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Thread: My Supercharger story.

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by 8eights View Post
    Should probably try a Stock set of cams, They will be more in sync with the compression needed for your induction set up, Any aggressive cams will be going in a different direction and will send you towards Higher compression, You will not be able to compensate cam aggression through software. Camshafts are easy to change, Worth a shot. Have a set here if needed to test only/Or? You pay shipping!)
    A very good point IMO. "Hot" cams do not make any sense with FI engines and should be avoided. Could very well be the key for your problem.
    And the intakes aren't that much of a pain once you know how to do it.



  2. #52
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
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    -90 850 -12 ///M550xd
    Thanks to 8eights a set of oem M70 cams will soon be on their way from the US.
    May have to draft my usual e31 mechanic to assist me as I need to use his garage
    might have to have him park his CSi or his wifes e93 convertible outside for a day or two as my own 55sq.M (590sq.ft) garage won't be completed before October.
    -Egil (my name)

    2012 ///M550xd touring
    1990 850Ia Hartge Supercharged.
    2004 M3 (sold)


  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noggie View Post
    Thanks to 8eights a set of oem M70 cams will soon be on their way from the US.
    May have to draft my usual e31 mechanic to assist me as I need to use his garage
    might have to have him park his CSi or his wifes e93 convertible outside for a day or two as my own 55sq.M (590sq.ft) garage won't be completed before October.
    Congrats

    And I'm sure a lot of flowers to the wife and a lot of beers to the mechanic will help a lot
    "Adversity cause some men to break; others to break records." -William A. Ward

    "There" is no better a place than "here." When your "there" has become a "here", you will simply obtain another "there" that will again look better than "here."

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by IvanHansen View Post
    Congrats

    And I'm sure a lot of flowers to the wife and a lot of beers to the mechanic will help a lot
    Well beers might help

  5. #55
    Join Date
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    UK
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    BMW 850CSi, E53 X5 4.8iS
    I'm not quite understanding this!

    I sent you a set of stock M70 cams a couple of years ago to try. Did you not fit them?

    8Tech.

  6. #56
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    two 8er 6 speeds + 7ers
    Quote Originally Posted by ManManinc View Post
    What kind of Mileage do you get with John's kit?
    aprobably like any super or trbocharged engine - the more you push it the worse the mileage....
    CB42613, CB42577, DH29770 and counting...

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by 8Tech View Post
    I'm not quite understanding this!

    I sent you a set of stock M70 cams a couple of years ago to try. Did you not fit them?

    8Tech.
    You have a PM, might be me who have missunderstood something back then. They are the ones currently in the car.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ladislav View Post
    aprobably like any super or trbocharged engine - the more you push it the worse the mileage....
    True.

    Also I had a 3.45 diff, and compared to a stock Euro 3.15 my consumption was a little higher when we drove to the Swedish meeting together.
    he had 22mpg I had 17,1mpg.
    I suspect my diff is responsible for a bit of that difference, the rest is probably due to my current non-optimized engine mapping.
    I am fitting a 3.15 diff to my car within the next two weeks, so I should be able to see what difference that make.

    So yes, when driving normal the consumption will be as stock, when pushing it will be higher, but also much more fun
    Last edited by Noggie; 07-14-2012 at 04:24 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
    -Egil (my name)

    2012 ///M550xd touring
    1990 850Ia Hartge Supercharged.
    2004 M3 (sold)


  8. #58
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    A bit of a thread revival but I thought it needed some closure for future reference.

    Also I have not been very active on this forum in the past couple of years, the Facebook groups have more or less taken over my e31 fix

    Today. Almost 7 years after this story started I can finally say that I am done.
    It's been a long and troublesome journey to say the least, mostly to be able to get a proper tune for the engine, it can mostly be read about in this thread.

    Well, i was able to find a very good tuner somewhat local (120km from me), and today we made a tune that is safe to run without damaging the engine, and produces adequate power.

    Well I guess you want figures
    The cars M70 5.0 now produces 426 wheel HP, and 600nm of torque.
    Depending on how you want to calculate drive train loss, the engine produces between 470-490hp at the crank.
    I'm happy with this result, the car is plenty fast, and I know I'm not at risk of damaging my engine.
    -Egil (my name)

    2012 ///M550xd touring
    1990 850Ia Hartge Supercharged.
    2004 M3 (sold)


  9. #59
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    Jun 2008
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    Supercharged 850ci
    So do you consider John's tunes dangerous???

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by dragon850 View Post
    So do you consider John's tunes dangerous???

    John had a good tune for US cars, since that was made on the first prototype car built there, so any US car should not have any issue.
    Since I have a Euro car the initial attempts withe the US tune proved to be lean an underpowered.
    We figured out it needed a tune for that version, John never did a tune on a euro car, so I was running a guesstimate on my car.
    I got 3 attempts in 2009/2010, and then it was put on hold for various reasons (my diff exploded, overhauled the gearbox etc.).
    Some remote tuning attempt were done in 2014 using some emulators instead of burning new chips for each version, but time an other factors made this very inefficient. (i.e running one road not a dyno)
    At this point we thought we had a good AFR on the rich side and might have to tune the timing to get it perfect.
    Due to various reasons a proper dyno tune with John present was never done, location being a major reason.

    I will admit me and him has not spoken since July last year.

    In the end the best option for me was to find a local tuner who could do a proper tune for my car, and in February this year I found one.
    The guesstimate turned out to be very lean and not rich as we thought, and my tuner said the only thing that saved my engine from not melting the pistons was the low boost level. Also this latest guesstimate had only done 3000km.

    The idle map was way off, and so was the AFR in the whole rpm range.
    The guesstimate tune produced 414 wheel HP and 595nm.

    First the idle tune was fixed, the car runs so much smoother, and my starting issues on a warm engine appears to be gone.
    The tuner used a total of 8 runs to get me a good tune. First the benchmark tune, 3 runs to get the AFR right, 2 runs to check the various load maps and 3 runs playing with the timing.
    At the end the mapping was done by giving more fuel and dialed back the timing. The car actually sounds a lot better now, and even if we only gained 12 wheel HP I know my engine is having a much better life now.

    So to give my best answer to your question.
    If you have a US car, he has a good tune.
    If you have a different region car, I would either make sure the car can be tuned, or that he has got one done on another car.

    In any case I would not fit any kit (Johns or others) on any car without doing a dyno-run and have AFR and boost logged and verified.

    As for now, I have a good tune for a euro car that I paid for.

    For comparison this is the AFR charts on the right, left is torque.
    Red is the guesstimate, very lean, its around 13,5-14,3, and we thought it was at 11.0.
    Blue is the final tune.
    IMG_0627.jpg

    This is the HP chart.
    Not a massive power difference, but with the AFR now correct I can actually hear a massive difference in the way the engine runs, and its safe.
    The high torque in the bottom end is due to the automatic transmission and the dyno, its not making 700++nm at the low end.
    IMG_0628.jpg
    Last edited by Noggie; 04-25-2016 at 04:35 PM.
    -Egil (my name)

    2012 ///M550xd touring
    1990 850Ia Hartge Supercharged.
    2004 M3 (sold)


  11. #61
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    Congrats Egil. FINALLY !!!
    Did you also get rid of this annoying blow off noise?



  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by wokke View Post
    Congrats Egil. FINALLY !!!
    Did you also get rid of this annoying blow off noise?
    That noise was actually the blow off valve being stuck and what you heard was back pressure surge on the supercharger.
    I fixed that earlier by getting the blow off valve to work properly, I also removed all the pre-load washers on the blow off valve spring, and it works like a charm. now there is a subtile dump "pyjss" on occasions when releasing the throttle on hard accelerations.
    I also got some new hoses for the recirculation of the blow off valve air.
    All in all the car is now running great.
    I can also mention that the tuner said he heard ignition nock when running the car so it was not running well.
    The idle was running with an AFR of 16 which is crazy lean.

    Even if it cost me a 240km drive, 60l of fuel and 120 euros in ferries plus the price for the two hours he spent on the car, it's probably been some of the best money I've spent on the car in a long time

    He actually said that I could put on a bigger pulley, and we could get some more mid-range power. But looking at the power chart.
    I make stock 5.0 max power at 3300rpm, and match my old Hartge setup (276whp) at 3700rpm, I'm quite happy with the way the car runs now.

    And not only that Wokke, the car sounds much much better, the exhaust sound is lower, and most of the terrible drone is gone or greatly reduced, not sure I need anything done with the exhaust after all, at least it will only be a matter of some small additional glass pack's or mufflers.
    Last edited by Noggie; 04-26-2016 at 09:54 AM.
    -Egil (my name)

    2012 ///M550xd touring
    1990 850Ia Hartge Supercharged.
    2004 M3 (sold)


  13. #63
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    Super to hear the car is finally running like it should have a long time ago

  14. #64
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    1990 850i and 1970 2800C
    nice story from Egil... pitty it stops somewhere in 2016 ?
    Hello , i'm Barry from Belgium . I installed a Raptor supercharger on my '90 850 and got a mapping from a local shop. But no real good results. I already renewed all ignition parts ( rotors,caps,wires,coils,crankshaft sensors) but still no succes. Just ordered 2 new air flow meters to rule that out to.
    Perhaps we have a mapping problem…. so i wondered were to find help. Egil could help i suppose but does he is still around here ?
    Does Boosted Logic still exist ? I tryed to mail them…. so far no answer.

    sorry for all those questions…. i'm not looking for top performance , just a good running car with 6 psi.

    PS coincidence ? but i also blew my carter gasket just as Egil had....

    many thanks for replys !
    barry

  15. #65
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    Hey.

    Not much on the forums for the past years, mostly the facebook groups.

    But I got a tip that there was something going on in this old thread.

    Things have happened since 2016.

    I plan to do another tuning session, this time to get the load maps sorted out, I'm down to the finer details now, so I could choose not to do anything.

    In 2016 and -17 I worked with another owner in the US with a kit, in the end he got his car tuned properly on a dyno. We both learned a lot during this process.
    He had a higher boost kit, think he was up at 11 psi, so he increased his fuel rail pressure from the stock 3 bar to 4 bar to get enough fuel.
    Think he ended up with almost 500 WHp.

    I have been playing with the load maps a bit to get the car set up better, trying to find that optimal mix of power and consumption.
    Did a tour this year where a group of 8'ers did 2000+km, while on the road my car usually used 1l/100km more than the stock cars.
    I did overdo the fueling a bit in the high rpm so it ran very rich and started smoking a bit on some of the steep mountain passes.

    Performance wise I have don the 0-100kph sprint in 5 seconds flat with a 3.15 LSD diff. This winter I plan to rebuild it to a 3.45 so might shave off a little on that time. if I switch off the traction control fast and sudden acceleration will smoke the tires, have come sideways into traffic circles a few times.
    Once it starts spinning it won't stop before I'm doing close to 100kph. I left two black stripes for 100-150 meters on the road earlier this summer.

    Think Boosted logic shut down a couple of years ago.
    -Egil (my name)

    2012 ///M550xd touring
    1990 850Ia Hartge Supercharged.
    2004 M3 (sold)


  16. #66
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    great Egil to hear from you !
    I have stock fuel pressure but installed 300cc injectors.
    Do you use remapped chips still in the BOSCH ECU's 0 261 200 352 ?

    Can i "buy" from you your mapping ? Would be great interest to compare what we have …. i'm not specialist in it , but know some people who can program it.
    If you sent mi a email adress i can send you our mapping … if it tells you something and have time for it ?

    thanks !
    Barry
    prive@bvba-vandewalle.be

  17. #67
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    Egil , i replyed but waiting for moderator approval.... perhaps because i included my email adress ???

  18. #68
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    Talk with Ed (Dragon850)

  19. #69
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    Thanks cartoonz, i wait now for the 2 new air flow meters to do again a dyno run and see the results…. one advantage i have, is my son has a chip tuning shop nearby , so i can go on the dyno all day . Pitty our ECU's are a bit to "old fashion" for them….they work with the modern stuff.

  20. #70
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    Which is why you should definitely talk with Ed... unless you set the trim properly, you can make it run like a Swiss watch on the dyno and 3 days later it will all change. Ed went through this already, & probably has the most complete maps in existence for these cars. Probably save you a lot of time

  21. #71
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    i did try 2 times a private message to Dragon850 , but doesn't work. Perhaps one needs xxx posts here to be able ?

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belgiumbarry View Post
    i did try 2 times a private message to Dragon850 , but doesn't work. Perhaps one needs xxx posts here to be able ?
    PM replied

  23. #73
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    thanks alot Ed for the mail ! Hope we can work together , your help would be great !

  24. #74
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    Hello Egil, I want to send you a PM but the system doesn't let me. How can I contact you? Thank you.

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