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Thread: LSx E36 Wiring

  1. #76
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    John,

    Unfortunately the pcms had a different chip set and programming. There is one ecu that has both dbw and cable throttle. Came out in 02 or 03 in chevy trucks and vans. Mind you, not all of them... I've only ever had one. Maybe the truck pcm would work and have can bus capabilities? But I do not know for sure.

    Paul

    Also late 06 they started with the 58x reluctor wheels that require a converter or a pulling of the crank.
    Last edited by Pzary3233; 03-01-2011 at 08:12 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  2. #77
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    a lot of the time when an aftermarket reader of any kind says "can bus" or related it actually means the single wire k-line communication as well - very few systems that I have seen work exclusively on can bus as CAN is inherently universal but also not at the same time - different manufacturers use different addressing schemes and what not - similar to k-line systems but hte k-line systems followed more of a defacto standard then what i've seen in the CAN bus systems.

    if it says "OBDII" or similar it will likely work on k-line as well as CAN bus.

  3. #78
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    Good info to know!

    John which data aquisition set up were you looking into?

  4. #79
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    John, not sure what exactly you are looking for in engine data logging, but have you seen this? http://www.scantool.net

    I got their most basic kit for use with car pc that I still haven't started yet and I believe they have data logging as well. I think there is also a separate GM specific add-on too.

    Might not be everything you look for, but its cheap enough to try compare to adopting 06 pcm.
    - 96 328is 6.0L. (LS1 to LS2 build thread: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...ad.php?2098938)
    - 96 328is 5.7L. (LS1 build thread: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1289987)
    - 95 ///M3 6.0L. (LS2 build thread: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1619249)

    - 97 ///M3. (e46 Fender Flares/track car build thread: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1727098)
    - 96 328is (Dual Fuel Pump to Surge Tank thread: http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...ad.php?1964025)

  5. #80
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    He's lookingfor a race car data aquisition system. Real time data aquisition with gps data plotting etc.

  6. #81
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    Paul described it best. I'm looking to integrate rpm, temps, pressure, TPS etc with track mapping and Gps data to evaluate where I could do better on track and reduce lap times.

    Aim Pista or Racepak type hardware. I'll try to find a link to some of the stuff that can logged shortly.

    Great info so far though. Just learned more in these few posts than I thought.

    John.

    An example:



    John
    Last edited by Maynor; 03-01-2011 at 09:50 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
    John
    E36 LS3

  7. #82
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    Changing the computer to the version you want is going to be a lot less fun than you might imagine. The biggest problem is that the new computer (usually called an E38) is for a 58x reluctor wheel and you have a 24x reluctor wheel. You can buy a converter, but that just adds another layer of complexity.
    Rob
    Prior projects:
    1998 540i with 6.6 LS2/T56 Chevy Power
    - pictures and details
    1992 325i with 6.6 LS2/T56 Chevy power - pictures and details
    1995 M3 with 6.6 LS2/T56 Chevy power - pictures and details




  8. #83
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    Totally forgot about the reluctor differences. At this point, its prob. Easier to wire in duplicate sensors to feed the logger. Thanks all.
    John
    E36 LS3

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by rao View Post
    Changing the computer to the version you want is going to be a lot less fun than you might imagine. The biggest problem is that the new computer (usually called an E38) is for a 58x reluctor wheel and you have a 24x reluctor wheel. You can buy a converter, but that just adds another layer of complexity.
    Rao, Correct me if I am wrong.... the converters do not go from 24x to 58x, but the other way around to convert to Cable Throttle.

    John,

    Here is some more info on getting the Racepac stuff to work with the LSx swap.

    http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=16833

    I know it's geared towards older muscle cars but the principles are the same.
    http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/show...46&postcount=9
    This post pretty much sums up what I was afraid of, but seems like the easiest route to go.

    Their online community seems helpful as well:
    http://www.racepak.com/forums/

    As a side note, take a look at this Silver State Classic and One Lap Contender: http://www.onelapcamaro.com/

    My old FBody is a long ways of from that caliber of a build, but we can all wish.

    Another thing related to the whole CAN bus thing: http://www.isispower.com/
    This is an aftermarket product that came to the market in the muscle car crowd to work with CAN bus systems. It might be a way to integrate it into a can bus car with some trick programming.
    Last edited by Pzary3233; 03-02-2011 at 11:51 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pzary3233 View Post
    Rao, Correct me if I am wrong.... the converters do not go from 24x to 58x, but the other way around to convert to Cable Throttle.
    The Lingenfelter box goes from 58x to 24x, but someone out there has probably figured out how to go the other way. I wouldn't take that route.
    Rob
    Prior projects:
    1998 540i with 6.6 LS2/T56 Chevy Power
    - pictures and details
    1992 325i with 6.6 LS2/T56 Chevy power - pictures and details
    1995 M3 with 6.6 LS2/T56 Chevy power - pictures and details




  11. #86
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    What is the IGN relay? Is that the DME/ECU relay?

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don Nguyen View Post
    What is the IGN relay? Is that the DME/ECU relay?
    ign is 12v when the key is on at ignition - and at start - it's run power for most accessories (via more relays in some cases) and is run power for the DME/ECU & various other components


    Quote Originally Posted by rao View Post
    The Lingenfelter box goes from 58x to 24x, but someone out there has probably figured out how to go the other way. I wouldn't take that route.
    dividing signal is one thing - measuring signal and multiplying it to get higher resolution is asking for problems

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pzary3233 View Post
    Yes, you want to connect them to your BMW relays, at least that is what I did for switched power. (I am going for a very clean factory approach to the wiring)

    I was being more confusing and making things harder then they needed to be.

    BMW uses a switched ground and a constant hot for the fuel pump relay. the pins are in reference to the pin numbers assigned in the ETM for my old '95 M3. However RhagBag's drawing is correct 100%. You can still use the factory wiring just switch the constant and switched and you're golden.
    I was just going over the ETM again, and it shows that my wiring harness already is set up similar to this drawing:



    Do I still need to switch the #4 and #6 wires? It seems like his drawing infers that that is how it's suppose to look like after it's been switched?

  14. #89
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    I have another question regarding the DME relay. I am trying to figure out which red/wht wire I should be tapping into for the switched battery wires/connections. What does the 87 wire connect to and what does the 87a wire up to?
    Last edited by Don Nguyen; 03-12-2011 at 01:48 PM.

  15. #90
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    Did I scare everyone away by asking too many silly questions?

  16. #91
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    On most 5-pin relays, the numbers are the same, no matter what manufacturer and are as follows

    30: +battery or other incoming power
    87: a "normally open" contact that connects to pin30 when the relay is energized
    87a: a "normally closed" contact that dis-connects from pin30 when the relay is energized
    85: +voltage incoming control signal from a user-operated switch or the PCM or other power source
    86: a ground for power coming from 85, which allows the control coil in the relay to energize; some are direct to ground or the PCM provides ground

    When reading an Electrical Troubleshooting Manual, with few exceptions the power "flows" from top to bottom of the page, per SAE standards. In a few cases, the PCM provides the voltage, so the power may "flow up" the diagram
    Last edited by garretvs; 03-16-2011 at 02:30 PM.



    E30-LS1 Swap Guide and Kits, email us at e30ls1@gmail.com !!! or check our website e30ls1.wordpress.com

  17. #92
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    Thanks. So by that reasoning, I want the red/white on the 87a to be attached to the switched battery wires, such as starter and pcm ignition supply? If so, then what do I do with the red/wht wire that goes for the 87 NC contact?

  18. #93
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    If you don't need the NC contact for anything, pull the wire off & don't use it. A nice example of a 5-pin relay being fully used is the (3) relays which give 2-speed cooling fan control: the middle relay switches the fans from low speed to hi speed by changing the fans circuit from two fans in series to two fans in parallel.



    E30-LS1 Swap Guide and Kits, email us at e30ls1@gmail.com !!! or check our website e30ls1.wordpress.com

  19. #94
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    While buying relays for my harness, I noticed what you were mentioning, Garret. Some relays were more universal, and had extra contacts on it that could either be used or not used, depending on the application. I guess I was forcing my mind too much to think that it had to have a purpose/use, since it was there.

    What's the easiest way to wire up the reverse lock out wires? Did you guys wire it to a switch inside the car that you activated before reversing each time, or is there a way to make it like the factory set up, where it's triggered automatically at a certain speed. Mine is currently locking up just with the car on and not moving.

  20. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tongboy View Post
    6 BMW VSS comes from the rear diff - you don't have to intermingle the LS & bmw systems as the ls1 has the t56 speed vss in it's harness and the bmw cluster has the rear diff speed - everything works fine separately.
    So if the LS1 gets the VSS signal from the t56 how does it compensate for different rear gear ratios? Is there a variable that needs to be set in the ECU with a program like HP tuners?

  21. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by lovnbmws View Post
    So if the LS1 gets the VSS signal from the t56 how does it compensate for different rear gear ratios? Is there a variable that needs to be set in the ECU with a program like HP tuners?
    the GM PCM has a variable for the rear gear ratio as well as tire sizing. a lot of the torque output calculations (which is almost entirely what the engine in the end runs off of - requested torque & measured torque output) are based off of those numbers but as long as they are all off together (ie requested & actual) they skew doesn't really cause any problems in the long run.

    long story short - just change it with HP tuners and go on your way

  22. #97
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    This is a great read Pzary, covers a lot of hard to find info on the E36 wiring!

  23. #98
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    Quick BMW A/C question - does the E36 control the A/C via the DME? Or is it simply an input to the DME to make it know to idle-up, and perhaps change part throttle maps for the additional load? If it's completely self-contained (like it is on my Volvo for example) then you can delete ECU-controlled A/C altogether from the GM ECU. Perhaps I'm just incredibly lucky, and for my Volvo, the only thing I will need to connect is the compressor to the compressor relay. The factory ECU does nothing with the A/C, and the GM ECU is plenty smart enough to detect the additional load and idle up on demand.

  24. #99
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    Thought this would be an appropriate place to link my Google DOC's spread sheet documenting the pin outs and wire connections for my swap. For reference purposes my car is a 99 e36 323is automatic. The engine is an LS1 from a 2002 Trans Am with T56 manual. Please let me know if you see any mistakes or have clarification to add and I will update the file. Happy wiring!

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...2JyUFFVaVdWS3c

    Last edited by lovnbmws; 02-03-2012 at 01:30 PM.

  25. #100
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