My DIS/INPA/SSS/CARSOFT/NAVCODER Interface.

[vince59]

Drew - from what you describe here and in the PM you sent, should be no prob to ressurect that cable with the tools I have at hand - although have to see to really be sure, I'm pretty confident as long as you haven't lost any components or burned them up from overheating or torn up any traces.

In addition to what vince (mmmmmm booooooobzzzzz.... ) said above, what helps me do this kind of stuff are...

• practice
• various kinds of magnifying lamp and/or glasses
• a variety of good work clamps (I have 2 Panavices plus an old skool soldering work holder and then a PCB hot-air rework holder thingy) that hold the piece in the right spot and hopefully help you have a way to brace your hand to keep it steady unless you have magic steady hands
• more practice
• OK and I confess - and the ultimate DEFCON 1 secret weapons: vacuum pump desoldering rework tool and hot air rework station, in addition to a basic half-decent temp controlled soldering iron

I def did some "SMD" (surface mount device) work w/ plain irons before I got more gear but dayum once you have some solder paste and the hot air rig it gets WAY easier not to F things up!!!! Sure I could fix your prob by hand w/ an iron and braid or an old school solder-sucker but screw that fussy sh1t... For instance where you bridged a bunch of pins, I can hot air heat that stuff up then just suck all the excess solder back off with the vacuum and then touch it up later w/ solder paste if it even needs it (might not). It's probably a couple minute fix.

Here's a shot of my 2 electronic benches... a bit older pics, there's more gear now, for instance the hot air stuff isn't in these pics... yes I have a gear problem... there's also another a closet full of shit, a floor full of hifi "projects" waiting to be fixed and that doesn't count the tube guitar amps... Crap I got TOO MANY HOBBIES....

come on we do not have to scare people with this impressive pics...

we are talking about 5 or six joint...only porblem is to use the sharp point in the solder and low watt not to detach and overheat the chips...for the rest if you want to take off the alloy from the joined pin I use the very very old trick of using the external core of the coaxial tvcable and soldering paste. It works ALWAYS but you have to practice...

[MSWPOWER]

dear friend....if you read and do not understand it is your limit and not other members....

Dear friend,

jumping in kinda half ass aren't you...
no where in this thread, prior to kevins post, does it state to connect pin 17 to 2 and 20 to 2.
that solved my INPA problem right away along with shorting pin 1 and 16 on the OBD cable.

SSS is still not connecting in spite of Carsoft & INPA fully working now.
guess i gotta install SSS from scratch but thanks Kev! you the man!
happy fathers day to you and all others on the site.

[KevinMullins]

Glad to have been of some help, because I went through the same struggles getting any sort of communication going on my cars.

Figured I'd add some more tidbits for these older cars....

The "cap" on the 20 pin connector has internal pins that are tied together when the cap is on. Biggest problem with using strictly the OBD port (aside from no ignition signal) is that there is no direct tie between pin 20 and anything in the OBD port. With the cap on you can access some modules because 17 and 2 are tied together.
Hence my quicky wire up scenario for those without a 20 pin cable adapter.



Pin 15 of the VAGCOM OBD cable is there, but there is no pin 15 wired IN THE CAR's OBD port. Otherwise the OBD port would work without extra jumpering.

I also wanted to emphasize differences in some of the 20 pin connectors under the hood (bonnet).

2000 E39 528i


1999 E36 323is


It was mentioned earlier in this thread somewhere that if you have pin 15 inside this 20 pin connector then you must use an ADS interface......
But what you need to do is, if you have pin 15 populated, is to check to see if it is "live". Measure the DC voltage on that pin, if it has about 11v or so.....THEN you must use an ADS interface. If it is dead... zero volts....well, then you don't and should be able to access all modules as described already.

Anyway, it's nice to see forums that share information like this and I hope I can only add to the help and not to the confusion for someone else.

Having worked on many different kinds of vehicles I knew to look at the OBD port itself before pulling my hair out. A lot of cars (especially foreign cars) are not fully populated. Beings this is a US thing, most just populated the bare essentials to get by import requirements. Of course the newer the car, the better luck you will have with scanner compatibility.

Oh, and I recall reading somewhere that only an older version of Carsoft works with some of these VAGCOM cables. (like v6.1.4 or something) I haven't gotten that far, so I can't say for certain as all I have needed so far is INPA and NCS Expert to do what I needed. What version of Carsoft do you guys use?

Nice tidy work on the soldering Kev, I'd just glob some hot glue on those floating leads to keep them from shorting - in my post from ages ago you''ll see I also slipped heatshrink over the NPN leads, although copious hotglue would do the job there too.

Thanks man.....I've done my fair share of soldering teeny stuff. I plan to secure everything once I'm done fiddling with it.

This is interesting. I have no 20-pin car and new to the BMW diag thing too so interesting to see this. Seems like a nice workaround to the adapter, now you can just use OBD in the car like the later models right? I imagine someone could get a 20-pin male connector and even fabricate some jumper plugs if you wanted a slicker solution although this looks to work fine...

Yeah, my whole point of that was to show one quick way around these if you have a 20 pin diagnostic port, but DON'T have a 20 pin adapter cable handy. Seems like a lot of people buy the VAG-COM type cables and then struggle trying to figure out why it doesn't work on the slightly older cars.
I think they did away with the 20 pin diagnostic port under the hood late 2000 or 2001 or something. So most of the newer cars are more capable through the standard OBD port now. (with less modification and such)
I have thought about nabbing a spare 20 pin "cap" and modifying it for a clean plug in jumper adapter. But I have a 20 pin harness, so I really don't "need" to do any of this myself. Just figured the info might help get someone else started. I'm sure there's a dozen ways someone could come up with doing it versus just some stripped wires, but that's something everyone usually has laying around.

[MSWPOWER]

yeah, i used the existing 20 pin cap and reiterated the jump sequense on it and it works flawlessly; ill post a pic when i go home this weekend but basically i took the connector out of the cap,connected a trace with solder and cut the other trace and voalla.. i will test pin 15 to see if it's live or not; i have a 98, 740i which is a E38. it's killing me that my DIS install
keeps freezing after i enter the password and setup info.

[KevinMullins]

yeah, i used the existing 20 pin cap and reiterated the jump sequense on it and it works flawlessly; ill post a pic when i go home this weekend but basically i took the connector out of the cap,connected a trace with solder and cut the other trace and voalla..

I would definitely like to see that "cap adapter" you did.

i will test pin 15 to see if it's live or not; i have a 98, 740i which is a E38.

You might find that you can't access things like the KOMBI and ASC/ABS modules without an ADS type interface. There's a couple modules on my '99 E36 that give me fits, but can work with about 90% of it without any troubles.

it's killing me that my DIS install
keeps freezing after i enter the password and setup info.

Shoooot.... I haven't even begun to figure out DIS/GT1 or any of that yet. I think my old laptop HDD is too small anyways, not enough space for all the virtual machine stuff.

[IcemanBHE]

97 E38 is OBDII. Not ADS.

[KevinMullins]

97 E38 is OBDII. Not ADS.

Which pins are populated on your OBD connector in the car ? (under the dash)
Do you have the 20 pin under the hood?

OBD II is known to be able to read fault codes and such to a degree, but it usually does not have access to ALL the modules.

[IcemanBHE]

I mean that using a OBDII/INPA 20 pin interface works just fine on E38s.

You can only see the DME and EGS under the dash, just like the rest of the OBDII cars using that port.

[KevinMullins]

I mean that using a OBDII/INPA 20 pin interface works just fine on E38s.

You can only see the DME and EGS under the dash, just like the rest of the OBDII cars using that port.

Ah... gotcha.... I'll agree with that then, if you are saying you can access the ABS and such with just the OBD-->20 pin port.

I was just curious about not being ADS since you were talking about a '97.

[IcemanBHE]

Yea...Anything after 1995, but the E36/46, Z3/4 can use a OBD-20 pin until about 2002.

Anything older than 1995 (thats OBDI) and the models above, must use an ADS...to have full functionality.

[MSWPOWER]

hey Kev,

are there any other pins i can jump to have more access to the modules?

Iceman,

are you familiar with DIS installation trouble shooting?
it keeps freezing on me..

[TerraPhantm]

Yea...Anything after 1995, but the E36/46, Z3/4 can use a OBD-20 pin until about 2002.

Anything older than 1995 (thats OBDI) and the models above, must use an ADS...to have full functionality.

E46s work fine with the OBD to 20-pin adapter. I think it's just the E36 that requires the ADS (and the Z3 it basically is an E36)

[KevinMullins]

hey Kev,
are there any other pins i can jump to have more access to the modules?

Not that I'm aware of.

2-17-20 are K-Line Diagnostic (2 really just goes to the OBD port under the dash)
15 is L-Line Diagnostic /ADS (but don't jump it to the others if it has voltage)
14 is constant battery power
16 is the true "Ignition On" (12v) which is good if you have a properly wired adapter
7 is for clearing oil and inspection service (ground it for 3-5 seconds to clear oil service light, 10-12 for service inspection lights)
19 is ground

The others you will probably never need. A few I don't have a clue what they are yet as I haven't found a diagram showing them.

Keep in mind there may be modules listed in the software that you simply do not have.
Is there something specific you were having trouble getting into?

[MSWPOWER]

Not that I'm aware of.

2-17-20 are K-Line Diagnostic (2 really just goes to the OBD port under the dash)
15 is L-Line Diagnostic /ADS (but don't jump it to the others if it has voltage)
14 is constant battery power
16 is the true "Ignition On" (12v) which is good if you have a properly wired adapter
7 is for clearing oil and inspection service (ground it for 3-5 seconds to clear oil service light, 10-12 for service inspection lights)
19 is ground

The others you will probably never need. A few I don't have a clue what they are yet as I haven't found a diagram showing them.

Keep in mind there may be modules listed in the software that you simply do not have.
Is there something specific you were having trouble getting into?

well some modules i get an initial error when i select it in INPA but after the error it shows me options for that selection, but my real concern is to get DIS up and running so i can change/code some features in my cars operations. i havent researched NCS expert but from what i understand DIS v44 encompasses advanced diagnostics and coding so i just want to get it up and running. but, am i right in concluding that if there's no power in pin 15, i can go ahead in tie it in to 17 & 20? i dont have my tester with me so i can check to see if it has voltage so that will have to wait till i get home to the garage.

[KevinMullins]

well some modules i get an initial error when i select it in INPA but after the error it shows me options for that selection

Like a "wrong versions" error ?
I get that on one or two modules, but have still been able to do what I needed to anyway.

but my real concern is to get DIS up and running so i can change/code some features in my cars operations. i havent researched NCS expert but from what i understand DIS v44 encompasses advanced diagnostics and coding so i just want to get it up and running.

I have only used NCS for a little bit of coding. Definitely read up on ANY instructions first, it's a little confusing at first.
I haven't gotten DIS running yet, but my understanding is it will do most, if not all the same coding stuff as NCS but is more "user friendly".

but, am i right in concluding that if there's no power in pin 15, i can go ahead in tie it in to 17 & 20? i dont have my tester with me so i can check to see if it has voltage so that will have to wait till i get home to the garage.

Honestly, I'm not sure what pin 15 would have access to / connected to if it doesn't have voltage. So I'm not even sure if it used at all in that scenario. I wouldn't jumper it to anything until I knew for certain.

[IcemanBHE]

So...back to the thread topic..

[MSWPOWER]

didn't think we went off topic but ok...
i'll post the pics and test the pin this weekend.

[IcemanBHE]

My bad...I was thinking this was a different thread. Carry on.

[vince59]

Does anybody have any feedback form connecting interface ELM327 type to BMW and relevant software like INPA, GT!1 or progman?

I have several IFs but I am missing d-can connection on cheap USB VAG KKL IFs...so I am going to buy the next one (BMW INPA approx cost 70 USD) but I do have an ELM327 (DCAN capable) that I am currently and efficently using with other brands...so I was wondering if they work with BWM software.

Did anybody experiment that?

[MSWPOWER]

ok, so hears the 20 pin cap mod.
you need to dig out the 4 black peaces of plastic that keep the circuit board in the cover.

[Orphee]

Is there a way to make the cable an ads interface by soldering the pin 15 somewhere in the cable ? Thank you

[MSWPOWER]

well i cant get DIS to install so i have to use INPA and NCS.
using NCS takes some getting use to but once you know the protocol it's like riding a bike.
coded a few modules in the car with ease.

[robtheviking]

Does anybody have any feedback form connecting interface ELM327 type to BMW and relevant software like INPA, GT!1 or progman?

I have several IFs but I am missing d-can connection on cheap USB VAG KKL IFs...so I am going to buy the next one (BMW INPA approx cost 70 USD) but I do have an ELM327 (DCAN capable) that I am currently and efficently using with other brands...so I was wondering if they work with BWM software.

Did anybody experiment that?

I'm pretty sure that the 327 hardware does not work with INPS/SSS/GT1 etc.

Someone asked this a few months ago iirc.

[Thuppu]

5# For the software mod, you will need this driver "CDM 4.2.1916 WHQL certified" , so unpack it, connect the cable, and install all with this driver.

Is this driver ok? I'll get a FTLang.dll error of it... I have a RL chip like on this poteroa's pic. I have programmed it like in the first post of this thread.

I/O Settings!!??
m.Prog program does not have a "poweron" in dropdown menu, only "PWRON#" for C2.
Is this "POWERON" only a "glitch" in guide? =)
My chip is the RL-one.

Really good tutorial, pictures could be better. I got a TxFiFo problem when I started INPA 5.02 (txFIFO value=14, expected 8) Got that fixed by updatin OBD.ini file and that com port has to be Com1 no other, just won´t work, well on my laptop it doesn´t. (IFH-0027 error, Api init error).

For all you that have the FTDI 232RL chip. If you want to use the real battery/ign detection, you have to revert the DI#/DSR# with m-prog back to default, otherwise the black dots will still stay black even if the cable is not connected.
So leave other setting as they were in this tutorial, but take the taps of from DI# and DSR# and flash the chip.


How to connected the resistor/transistor mod see the included picture.

Bridge RI# to GND pin with solder (Pins 6<->7), the pin 9 is soldered to the BC546 leg with 4.7Kohm resistor. Remember! It wont work if the DI# DSR# is inverted on the chips software!

[Thuppu]

Tried to download it again and install it from start. Now all works great.