AA Turbo M3 vs Corvette Z06 ... Part 2

[Kevlar]

I talked to the guy about the video... he says when he's done editing it, he'll get me a copy.

ANYWAY... guy in the Z06 came back last Thursday, talkin' smack about how he's got the car tuned with a new exhaust and wants to run again.

Now keep in my I'm retelling the story how it was told to me...

They talked a little and then engines start and they are going back to their 'testing location'.

First run, Turbo M3 loses . Guy pulls up next to the Z06 and goes "That's no freakin' exhaust mod... what else did you do". Z06 owner grins and replies NOS.

Turbo M3 owner agrees and this time decides he's not going to play with the Z06 anymore... This time, they go at it, Turbo M3 wins... don't know by how much, couldn't be much, but still wins.

Z06 guys says WTF : ... Turbo M3 guys replies, before I was being nice... now I'm just planting my right foot.

They raced one more time, TurboM3 beat the Z06 on NOS.

TurboM3 vs Z06 3-0
TurboM3 vs Z06 on the bottle 2-1

Z06 owner wasn't happy...

Active Autowerke dominates again... smacking American horsepower up and down the street.

[Rel44 M3]

OH sweet! Turbo M3 beats a Z06 running with mods and nitrous!!! That is awesome. Dude, we gotta get some videos.

[QuestMCoupe]

what stage of turbo does the M3 have? Is it a OBD-I or II?

[M3TurboCa]

Kevlar do you know what the M3 turbo is running must be atleast a stage 2+ to take a Z06 with nos .

I figure the Z06 must have atleast a 75hp bottle.

Maybe the M3 has his motor done up with the pistons if that the case he can run 15lbs and man that car would be hauling pretty well..

I can only imagine what the Z06 owner is going through more power from the nos atleast 125hp kit. He must fell like an idiot after the 2nd and 3rd run.

Mark

[Kevlar]

The guy was kinda secretive about the exact setup... but it looks to be at least a stage 2 kit. If you look under the car, the exhaust is 3.5" back from the turbo.

[Anfanger]

Just be careful he doesnt twin turbo the Corvette one day... in that case just give up right there . Its still nice to quasi-whoop a Vette.

[Rel44 M3]

Originally posted by Anfanger
Just be careful he doesnt twin turbo the Corvette one day... in that case just give up right there . Its still nice to quasi-whoop a Vette.

If he twin turbo's the Vette just to beat the M3, that's fine. I'd still consider it a moral victory. Paying over $100k+ for the Vette with turbos just so he could beat the turbo M3.

[Stockman]

I want to see a dyno on this m3... or at least its 1/4 mile time...

because either he has some insane modifications done or the z06 guy cant drive

[Bernanke]

Originally posted by Stockman
I want to see a dyno on this m3... or at least its 1/4 mile time...

because either he has some insane modifications done or the z06 guy cant drive

well you have to consider ALL corvette drivers suck, i guess the faster they think they are, the slower they REALLY are. One guy at import expo just bought E46 M3 and said he raced Z06 repeatedly and it was tied everytime, neither could gain on each other. So that seems about right.

[Rel44 M3]

Badbadm, I'm glad you said it first. It's hard to make a blanket statement saying all Corvette drivers suck. I find a lot of them just as enthusiastic and knowledgeable about their cars as us. They do driving schools and compete on the track just like us (well not really "us", because I have yet to go to a driving school or track ). And the Corvette, especially the Z06, is a fine sports car.

[frayed]

The Z06 is not just a fine sports car, it's a turn key race car that will sodomize just about any car in its price range and many that are more expensive.

Now, I'm not running out and buying one (not my style), but it is a really, really fast machine on a road course. Awesome in all three categories that count on the track: handling, braking, and acceleration.

The 2002's are that much more frightening too.

[Rel44 M3]

Well I guess there are a few of us that appreciate the Z06! I can't wait to see what the 405-hp Z06's can do.

[frayed]

Originally posted by Rel44 M3
Well I guess there are a few of us that appreciate the Z06! I can't wait to see what the 405-hp Z06's can do.

Yeah, no kidding. My instructor in the 'mere' 385 hp version is a force to be reckoned with. A real monster of a car.

[gerry_miranda]

Seems like were now comapring a DRAGSTER M3 (I think this is the only real use for a turbo with this much torque/power), with a Z06 Track Car (sans N2O).....Apples to oranges.....

[Kevlar]

Originally posted by gerry_miranda
Seems like were now comapring a DRAGSTER M3 (I think this is the only real use for a turbo with this much torque/power), with a Z06 Track Car (sans N2O).....Apples to oranges.....

Not necessarily true... the car would handle well on a track IMO.

[gerry_miranda]

Originally posted by Kevlar


Not necessarily true... the car would handle well on a track IMO.

Sure It will handle like an M3, but when the boost hits.....what then. I meant , if youre comapring power to power, I'm sure the Z06 power/Tq is more usable on the track

[Kevlar]

Originally posted by gerry_miranda
Sure It will handle like an M3, but when the boost hits.....what then. I meant , if youre comapring power to power, I'm sure the Z06 power/Tq is more usable on the track

Like any turbo car it will take a little finesse to drive... but you can run low boost thru the corners and then full boost down the straights.

[QuestMCoupe]

Any word on when you might be getting that video online?

[Rel44 M3]

Originally posted by Kevlar


Like any turbo car it will take a little finesse to drive... but you can run low boost thru the corners and then full boost down the straights.

When Kevlar gets his turbo in he'll be able to demonstrate.

[frayed]

Gerry,

Have you tracked your blown M3? Curious, b/c it seems that both forms of forced induction have their drawbacks on the track....blowers with heat soak, turbos with boost lag and boost dump, that latter making for some unexpected off road excursions.

[gerry_miranda]

Originally posted by frayed
Gerry,

Have you tracked your blown M3? Curious, b/c it seems that both forms of forced induction have their drawbacks on the track....blowers with heat soak, turbos with boost lag and boost dump, that latter making for some unexpected off road excursions.

Yep...I have....
Its harder to control than an NA car...but there are no boost spikes or boost dump induced oversteer. I was actually faster around the track pre-induction because it was easir. I just nail it to the floor. Now I have to be more careful.

I cant see how one can control Partial turbo boost around a corner. Nor can I see avoiding boost dump at an inapropriate moment.

Heat soak is a problem...hopefully the new AA water injection will take care of that...

[frayed]

Gerry,

I spoke at length today with a hard core track junkie running an RMS stage II kit (basically the same blower kit as Dinan, but with RMS' aftercooler setup), along with other goodies, including oil cooler and upgraded cooling fans.

Anyway, it seems he has been completely successful in conquering the dreaded heat soak issue. B/t the oil cooler, fans and aftercooler, he runs strong, even at 100 degree ambient temps on the track. That's exactly what I wanted to hear.

I'm sure the aquamist setup will address your concerns, but you should think about the rms aftercooler, or wait to see ESS' aftercooler setup, which is now overdue for release.

On you statement about being faster pre-induction, it's interesting. If you read C&D's article on the trio of Dinan's cars (posted on their site), they posted faster lap times with the cammed, lower power car, than with the blown car. It seems they had problems with keeping the car under control coming out of the corners. Could it be possible that forced induction is too much of a good thing?

[///MCubed]

Well,

I had a nice long response to this thread that made a few points, but I am not going to type it up again so I will give you the highlights:

1. With all things else being equal, yes a NA car will have an advantage to a Turbo car (or any other form of FI).

2. I would not jump to the conclusion that a NA car will have the advantage on a track over a turbo car, that really depends on the driver (I bet if I could get Hans Stuck to drive a Turbo M3 or other turbo car -vs.- a NA car on a track, like the ZO6, I bet the out come would not be too bad). Of course this depends on who is driving the ZO6 as well, which brings me back to the main point of section #2. I know that Catasby Jones (I think that was his name) came in 3rd overall in the One Lap of America series to a Lambo and a Mosseley in a daily driven 318ti with a turbo M3 motor. Pretty impressive if you ask me!!!

3. It depends on what track they are in. The track design can limit the "usable" performance of the car.

4. What support performance does the engine performance have (suspension, brakes, etc.)? It has to be a complete package, which the ZO6 is (a turnkey racecar, the "American Ferrari"), and the E36 was not designed to be by the Motorsport division (more of a performance luxury coupe). Two different cars, apples to oranges.

I know I am missing some points I had in the post I was going to put up (damn timer logging me out) here and I will add to this post. Hopefully I will get some posts in response so we can get a good and civilized argument.

-Carlos

[gerry_miranda]

Originally posted by ///MCubed
Well,

4. What support performance does the engine performance have (suspension, brakes, etc.)? It has to be a complete package, which the ZO6 is (a turnkey racecar, the "American Ferrari"), and the E36 was not designed to be by the Motorsport division (more of a performance luxury coupe). Two different cars, apples to oranges.
-Carlos

I thought thats what I said.
Any way a turbo M3 might have the power to go against a Z06, but it does not have the linear power delivery or the "support performance" engineered to the turbo level of power.

Any way give Mr Stuck a Z06 with 405 HP or a turbo E36 M3 with 405 hp , I bet he will be faster in the Z06 on any track....

[///MCubed]

apples to oranges

Make all things equal and then we will talk....