ATI Harmonic Crank Balancer - Want to safely rev your S52 to 8k?

[jvit27]

People complain about the price of NA mods enough as it is. There's no way you can even realistically approach this subject for less than half the price of TWO camkits and at the end of the day whether you have 260whp, 280whp, or even 300whp, really doesn't mean much when the FI argument is always there. The 5% of the time you spend using that last 500rpm is insignificant when you consider what you've spent and lost to get there.

This pipedream only makes an S54 swap sound easier and more appealing.

[jworms]

People complain about the price of NA mods enough as it is. There's no way you can even realistically approach this subject for less than half the price of TWO camkits and at the end of the day whether you have 260whp, 280whp, or even 300whp, really doesn't mean much when the FI argument is always there. The 5% of the time you spend using that last 500rpm is insignificant when you consider what you've spent and lost to get there.

This pipedream only makes an S54 swap sound easier and more appealing.

on the contrary, 7400RPM is sounding more and more like stock valvetrain is more than sufficient (using the sunbelts as an example). with other typical mods, this one $575 part could provide 20+rwhp. which other NA mod for the E36 M3 provides gains like that for so little money? the m50 intake manifold is the only one i know of. people spend their money on mods that do a lot less for them. at least this one will be worth it.

[bjl4776]

^Never took that into consideration, and you may be correct. I looked up the Real Oem part numbers of the S50/S52 crank and they are indeed different (and of course they would be, right?)

The crank pulleys will bolt up correctly to either crack and use the same drive belt. The problem is soley due to the crank trigger wheel. S50(OBD-1) has trigger wheel as part of the pulley, while S52(OBD-2) does not.

on the contrary, 7400RPM is sounding more and more like stock valvetrain is more than sufficient (using the sunbelts as an example). with other typical mods, this one $575 part could provide 20+rwhp. which other NA mod for the E36 M3 provides gains like that for so little money? the m50 intake manifold is the only one i know of. people spend their money on mods that do a lot less for them. at least this one will be worth it.

The problem with that statement is that it might net you that, but requires additional mods to do so. Look at camshafts, they can net you 30-40hp with an appropriate tune and injectors. Now extrude hone the intake, BBTB, 3.5" intake, headers, and bam that camshafts are now even more effective than any of those mods alone or in combo other than the cams. Take it one step further and put the BavSol CNC ported cylinder head, and it takes another step up. I think that BavSol net'd a high power well sorted FI car over 100whp. With us minorities over hear in NA land it will obviously be much less, but things do add up. And as far as the powerband is concerned, a nice 3.46 or 3.64 diff will help make the useable power more availible and if you really care about the highway than a 6 speed will bring your cruise RPMs back to managable

Put all the bullshit about NA vs FI or effective cost aside. If you just built a motor, from mild, wild, FI, NA, is the damper an worthwhile safety net even at stock or slightly above stock RPMs? Is the theory behind it sound, does it actually reduce crankshaft movement? If it does reduce it, could it not be useful on a fully stock engine with the intention of increasing engine durability and life? If any of these answers is yes than for $5-600 it seems it would be a worthwhile investment just to protect your engine.

[Serious]

on the contrary, 7400RPM is sounding more and more like stock valvetrain is more than sufficient (using the sunbelts as an example). with other typical mods, this one $575 part could provide 20+rwhp. which other NA mod for the E36 M3 provides gains like that for so little money? the m50 intake manifold is the only one i know of. people spend their money on mods that do a lot less for them. at least this one will be worth it.

How can you say that? There will no way to quantify if the pulley is actually what is keeping the motor together vs. just spinning it at 7400rpm w/o the pulley.

That is the biggest problem with car forums, (and im not trying to pick on anyone specific here, just a general rant i have becaues I see it over and over again) there are so many unaccounted for variables, inaccurate data, and misplaced assumptions that there is very little truely usable data out there. Combine that with the stubborness and you have a recipe for truely epic disaster.

I mean what's to say the pulley is what makes the difference between the motor holding together at 7500rpm or not? Maybe the pulley actually increases the harmonic vibration... no one actually knows... it's just blind faith put into the hands of people who aren't as qualified, financed, or knowledable as the people who originally designed/engineered the engine & individual components.

IMO unless someone is willing to put their motor on the line, push it past it's breaking point all you're going to be left with is a thread full of blind assumptions, subject data, and personal opinion... all of which hurts the design process as much as it helps.

Put all the bullshit about NA vs FI or effective cost aside. If you just built a motor, from mild, wild, FI, NA, is the damper an worthwhile safety net even at stock or slightly above stock RPMs? Is the theory behind it sound, does it actually reduce crankshaft movement? If it does reduce it, could it not be useful on a fully stock engine with the intention of increasing engine durability and life? If any of these answers is yes than for $5-600 it seems it would be a worthwhile investment just to protect your engine.

I wouldn't feel more safe with an aftermarket damper on my car then the one designed and tested by BMW engineers. I would feel alot less safe.

[bjl4776]

I wouldn't feel more safe with an aftermarket damper on my car then the one designed and tested by BMW engineers. I would feel alot less safe.

ATI in the domestic world is like TMS, Vorshlag, etc is to us. They are quality designed parts with a proven track record that in most cases are better than OEM. I do hope you realize by now that not every part on your car is perfect, bean counters work for BMW too, and that there are better solutions out there than OEM. I even believe that there is a "Motorsport" Harmonic Balancer for our cars although finding the part number is similar to finding Isla De Muertes, cant be done unless you already know it.

[Serious]

ATI in the domestic world is like TMS, Vorshlag, etc is to us. They are quality designed parts with a proven track record that in most cases are better than OEM.

Im not trying to discredit them, I wouldn't trust a crank pulley designed by TMS or Vorshlag either unless it had some hard data or history of performance to back up the product claims.

It's just the fact that there is no way to analyze harmonic vibrations or frequency's for the average joe, it's not like burning a chip and checking the timing and a/f ratio on the local dyno... there is no way to verify the effects without a huge investment either in testing (blown motors) or computer simulated crank harmonic analysis (which I and im guessing 99% of owners on here don't know how to do).

You know the BMW designed part will function under normal conditions and even beyond normal operating conditions due the designed in safety factor, changing that without any data is asking for trouble IMO.

[bjl4776]

Im not trying to discredit them, I wouldn't trust a crank pulley designed by TMS or Vorshlag either unless it had some hard data or history of performance to back up the product claims.

It's just the fact that there is no way to analyze harmonic vibrations or frequency's for the average joe, it's not like burning a chip and checking the timing and a/f ratio on the local dyno... there is no way to verify the effects without a huge investment either in testing (blown motors) or computer simulated crank harmonic analysis (which I and im guessing 99% of owners on here don't know how to do).

You know the BMW designed part will function under normal conditions and even beyond normal operating conditions due the designed in safety factor, changing that without any data is asking for trouble IMO.

I can respect that opinion but I am willing to bet that ATI has put more R&D into its dampers than BMW has and they have the data that you speak of and will probably give it to you if they ask They are better than trusted BMW aftermarket suppliers because all they do is dampers.

Im not trying to discredit them, I wouldn't trust a crank pulley designed by TMS or Vorshlag either unless it had some hard data or history of performance to back up the product claims.

It's just the fact that there is no way to analyze harmonic vibrations or frequency's for the average joe, it's not like burning a chip and checking the timing and a/f ratio on the local dyno... there is no way to verify the effects without a huge investment either in testing (blown motors) or computer simulated crank harmonic analysis (which I and im guessing 99% of owners on here don't know how to do).

You know the BMW designed part will function under normal conditions and even beyond normal operating conditions due the designed in safety factor, changing that without any data is asking for trouble IMO.

I can respect that opinion but I am willing to bet that ATI has put more R&D into its dampers than BMW has and they have the data that you speak of and will probably give it to you if they ask. They are better than trusted BMW aftermarket suppliers because all they do is dampers.

[Serious]

I can respect that opinion but I am willing to bet that ATI has put more R&D into its dampers than BMW has and they have the data that you speak of and will probably give it to you if they ask They are better than trusted BMW aftermarket suppliers because all they do is dampers.

Im sorry but BMW practically invented the modern inline 6 engine... no one in the world knows more about every aspect of inline 6's then BMW as a whole.

[jworms]

How can you say that? There will no way to quantify if the pulley is actually what is keeping the motor together vs. just spinning it at 7400rpm w/o the pulley.

That is the biggest problem with car forums, (and im not trying to pick on anyone specific here, just a general rant i have becaues I see it over and over again) there are so many unaccounted for variables, inaccurate data, and misplaced assumptions that there is very little truely usable data out there. Combine that with the stubborness and you have a recipe for truely epic disaster.

I mean what's to say the pulley is what makes the difference between the motor holding together at 7500rpm or not? Maybe the pulley actually increases the harmonic vibration... no one actually knows... it's just blind faith put into the hands of people who aren't as qualified, financed, or knowledable as the people who originally designed/engineered the engine & individual components.

IMO unless someone is willing to put their motor on the line, push it past it's breaking point all you're going to be left with is a thread full of blind assumptions, subject data, and personal opinion... all of which hurts the design process as much as it helps.



I wouldn't feel more safe with an aftermarket damper on my car then the one designed and tested by BMW engineers. I would feel alot less safe.

that's why, in the original post, PEI330's car was mentioned and how it ran to 8000RPM with the same crank frequently without issue. and that the reason he was able to do that was from this harmonic balancer.

modding a car is risky business however you slice it. i remember when the 335 just came out and people were scared sh**less about blowing their engines up. now look at them. they went from making meager gains on their engines to monstrous gains and running low 11s (if not 10s by now) with stock turbos. this was all made possible by people willing to take a chance in an effort to see what is possible.

again, i don't think anyone is saying to throw one of these on a car and rev it to 9000RPM to see what happens. on the other hand, i think the attitude you are pushing is one that stagnates growth and advancement in the community -- something i have seen happen far too often here.

[Serious]

that's why, in the original post, PEI330's car was mentioned and how it ran to 8000RPM with the same crank frequently without issue. and that the reason he was able to do that was from this harmonic balancer.

Like I have said all thread there is no evidence to prove what effect the aftermarket harmonic balancer has. yes the motor has held together so far... how can you prove it wouldn't have held together up to this point with the stock damper?

modding a car is risky business however you slice it. i remember when the 335 just came out and people were scared sh**less about blowing their engines up. now look at them. they went from making meager gains on their engines to monstrous gains and running low 11s (if not 10s by now) with stock turbos. this was all made possible by people willing to take a chance in an effort to see what is possible.

You honestly believe those cars running 11's on stock components really have anywhere near stock reliability or component lifetime? because I don't.

again, i don't think anyone is saying to throw one of these on a car and rev it to 9000RPM to see what happens. on the other hand, i think the attitude you are pushing is one that stagnates growth and advancement in the community -- something i have seen happen far too often here.

Hey if you think this pulley is the magic pill then by all means feel free, but just realize you couldn't be going about this more unscientifically.

You're motor may pop it may not, but either way you have no emperical evidence to say whether or not the crank pulley did good or caused harm.

The motor may hold together because of or in spite of the crank pulley. Or it might break in spite of or because of. You can't say either way.

[BleedsBlue]

Interesting read, it's cool to see you guys talking about this. I'm a skeptic though, and think it's almost a little funny that some of you think a 300rwhp and/or 7500rpm+ S52 is possible (one that lasts longer than 20 hours).

I think you guys need to give up on the engine, settle with ~260 usable rwhp (you guys don't even want 300rwhp when it means no torque under 5k), or swap in an ITB engine and go to town. Those engines have NA building potential...

[jvit27]

that's why, in the original post, PEI330's car was mentioned and how it ran to 8000RPM with the same crank frequently without issue. and that the reason he was able to do that was from this harmonic balancer.

modding a car is risky business however you slice it. i remember when the 335 just came out and people were scared sh**less about blowing their engines up. now look at them. they went from making meager gains on their engines to monstrous gains and running low 11s (if not 10s by now) with stock turbos. this was all made possible by people willing to take a chance in an effort to see what is possible.

again, i don't think anyone is saying to throw one of these on a car and rev it to 9000RPM to see what happens. on the other hand, i think the attitude you are pushing is one that stagnates growth and advancement in the community -- something i have seen happen far too often here.

It's not an attitude, it's applied mechanics. Just because a handful of people POST "yeah this works" doesn't make it reliable or even desirable. Look at how much information has been regurgitated by people over the years not because they actually tried it themselves, but simply because they read it somewhere else. Is PEI330 going to pay for your motor if it blows up when you rev it to 8000? No.

Advancement is great. It's why we have the S85, etc however you're talking about making a motor that was designed 15 years ago keep up with the latest technology by changing a few pieces of hardware. Alot more goes into designing an engine than just counterbalancing the moving parts...

[TC535i]

Haven't read thru the whole thing, but my concern would be top-end, primarily the ability of the valve springs to withstand and keep up with such abuse. I know there were concerns with early s50 springs breaking, and at those RPMs I'd be afraid of valve float.

[jworms]

Like I have said all thread there is no evidence to prove what effect the aftermarket harmonic balancer has. yes the motor has held together so far... how can you prove it wouldn't have held together up to this point with the stock damper?

you're right. there is nothing that absolutely proves this will work or that the balancer is the fix, but it's definitely a start and it can be a catalyst for something that could be great. seems silly and small minded to pass up the opportunity to at least investigate it.

You honestly believe those cars running 11's on stock components really have anywhere near stock reliability or component lifetime? because I don't.

so have you ever modded your car? do you think the components you used helped the longevity of the engine? if not, why did you do it knowing that they might take a couple thousand miles off the life of the engine? modding a car isn't usually about increasing the longevity of the engine. of course, there is a happy-medium that exists with that, but if you don't know where that is then how can you define it?

Hey if you think this pulley is the magic pill then by all means feel free, but just realize you couldn't be going about this more unscientifically.

You're motor may pop it may not, but either way you have no emperical evidence to say whether or not the crank pulley did good or caused harm.

The motor may hold together because of or in spite of the crank pulley. Or it might break in spite of or because of. You can't say either way.

instead of boldly saying "you're doing it wrong" how about something along the lines of "here's how you could go about doing this..." or "this is how you could do it right..."

It's not an attitude, it's applied mechanics. Just because a handful of people POST "yeah this works" doesn't make it reliable or even desirable. Look at how much information has been regurgitated by people over the years not because they actually tried it themselves, but simply because they read it somewhere else. Is PEI330 going to pay for your motor if it blows up when you rev it to 8000? No.

Advancement is great. It's why we have the S85, etc however you're talking about making a motor that was designed 15 years ago keep up with the latest technology by changing a few pieces of hardware. Alot more goes into designing an engine than just counterbalancing the moving parts...

pretty crazy that things are still being developed for a chassis that is 15 years old, eh? we should be thankful that new technology becomes available for these cars and we should be thankful that tuners/people don't have that mentality of not developing for it just because "it's old" and there are newer cars now.

i haven't seen any applied mechanics here that prove this won't work. what i am seeing is the typical folklore on this forum being regurgitated as legitimate proof for why this won't work. nothing that proves this won't work. as repeated many times before, let's move this thread towards discussing a method to see if this really works before dismissing it.

[jvit27]

what i am seeing is the typical folklore on this forum being regurgitated as legitimate proof for why this won't work. nothing that proves this won't work. as repeated many times before, let's move this thread towards discussing a method to see if this really works before dismissing it.

It's the same thing over and over again lately. There are people who have been around for a long time, who know what they're talking about, and the newer generation of E36 drivers has this Kanye West attitude that they're gonna do it better. Then when the experts chime in, it's merely seen as "hating."

As GotBHP? pointed out earlier, the fascination with revving E36's to 8000rpm is downright confusing. Just get an E46.
or an S2000.
or a streetbike.

S52's had their time to shine in the N/A spotlight but even an extra 20hp is insignificant after all is said and done when the reality is they are best boosted nowadays.

[MThrizze]

too much money to achieve so little imo, the s52 was just not designed to be a high revving monster, but it is however still a remarkable motor in my eyes, we have a iron block with a forged crankshaft and a decent flowing head, that is all one needs to extract mass amounts of power if built right, dispite the fact that it will never see past 7k what is the point? I drive my roomates e46 atleast once a day, its kool to go to 8k but honestly it doesn't really make me feel any better. motors fail when you try to mess with the angular & harmonic properties, I bet it would take over 10k to make the s52 successively rev to 8 while making power in that range N/A

[jworms]

It's the same thing over and over again lately. There are people who have been around for a long time, who know what they're talking about, and the newer generation of E36 drivers has this Kanye West attitude that they're gonna do it better. Then when the experts chime in, it's merely seen as "hating."

As GotBHP? pointed out earlier, the fascination with revving E36's to 8000rpm is downright confusing. Just get an E46.
or an S2000.
or a streetbike.

S52's had their time to shine in the N/A spotlight but even an extra 20hp is insignificant after all is said and done when the reality is they are best boosted nowadays.

ah, now we've moved onto strawman arguments. great. btw, i'm not exactly new in the E36 M3 arena.

where are the experts? what proof have they given that this won't work? i haven't seen any. funny, any time i mention this i get no response. also, this could benefit FI just as much (if not more) than N/A setups. that 20rwhp mentioned previously for an N/A application would be significantly higher for an FI car.

from now on, please post with the following things assumed:

• this could actually work (unless you can provide REAL PROOF why it wouldn't)
• there are still people out there who are interested in modifying their E36 M3 (N/A or FI) instead of buying a new motor/car

these two simple things will *hopefully* keep this thread on topic. otherwise, i'm not above going to a mod to get assistance on this one.

too much money to achieve so little imo, the s52 was just not designed to be a high revving monster, but it is however still a remarkable motor in my eyes, we have a iron block with a forged crankshaft and a decent flowing head, that is all one needs to extract mass amounts of power if built right, dispite the fact that it will never see past 7k what is the point? I drive my roomates e46 atleast once a day, its kool to go to 8k but honestly it doesn't really make me feel any better. motors fail when you try to mess with the angular & harmonic properties, I bet it would take over 10k to make the s52 successively rev to 8 while making power in that range N/A

this isn't a matter of revving to 8k just to rev to 8k. there are actual performance benefits to this other than bragging rights. not to forget that, if this works out, it could be as cheap as $575.

also read this if you're on the fence about messing with engine harmonics:

Fixed that for you.

Read this:

http://www.atiperformanceproducts.co...mper_dinan.htm

That goes for ANY car that has a harmonic blancer/damper. If you replace it with a unit that doesn't dampen the vibrations, it WILL eventually rip apart the bottom end of the motor.

Which brings me to my next point. Within the past two years or so, another Supra owner on another forum I frequent paid to have the first ATI dampened crank pulley made for MKIII Supras. It cost him a bit, but now they're readily available to the Supra community, and are cheaper than an OEM replacement from the dealership.

It also weighs significantly less than the OEM unit.

If there was enough interest, I bet that ATI would build one for the e36 that's dampened. Just food for thought.

Edit: Oh yeah, and you can get it with or without the A/C belt groove for the Supra.

if done right, it can yield great results; this is what this thread is about.

[BleedsBlue]

You act like you have found out some big secret about this car and engine... sorry but I have more faith in Stickley n Co than you. Jvit is right, there are more and more threads cropping up from people trying to reinvent the wheel. You have to realize all the tuners spent all of their money trying to figure this stuff out when the cars were relatively new. Aftermarket technology hasn't changed as much as you think, suggesting this damper would have changed the face of tuning 'back in the day' ten years ago.

[jworms]

You act like you have found out some big secret about this car and engine... sorry but I have more faith in Stickley n Co than you. Jvit is right, there are more and more threads cropping up from people trying to reinvent the wheel. You have to realize all the tuners spent all of their money trying to figure this stuff out when the cars were relatively new. Aftermarket technology hasn't changed as much as you think, suggesting this damper would have changed the face of tuning 'back in the day' ten years ago.

so you can say with 100% certainty that this will not work? can you also say that there have been no new developments in the E36 M3 world in the last 3 years that people thought were previously highly improbable, if not impossible? (protip: there have been a couple). are you also saying that stickley leaves zero potential on the table and there is no such thing as new parts/technology being available for a motor after stickley has built one of them?

if the answer to any of those are no, then i implore you to give this thread the respect it deserves.

[Serious]

[*]this could actually work (unless you can provide REAL PROOF why it wouldn't)

No one has emphatically said it won't work... but somehow you seem to have this idea stuck in your head that this damper is the next coming. When pretty basic mechanical engineering principals and common sense says something very different.

Just for kicks lets look at the risk reward ratio.

Risk- Popped motor, new longblock.
Reward- A couple extra hundred RPM on the top end, maybe an extra 5-8whp given average cam kit s52.

Personally I find it quite foolhardy to just assume a mod will work without any way to validate or measure changes.

Do what you will, I don't think anyone else cares either way... but my advice is don't look for help when you pop the motor... and more importantly don't come here in a month bragging about some new magic crank pulley has allowed you to rev to 7500rpm where the stock one would've failed because it will just contain conjecture and opinion... both of which are useless without hard data or testing to back them up.

[jvit27]

ah, now we've moved onto strawman arguments. great. btw, i'm not exactly new in the E36 M3 arena.

where are the experts? what proof have they given that this won't work? i haven't seen any. funny, any time i mention this i get no response. also, this could benefit FI just as much (if not more) than N/A setups. that 20rwhp mentioned previously for an N/A application would be significantly higher for an FI car.

from now on, please post with the following things assumed:

• this could actually work (unless you can provide REAL PROOF why it wouldn't)
• there are still people out there who are interested in modifying their E36 M3 (N/A or FI) instead of buying a new motor/car

these two simple things will *hopefully* keep this thread on topic. otherwise, i'm not above going to a mod to get assistance on this one.

Despite strongly disagreeing with your MAF philosophy, I know you are not new to the scene. Futhermore, just because some of us aren't saying what you want to hear doesnt necessitate mod assistance. This thread has been on topic the whole time, and has had some good information posted - albeit not the "REAL PROOF" you want. Fact is, that will only come from someone using this damper and destroying multiple motors to find out how far you can *consistently* go with it before backing off, and I think it'd be a stretch (even for bfc ) to assume anyone is stupid enough to volunteer theirs as the guinea pig. It's a bit hypocritical because there is no "real proof" for either camp since it was just one guy...

FI guys already make more power they can put to the ground, and BMW has spent large fortunes developing things like dual vanos to combat peaky powerbands. You wont find many people who actually do have the means to research this either because quite frankly it's a waste of time and money. The fraction of a second spent realizing any power gains that you hope this will lead to is such a short duration compared to the amount of time spent UNDER 7000rpm where the sacrifice occurs.

I'm sure its all rainbows and dynographs but I don't see anyone driving around at redline all day.

[MThrizze]

There is no way it can be as cheap as 575 and yield performance gains, the motor just cant, hydraulic lifters and they head will never flow well enough, I mean a god damn m50 just about maxes out the flow of the head. Alot more things need to be done for it to be effective which is my point, what peoples definition of effective is, now that is another question. I am not saying this cannot be done, nothing is impossible with a motor but at what cost?? even if this part is mass produced and can be bought for 300 what about all the other requirements?

[Serious]

so have you ever modded your car? do you think the components you used helped the longevity of the engine? if not, why did you do it knowing that they might take a couple thousand miles off the life of the engine? modding a car isn't usually about increasing the longevity of the engine. of course, there is a happy-medium that exists with that, but if you don't know where that is then how can you define it?

Actually I realized after owning my e36 and working on some basic engineering projects that the threads bragging about how great mods where tended to be very misguided. They actually tended to feel more like people trying to secure themselves with their own purchase decisions... and contray to the fact that some forum member may say, "oh ya it runs just like stock" or "It's making way more power now and runs smoother"... for the most part I found they were often completely wrong.

It's extremely rare that I have actually come across an aftermarket part of higher quality or better engineered then the factory stuff, (this doesn't always stop me from modding as tailoring the car to my taste is different then part quality)... but the only parts I can think of that were actually higher quality aftermarket parts then factory were my BBS LM's. The rest of it was all worse, and I bought the more expensive stuff, not ebay garbage.

Luckily I realized this years ago, and am able to afford to buy a car that is as fast as I want it to be but still retains a stock drivetrain... Best of both worlds... uncompromised factory quality and reliability with performance level I was looking for. Modding and doing new stuff is awesome, I still love it but I realized it was pretty pointless to hurt drivability and reliability on a daily driven street car that only sees a few HPDE's and autoX's a year for just a few extra ponies. Its much more efficient to focus limited time and money resources on stuff like our FSAE car or a chump car.

[Mad Dog 20/20]

I want 6 TB's
I want 8.5k redline
I want 300 whp

You want an S54, not an S52 w/ lipstick . . .

[jworms]

No one has emphatically said it won't work... but somehow you seem to have this idea stuck in your head that this damper is the next coming. When pretty basic mechanical engineering principals and common sense says something very different.

Just for kicks lets look at the risk reward ratio.

Risk- Popped motor, new longblock.
Reward- A couple extra hundred RPM on the top end, maybe an extra 5-8whp given average cam kit s52.

Personally I find it quite foolhardy to just assume a mod will work without any way to validate or measure changes.

Do what you will, I don't think anyone else cares either way... but my advice is don't look for help when you pop the motor... and more importantly don't come here in a month bragging about some new magic crank pulley has allowed you to rev to 7500rpm where the stock one would've failed because it will just contain conjecture and opinion... both of which are useless without hard data or testing to back them up.

i'm not interested in responding to most of your reply because i'd just end up repeating what i've been saying throughout this thread, but i will say that the potential rewards are certainly more than what you mentioned. it could be 20+rwhp for N/A and a whole LOT more with FI applications. it could be similar to gains you'd see with the M50 intake manifold, or even cams. maybe it's just me, but that seems worthwhile.

There is no way it can be as cheap as 575 and yield performance gains, the motor just cant, hydraulic lifters and they head will never flow well enough, I mean a god damn m50 just about maxes out the flow of the head. Alot more things need to be done for it to be effective which is my point, what peoples definition of effective is, now that is another question. I am not saying this cannot be done, nothing is impossible with a motor but at what cost?? even if this part is mass produced and can be bought for 300 what about all the other requirements?

sunbelt already suggested that the stock head can handle 7400RPM if the harmonics were there. this part would solve the harmonics issues. anything beyond that is going to need R&D to figure out (part of what this thread is about). though, at the very least it seems like this part could allow for 7400RPM red lines in street driven E36 M3s. that could result in 20+rwhp gains, better gearing, and faster cars in general.

...now, if we can go over 7400RPM, the results get even better.

Despite strongly disagreeing with your MAF philosophy, I know you are not new to the scene. Futhermore, just because some of us aren't saying what you want to hear doesnt necessitate mod assistance. This thread has been on topic the whole time, and has had some good information posted - albeit not the "REAL PROOF" you want. Fact is, that will only come from someone using this damper and destroying multiple motors to find out how far you can *consistently* go with it before backing off, and I think it'd be a stretch (even for bfc ) to assume anyone is stupid enough to volunteer theirs as the guinea pig. It's a bit hypocritical because there is no "real proof" for either camp since it was just one guy...

this sounds like scare tactic. we can probably safely assume from sunbelt's research, the motor can handle 7400RPM if the harmonics were there. you make it seem like the first person to try this and drive with it will blow their motor definitely.

how about we discuss methods to prevent that situation but still move forward with this?

FI guys already make more power they can put to the ground, and BMW has spent large fortunes developing things like dual vanos to combat peaky powerbands. You wont find many people who actually do have the means to research this either because quite frankly it's a waste of time and money. The fraction of a second spent realizing any power gains that you hope this will lead to is such a short duration compared to the amount of time spent UNDER 7000rpm where the sacrifice occurs.

I'm sure its all rainbows and dynographs but I don't see anyone driving around at redline all day.

no need to drive at red line all day and i feel bad for anyone who doesn't venture near red line on their M3 sometimes. do you think s2000 owners give a hoot about their engines being too peaky? what about cars with S54 engines in them? you make it seem like raising the red line 400RPM would ruin the streetability of the car...and, heaven forbid, make it more like the aforementioned cars. i mean, as it is now there are plenty of modded S52 engines making more torque than both of those engines; believe me, there is torque to spare. and if you don't think so, then don't do it. simple as that.

I want 6 TB's
I want 8.5k redline
I want 300 whp

You want an S54, not an S52 w/ lipstick . . .

come on, man...