had bored the stock block out and built this 2.8 m20.
    The plan was too swap the eta crank with the 81mm 524 turbo diesel crank that I got knife edged. I had found a 524td at the wreckers and got the block and had the 524td crank removed. Despite Tyler's assurances and 1k later we opened the 2.8 m20 engine up to find dreaded piston slapage...the whole engine was JUNK!

    So I went the long way around sold all my 2.8 components including the 524td crank and went bigger with a 3.0 liter build. I then completely did every thing over including a competition port and polish and ferrara plus 1 valves in the head. I used an 86mm S50 crank with S50 rods, ARP bolts, and Custom wiesco pistons based up the 2.8 stroker that had a Metric Mechanic design with reliefs cut in them. The block has just slightly over a 86 mm bore, and you could even build a 3.1 liter m20 but that reguires even bigger S52 crank and custom rods...

    When I talked to Tyler about his build...he was running the 524td oil pump, so I went and did the same...its supposedly a better pump than the stock m20 one...

    I am going to get then engine in the car shortly and will be running a MILLER WAR CHIP and MAF to ring out the full potential of the 3.0 m20 engine, and with the War Chip the sky is the limit I will be running version 2.0 of the war software.

    My engine is basically what Metric Mechanic calls a Rally Sport 3.0 stroker, and I have added a few special touches like race steel rocker arms that have been cyroed and plus 1 valves, and it has RL competition port and polish and Delta Cam Stage 2 regrind, so I not using Jim's surface turbulence in the head... I did not like Metric Mechanics price of 10K. I am also using ARP head studs, and I of course had the crank and the rods magnafluxed, and the crank micropolished and the engine balanced.
    Last edited by jjgbmw323; 08-23-2011 at 09:14 PM.
    "..Horsepower is a measure of work done over time, or the rate at which work is done."




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  22. #47
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    Jim, after reading this I'm wondering if you may have had a knee-jerk reaction to your piston slap issue? Piston slap is caused by excessive piston to wall clearance, which can be caused by a machine shop mismatching the piston to the bore, or assembling it with the wrong piston in the wrong bore. What do you think caused your issue, or were there more issues? Couldn't you just order some custom pistons and re-bore?

    I think that you were just ITCHING for an excuse to build a monster M20 that snaps your neck back

    Get the damn thing in the car! I can't wait to hear sound bites of the exhaust note

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by waferman View Post
    Joe, after reading this I'm wondering if you may have had a knee-jerk reaction to your piston slap issue? Piston slap is caused by excessive piston to wall clearance, which can be caused by a machine shop mismatching the piston to the bore, or assembling it with the wrong piston in the wrong bore. What do you think caused your issue, or were there more issues? Couldn't you just order some custom pistons and re-bore?

    I think that you were just ITCHING for an excuse to build a monster M20 that snaps your neck back

    Get the damn thing in the car! I can't wait to hear sound bites of the exhaust note
    Nah...the piston slapage was real, trust me, my old pistons had metal shavings on the sides and the whole engine was a POS. It was not wishfull thinking, I took Tylers word for it, when he told me that the 1k I was spending was worth it, and his 2.8 m20 was legit. I did not want to spend the money on a fresh engine but its done now...
    My 524 td crank - that was knife edged...

    My old 2.8 pistons that had shavings - you cant really tell but they are damaged on the sides

    S50 rod vs M20 325i rod...



    And I edited your post...my name is Joe...thanks...you will hear the exhaust note soon my friend...and let me address your questions:

    According to Leo - master Machinist at R&L, the engine was toast.
    The pistons slaped on the sides of the block and metal shavings got in there and effected the engine..not sure the why as Tyler stated everything was fine. He did track time in his car around lime rock and this engine was a 2.8 stroker which was a strong performer. And if I had to order new custom pistons, which I did, that's the point when you threw in the towel and do the job correctly. New Pistons that are forged from Wiesco and custom made cost a lot in the M20 due to the fact its a Six cylinder. When we built the new engine we rebored it slightly from the last bore to get everything straight, but I have been advised to not go to massive on the bore -86 mm in the block is good enough....
    Last edited by jjgbmw323; 08-23-2011 at 11:26 PM.
    "..Horsepower is a measure of work done over time, or the rate at which work is done."




    http://www.cardomain.com/ride/579694/1


  24. #49
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    Quite excited to see this done! You owe the forum smouldering 11's up the road
    "The most important thing is balance." - KT

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big John View Post
    Quite excited to see this done! You owe the forum smouldering 11's up the road
    Thank you, and I am very excited as well, hopefully it all works out with no drama. I talked to Kevin about making some videos, his car has a american engine in it, and Chris has a M10 turbo, so we will see if we can get VTBIMMER to run with us and who ever else...I promise we will put together some for the legion.

    And yeah, the BBS RMs are gonna be displayed and put in motion, I can not really bring the car on the track. But its gonna be nice to have an engine that does not burn oil and gasp its last breath in high rpms, like my old one...
    Last edited by jjgbmw323; 08-23-2011 at 11:44 PM.
    "..Horsepower is a measure of work done over time, or the rate at which work is done."




    http://www.cardomain.com/ride/579694/1


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