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Thread: LSx E36 Wiring

  1. #101
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    Great writeup!

    I used most of Pzary's wiring notes when I did mine (thanks again for letting me mooch Paul) and even with those theres still slight differences in harnesses.

    Glad to see more writeups like this coming out!

  2. #102
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    I've got a question regarding the wiring of the E36 to LSx, hopefully someone can answer. I've been so busy with the swap and have only skimmed through the wiring info here on the board and it's just something I've been putting off and at this point I'm not even sure where to start.
    Question is, Am I basically going to be making one harness out of the two? S50 & LS1? Reason I ask is the way things are going, my motor and trans will be in the car before I even start the wiring. From what i've gathered it looks like the two harnesses are "meshed" and connect only to the engine, X20 & PCM. Help me remove the big elephant from the room.
    1988 911 - Carb'd - Twin Plug - 3.6
    1999 SL 500
    2016 4Runner TEP - Gone
    1995 M3 - LS2 - Gone
    1998 M3 - Gone
    1991 M5 - Gone
    1993 RS America - Gone
    1995 M3 - Gone

  3. #103
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    #1) Correct one harness made out of the S50 and LS1 harness.

    #2) KEEP YOUR DIAGNOSTIC PORT! DO NOT CUT IT!

    #3) Wire the motor out of the car to save a lot of hassle. I hate wiring in the car... Also I would lay out everything in the way you think it should go, then make your junctions in the black box from your S50 harness.

    #4) Correct PCM, X20, and Diagnostic Port.

    There are a lot of ways to skin a cat.. Choose which one works for you.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pzary3233 View Post
    #1) Correct one harness made out of the S50 and LS1 harness.

    #2) KEEP YOUR DIAGNOSTIC PORT! DO NOT CUT IT!

    #3) Wire the motor out of the car to save a lot of hassle. I hate wiring in the car... Also I would lay out everything in the way you think it should go, then make your junctions in the black box from your S50 harness.

    #4) Correct PCM, X20, and Diagnostic Port.

    There are a lot of ways to skin a cat.. Choose which one works for you.
    That helps, thanks.

    Also it's obvious that any circuit on the BMW that goes to any sensor on the BMW engine can go correct? I think using that as a starting point will get a shit ton of wiring out of my way.
    Last edited by GG Allin; 04-17-2012 at 09:32 AM.
    1988 911 - Carb'd - Twin Plug - 3.6
    1999 SL 500
    2016 4Runner TEP - Gone
    1995 M3 - LS2 - Gone
    1998 M3 - Gone
    1991 M5 - Gone
    1993 RS America - Gone
    1995 M3 - Gone

  5. #105
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    Keep a few of those sensors... ie the temp sensor and the oil pressure sensor to keep your gauges working...


  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pzary3233 View Post
    Keep a few of those sensors... ie the temp sensor and the oil pressure sensor to keep your gauges working...

    Just read through the thread again, second of many times to come, thanks good info here. Question though, is it the OBD2 BMW temp sensor that threads directly in to the LS1 head? And from what I gather, there is a question to whether or not the OBD1 gauges will get an accurate read from that sensor?
    1988 911 - Carb'd - Twin Plug - 3.6
    1999 SL 500
    2016 4Runner TEP - Gone
    1995 M3 - LS2 - Gone
    1998 M3 - Gone
    1991 M5 - Gone
    1993 RS America - Gone
    1995 M3 - Gone

  7. #107
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    Yes OBDII sensor, and YES the OBDI cluster will be just fine. I swapped an OBDI cluster in my car to make sure.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pzary3233 View Post
    Yes OBDII sensor, and YES the OBDI cluster will be just fine. I swapped an OBDI cluster in my car to make sure.
    I really appreciate your help. Last night I started eliminating circuits from the BMW harness, coils & fuel injectors are gone. I've also identified and tagged most of the X20 wires. I've tagged and numbered 4 here that I can probably also eliminate. Could you or anyone else confirm and or identify them. 1 & 2 branch off from the group that go to the X20. And below is a close up of #4. I want to be careful not to cut out the two mentioned above, temp & oil pressure. The big mess in the middle are the ones that will be tough. I've got a printed out copy of the ETM that I'm trying to get familiar with. and I'll have the two sensors soon, hopefully there is only one plug that will fit each. The big white square is only covering the diagnostic port, I screwed up while editing the picture.
    Last edited by GG Allin; 10-22-2012 at 03:01 PM.
    1988 911 - Carb'd - Twin Plug - 3.6
    1999 SL 500
    2016 4Runner TEP - Gone
    1995 M3 - LS2 - Gone
    1998 M3 - Gone
    1991 M5 - Gone
    1993 RS America - Gone
    1995 M3 - Gone

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbrouder View Post
    I really appreciate your help. Last night I started eliminating circuits from the BMW harness, coils & fuel injectors are gone. I've also identified and tagged most of the X20 wires. I've tagged and numbered 4 here that I can probably also eliminate. Could you or anyone else confirm and or identify them. 1 & 2 branch off from the group that go to the X20. And below is a close up of #4. I want to be careful not to cut out the two mentioned above, temp & oil pressure. The big mess in the middle are the ones that will be tough. I've got a printed out copy of the ETM that I'm trying to get familiar with. and I'll have the two sensors soon, hopefully there is only one plug that will fit each. The big white square is only covering the diagnostic port, I screwed up while editing the picture.


    So couple things here-

    Wires I would keep -

    1. Diagnostic port
    2. Anything coming off the X20 (for now until you use the wires you need and then you can prune this even more)
    3. Any and all relays intact (ie the 3 relays you have should be fuel pump, main relay, and a/c if you plan on keeping a/c)
    4. Oil Pressure- only keep this if you plan on using the oil dummy light in the e36, and then be prepared to get all wacky with the adapter as the hole in the LS block is much larger than the BMW oil pressure switch (mine leaked so i pulled it out). Additionally All the oil pressure switch in the bmw cluster does is say "yo dawg your oil is low or your pressure is low" <-- both of which alone pretty much tell you nothing as its no kind of specific. I Bought an actual calibrated metered autometer oil pressure gauge.
    5. Water temp- Assuming you bought the correct coolant temp sensor you're gonna have to cut off of the bmw plug anyway to make it work and direct 2 wire it.

    Pretty much cut out the rest of the BMW harness. Keep anything X20, all relays, and main power/ grounds.

    Ill shoot you a pm with some wiring docs later if Pzary hasnt already.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by lovnbmws View Post
    Thought this would be an appropriate place to link my Google DOC's spread sheet documenting the pin outs and wire connections for my swap. For reference purposes my car is a 99 e36 323is automatic. The engine is an LS1 from a 2002 Trans Am with T56 manual. Please let me know if you see any mistakes or have clarification to add and I will update the file. Happy wiring!

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...2JyUFFVaVdWS3c
    FYI I found a small error in my notes pertaining to the OBD II signal connection from the ECU tot he diagnostic link. Its fixed now but I wanted to make people aware in case anyone has downloaded the file and plans on using the information.
    Last edited by lovnbmws; 05-12-2012 at 01:21 PM.

  11. #111
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    Hey guys, I just read through this whole thread and it's been super helpful so far. I'm currently in the process of mashing the two harnesses together after redoing the whole GM harness.

    Here are some things that i've learned from looking at and simplifying the BMW harness:

    - x20 pin 10 - reverse light switch - when the chassis side is fed +12V, it will turn on the BMW reverse lights
    - x20 pin 23 - oil pressure idiot light in gauge cluster - when the chassis side is grounded, it will turn on the light on the gauge cluster
    - x20 pin 25 - alternator charge problem light - when the chassis side is grounded, it will turn on the light on the gauge cluster
    - you'll need a relay that give battery +12V to power x20 pin 13 - fuel pump

    Here are some questions i had:

    1) where do i ground the block, heads, and PCM? Where are recommended places?

    2) How do i attach the GM harness to the GM starter?

    3) Does the GM PCM control the fan speed through the use of relays?

    4) Why does the x20 connect pins 10 and pin 22 together through a transmission connector?

    5) What does x20 pin 15 do? Does anyone have a better description?

    6) what gives the GM starter the signal to start? does the signal come from one of the pins in the 3 chassis connectors?

    7) lastly, why is it that all of the bosch type relay wiring diagrams that i've found on the internet different from the ones that are posted in this thread? Every wiring diagram that i've found for these types of relays are exactly like how garretvs says to do it and not like how BMW does it or GM does it.


    Quote Originally Posted by garretvs View Post
    On most 5-pin relays, the numbers are the same, no matter what manufacturer and are as follows

    30: +battery or other incoming power
    87: a "normally open" contact that connects to pin30 when the relay is energized
    87a: a "normally closed" contact that dis-connects from pin30 when the relay is energized
    85: +voltage incoming control signal from a user-operated switch or the PCM or other power source
    86: a ground for power coming from 85, which allows the control coil in the relay to energize; some are direct to ground or the PCM provides ground

  12. #112
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    1) Block and heads, any available bolt boss, be sure to buff the flat surface for a good electrical connection and coat it with electrical grease before and after connection is made to maintain good electrical connection over time, (reduce corrosion). PCM, use pins labeled as GRND for ground, tying them into the car body, engine block/heads, etc. If you bring all the PCM grounds into one wire, be sure it is sized at least the same size or larger as the combined power supply to the PCM.

    2) I didn't. I connected my starter just as BMW had it, retains the EWS-II functionality and also the inability to engage the starer once the engine is running etc.

    3) Yes, fan is to be controlled through a relay, power for the fan/s through the relay should have its own over current protection, (fused).

    4) (I'll look into this later).

    5) (I'll look into this later).

    6) Yes.

    7) Sorry I am not familiar with this or recall running into this.

    **********AUTOMERGE*********

    4) My notes and ETM show X20 pin #22 comes from fuse #26, is hot in "Run" and "Start" mode, powers reverse lights through reverse switch on trans, (X20 pin 10), it also splices and runs to pin #16 in the DLC as hot +12v. I used it for power for my GM cruise, reverse light and reverse lock out solenoid on the T56. Here is a basic schematic for the reverse lights;


    5) X20 pin #15 goes to the starter motor, big terminal of the starter that only is energized when the starter is engaged, It is some sort of signal wire to the body control module, most likely is part of the functionality of the EWS-II and what the body control module uses to prevent the starter from engaging once the engine is already running. You may not need this wire depending on how you wire up your starter, can't say for sure though. I connected it to the GM starter just as it was to the BMW starter, my starter control/functionality is just as it was when the OE M3 engine was in the car.

    Hope that helps,
    Paul
    Last edited by BRAAP; 07-15-2012 at 05:19 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

    '97 Sedan, Cosmos Meconium, Click ME for the build thread.

  13. #113
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    2) So correct me if i'm wrong, but there should be two things going to the starter: a really thick gauge red wire coming off of the BMW battery post (power distribution block thing); and a thinner wire coming from a relay which is triggered by one of the pins in the x20 connector?

    3) I'm not quite getting what's going on with the fan switch and how it's controlled. i think i'll just wire up a separate relay in dummy mode that is triggered by the key being in the second position. I think it'd just be easier that way to have the fan always running whenever the key is in the second position.

    4) It took me a while to read your super simple diagram, but i finally did it. So your diagram is saying that when the t56 is physically shifted into reverse, it closes a switch which closes the circuit allowing the 12v source to energize the backup bulb which is triggered on by a 12V+ (since the lights on the other end are already grounded). Therefore, what you're saying is that I'm missing a pigtail that plugs into the trans--one wire from the connector will plug into the x20 pin #22 (which comes from fuse #26), and the other will be plugged into x20 pin #10. This connection will be entirely stand alone from the BMW harness, and the GM harness, kind of like how the BMW coolant temp sensor is (to make the dash gauge coolant temp show a reading).

    5) and 6) Braap, what do you mean by, "I connected it to the GM starter just as it was to the BMW starter, my starter control/functionality is just as it was when the OE M3 engine was in the car"?

    Correct me if i'm wrong, but i'll take a wild guess that there are only 4 connections to the GM starter. The first is a big thick gauge red wire that connects the BMW battery post +12V in the engine bay to the starter. The second is the signal coming from the ignition inside of the car through x20 pin #18. this tells the starter to engine the solenoid (which is acting like a big relay) and giving the starter the juice it needs to start the engine. The third connection wire goes from the starter to x20 pin #15 which, like you said, tells the BMW BCM that the engine is in the process of starting. This third connection is optional, but highly recommended, right? And the last connection is a ground for the starter.

    do i need a relay wired up to pin #18?

    NEW QUESTIONS:

    8) x20 pin #21 and x20 pin #22 are both hot when key is in the run/start position. one will be connected to a relay (pin #21) and the other will be used for reverse (pin #22)?


    I'm really sorry that i'm coming across as an electrical idiot. I've never had formal training in any of this stuff and this is clearly my first hybrid swap. You guys have been tremendously helpful and extremely patient with dumbasses like me.

    Quote Originally Posted by BRAAP View Post
    2) I didn't. I connected my starter just as BMW had it, retains the EWS-II functionality and also the inability to engage the starer once the engine is running etc.

    3) Yes, fan is to be controlled through a relay, power for the fan/s through the relay should have its own over current protection, (fused).

    4) My notes and ETM show X20 pin #22 comes from fuse #26, is hot in "Run" and "Start" mode, powers reverse lights through reverse switch on trans, (X20 pin 10), it also splices and runs to pin #16 in the DLC as hot +12v. I used it for power for my GM cruise, reverse light and reverse lock out solenoid on the T56. Here is a basic schematic for the reverse lights;


    5) X20 pin #15 goes to the starter motor, big terminal of the starter that only is energized when the starter is engaged, It is some sort of signal wire to the body control module, most likely is part of the functionality of the EWS-II and what the body control module uses to prevent the starter from engaging once the engine is already running. You may not need this wire depending on how you wire up your starter, can't say for sure though. I connected it to the GM starter just as it was to the BMW starter, my starter control/functionality is just as it was when the OE M3 engine was in the car.

    6) Yes.

    7) Sorry I am not familiar with this or recall running into this.

    Hope that helps,
    Paul
    2) How do i attach the GM harness to the GM starter?

    3) Does the GM PCM control the fan speed through the use of relays?

    4) Why does the x20 connect pins 10 and pin 22 together through a transmission connector?

    5) What does x20 pin 15 do? Does anyone have a better description?

    6) what gives the GM starter the signal to start? does the signal come from one of the pins in the 3 chassis connectors?

    7) lastly, why is it that all of the bosch type relay wiring diagrams that i've found on the internet different from the ones that are posted in this thread? Every wiring diagram that i've found for these types of relays are exactly like how garretvs says to do it and not like how BMW does it or GM does it.

  14. #114
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    I'll try to get some diagrams/pics posted tonight.

    '97 Sedan, Cosmos Meconium, Click ME for the build thread.

  15. #115
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    Hey guys,

    a few questions:

    I'm trying to figure out fuses. Did you guys use separate fuses for the PCM/sensors, the coils, and the injector power?

    these are my relays right now and this is what I have...

    The GM harness already has 3 relays installed:
    - fuel pump
    - fan 1
    - fan 2

    I'm adding a few relays onto what I already have. This is going to be my main setup:
    - one relay to turn on the other 5 relays triggered by either x20 pin #21 (ignition run/start power for BMW coils) (green) or x20 pin #22 (ignition run/start power for reverse lights) (green/white)
    - one relay for the GM PCM and sensors
    - one relay to power the ignition coils
    - one relay to power the injectors
    the x20 pin #13 (to power the fuel pump), does it go to an inline fuse in the fuse box before going to the fuel pump leads?

    is this how you guys set it up?
    Last edited by asinapple8805; 07-21-2012 at 06:26 PM.

  16. #116
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    Here is the rough draft of the BMW under hood connectors, X20 (applies to all E36), X6031, (OBD-II stuffs), X-69, (ASC for those equipped).




    The ETM is invaluable, though as most have found, it lacks one set of critical pinouts/diagram, the under hood connectors. These are the connectors that us swappers are most interested in. Here is the very rough draft of the '96-'99 E36 X20, X6031, and X69 connectors. A year or so ago I did take the time to trace out each and every one of these for each individual year and model from '92-'99, there are only a couple pinouts that are different for the earlier cars, as memory serves, only one really mattered to us, but it was fairly obvious when scanning the ETM's.




    If deleting ASC, delete X69 all together.




    This wiring schedule will be refined as I get time including list and graphical representation of key PCM tie-ins to the BMW electrical system., (’99-’02 PCMs). I have most of it already, just need to combine in an orderly manner and post.


    More to come as I get time, hope this helps,
    Paul
    Last edited by BRAAP; 08-03-2012 at 11:27 PM.

    '97 Sedan, Cosmos Meconium, Click ME for the build thread.

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pzary3233 View Post
    Integration of the two harnesses

    Integration Web


    Integration PDF

    Got a question regarding the integration. Pin 9 from the Red PCM plug is a DrkGrn/Wht wire, "Fuel Pump Relay Control". On the BMW side I have the Brown/Green wire that goes to the Fuel Pump Relay.

    Okay, I've identified both of those wires. What does it mean "To Pin 4 - swap pins 4 & 6"? What is this refering to? It's not a simple as connecting Pin 9, Red PCM to Brown/Green Fuel Pump Relay wire?


    Last edited by GG Allin; 10-15-2012 at 01:01 PM.
    1988 911 - Carb'd - Twin Plug - 3.6
    1999 SL 500
    2016 4Runner TEP - Gone
    1995 M3 - LS2 - Gone
    1998 M3 - Gone
    1991 M5 - Gone
    1993 RS America - Gone
    1995 M3 - Gone

  18. #118
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    for some reason, i think i remember one of the bmw relays being triggered by a switch on the ground side, and not a switch on the trigger side.

    i ended up rewiring all of my main relays anyway.

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by asinapple8805 View Post
    for some reason, i think i remember one of the bmw relays being triggered by a switch on the ground side, and not a switch on the trigger side.

    i ended up rewiring all of my main relays anyway.
    Yeah, I read an old post of yours somewhere. Been doing a lot of reading today. Thursday night we plan on doing all of the wiring, I have help. I've got 99% sorted out in my head, just a little confused by that relay. I've also read in a few places that it's a good idea to fuse the power supply to the PCM. Wondering what amp fuse to use and also wheather or not to fuse all power supplies, keyed and constant.
    Last edited by GG Allin; 10-15-2012 at 06:30 PM.
    1988 911 - Carb'd - Twin Plug - 3.6
    1999 SL 500
    2016 4Runner TEP - Gone
    1995 M3 - LS2 - Gone
    1998 M3 - Gone
    1991 M5 - Gone
    1993 RS America - Gone
    1995 M3 - Gone

  20. #120
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    Sorry, just bumping for easy access. I'm trying to hammer out my cooling fan. Wired up the relay but the fan is not kicking on.
    1988 911 - Carb'd - Twin Plug - 3.6
    1999 SL 500
    2016 4Runner TEP - Gone
    1995 M3 - LS2 - Gone
    1998 M3 - Gone
    1991 M5 - Gone
    1993 RS America - Gone
    1995 M3 - Gone

  21. #121
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    Check with your tuner for which pin they used for the cooling fan trigger. There are a few different ones to use.

  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pzary3233 View Post
    Check with your tuner for which pin they used for the cooling fan trigger. There are a few different ones to use.
    I just posted in another thread specific to cooling fans, didn't see this, thanks.
    1988 911 - Carb'd - Twin Plug - 3.6
    1999 SL 500
    2016 4Runner TEP - Gone
    1995 M3 - LS2 - Gone
    1998 M3 - Gone
    1991 M5 - Gone
    1993 RS America - Gone
    1995 M3 - Gone

  23. #123
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    Does anyone know what the name of the connector here is? Is this something Radioshack would carry? I pulled this from where a relay plugs in.

    Last edited by GG Allin; 06-01-2013 at 08:05 PM.
    1988 911 - Carb'd - Twin Plug - 3.6
    1999 SL 500
    2016 4Runner TEP - Gone
    1995 M3 - LS2 - Gone
    1998 M3 - Gone
    1991 M5 - Gone
    1993 RS America - Gone
    1995 M3 - Gone

  24. #124
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    Look up double leaf spring contact in realoem.com group 61 / electrical
    2006 X5 L83 5.3 6l80 swapped in progress
    1999 528i 5.7L 4l60e swapped w/ 31 spline 8.8 cobra diff
    2007 ZX-10r - sold
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  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by modular93fox View Post
    Look up double leaf spring contact in realoem.com group 61 / electrical
    Very helpful. I'm leaning towards #6. it says 4-6mm. I believe #5 is NLA.

    1988 911 - Carb'd - Twin Plug - 3.6
    1999 SL 500
    2016 4Runner TEP - Gone
    1995 M3 - LS2 - Gone
    1998 M3 - Gone
    1991 M5 - Gone
    1993 RS America - Gone
    1995 M3 - Gone

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