I thought it was time I started a thread in this forum about my supercharer install.
I first got in contact with John in DC back in 2007 regarding the Supercharger kit he was developing and showed my interest.
Since John made this kit in his own garage in his spare time the development took some time.
In June 2009 I travelled to Washington DC and spent 5 days in the US Capitol where I picked up my S/C kit and met with John and several other people from the 8'er community in that area.
While there I got a ride in Marco's prototype car that the kit was developed on, and that car was really fast I believe it has 393whp.
Late June I get back home and start the work on my own 850.
Before I continue I would like to mention that my car was tuned by Hartge and had several changes to it to make it match the Alpina B12 5.0l, amog other things it has very different cam's than a stock car.
Requste made to Hartge on the cam spec's came back with "sorry we have no data on those parts".
At this point both me and John knew that making my car run would be a time consuming try and error process.
A first map attempt was sent with the S/C kit and after the 3 days of installing the kit it became obvious that the map was totally wrong, the car got so much fuel it almost drowned the engine.
The problem was found to be several map's in the DME chips and that the change was made in the wrong place on the chip.
At this time, autumn 2009 John had verified that stock M70 Euro and US cars could now get a bolt-on kit ready to run.
My car with my cams though still had a bit to go before it was mapped and ready to go.
At this stage things came to a hault because of winter storage.
I was albe to take the car out for a few days in November 2009 to test and dyno a new set of chips.
The car produced 345whp and 349ft-lbs of torque, but the mix was too lean so the car was put back into storage and we would continue when spring arrived.
March 2010 I got a new set of chips, deliberately made to run rich.
The car has tremendous low end power but appeared to loose power on top.
The consumption is terrible averaging 15.6mpg at cruise and 10.2mpg at mixed driving.
The Dyno showed that the low end power had increased 15-25whp over the last chip, but at 4300rpm and 308whp the curve levelled out and stayed flat to the limiter.
We believe that the timing was advanced too much for the higher rev band.
However the car is now just a little faster than a CSI.
I am currently awaiting map 4 where the timing will be returned to that of map 2 and the car will be given less fuel.
I should have this by the time I get back from my holiday late May.
New updates should be ready early June.
For thise with stock Euro and US M70 engines the kit is ready to go, just contact John in DC for pricing and information.
Last edited by Noggie; 05-08-2010 at 08:29 AM.
-Egil (my name)
2012 ///M550xd touring
1990 850Ia Hartge Supercharged.
2004 M3 (sold)
Hey Noggie, thanks for the the info and update!
How much would one of these potential kits cost? Do you have any pictures of it installed?
Current:
'03 E46 M3 - full bolt on
'95 E36 M3
Past:
'02 E39 M5
'94 E36 325is M-Technic
'91 E31 850i
I do not want to make any promises about the cost in here, so do not quote me on this.
I believe the price is about $9000, but like I said, don't quote me on this.
Contact John directly on smith001@itsystems.net
A stock 300hp M70b50 will produce about 390whp and 350ft-lbs of wheel torque.
A stock car produce about 250whp and 265ft-lbs of wheel torque.
You are looking at about 450hp and 400ft-lbs of engine power with the S/C.
Here are two pictures from the install in 2009.
-Egil (my name)
2012 ///M550xd touring
1990 850Ia Hartge Supercharged.
2004 M3 (sold)
Nice. Would be nice to get a M73 solution, but probably not enough of us around to be cost effective.
How's the ground clearance on those pipes? Many folks are lowered a bit. Looks like you've scrubbed the nose before a few times in those photos. Any concerns on scrubbing the piping on speedbumps, etc?
Thre might be both a M73 and a S70 version comming, but I think John need a car to make the prototype from.
I've had no issues with scrubbing the SC and piping, and we have a lot of speedbumps where I live, especially the small pesky once where large trucks, buses ect. dont feel the bump, but smaller cars do. and even these are no problem
Here is a crappy pictue of those bumps.
I believe that the SC itself is just infront of the front wheels, and thus not the part that is lowest on e car.
I've had no scrubbing issues and I have Eibach springs an Bilstein shocks on my car.
The marks you see on my car is from curbs, it you look at my signature picture you might see that I park with my front towards a flowerbed, sometimes i have parked to close and the curb rubbed against the underside of my bumper.
Last edited by Noggie; 05-08-2010 at 10:54 AM.
-Egil (my name)
2012 ///M550xd touring
1990 850Ia Hartge Supercharged.
2004 M3 (sold)
Great post Noggie, Please seal up those lower air boxes one day, With the SC's, They will Vacum everthing on the street, Thanks again for the post!
What kind of Mileage do you get with John's kit?
My car is not tuned right so it gets poor mileage.
The OBC is not indicating right anymore sinc the injectors are changed.
I visited a friend in a different city and the OBC said I was getting 26.1MPG, but when I filled her up and did the math It had really used 16.2MPG.
I believe Marco's car uses about the same as stock.
The consumption will be better than stock at cruise, but probably worse at inner city driving.
Mixed should come out about the same as stock.
-Egil (my name)
2012 ///M550xd touring
1990 850Ia Hartge Supercharged.
2004 M3 (sold)
cool beans, most of the miles I rack up on my car are from cruising so thats good.
Thread update.
My engine as of today.
Hartge camshafts had to go as they messed up my SC system.
Stock camshafts are now installed and I will start to re-assemble the engine.
Have/will make some cosmetic upgrades to the engine so that my engine compartment will look a lot better in a few days.
Throwing on an overspeed pully so the output is anybodies guess.
Will update when I have driven the car and provide a dyno sheet once tested.
-Egil (my name)
2012 ///M550xd touring
1990 850Ia Hartge Supercharged.
2004 M3 (sold)
ooo...really eager to see what the supercharger kit does when its overdriven.
Any clue as to how much overdrive you will be running? either by pulley dimensions, blower rpms for each pulley or % overdrive from the original pulley? Very exciting!
Good luck my friend. Keep us posted.
CB42366 - 1991 850i 6-speed. Brilliantrot & Black Nappa Leather
CD00144 - 1994 850CSi. Hellrot & Black Nappa Leather
My other projects:
Supercharged Tbirds, V8 Tbirds, V8 Mustang Convertible, Audi V8 Quattro & Audi S8
Hey crazy8, recall reading a thread, sorry don't remember which one, that an off the self supercharger already exisits for the 840. Run a quick search and you might find what you're looking for.
ESS makes it.
This will be great! It must be a bummer that it is such a long process. The results will be awesome though.
Do you know anymore about the S70 kit?
The Golden Rule of Wheels: Strong, cheap, light... pick two.
M Texture - MOTON - Recaro - FIKSE - Vorshlag - SWIFT - Lightwerkz - Rogue
Running 15% overspeed, which mean that I will enter overspeed at 5100rpm.
Not up there so much so I decided I wanted more low end power.
An estimate is around 450 Wheel HP.
There is a guy in Qwait that have a 25% overspeed pully.
He's car is faster than a chipped E60 M5.
Last edited by Noggie; 09-01-2010 at 10:27 AM.
-Egil (my name)
2012 ///M550xd touring
1990 850Ia Hartge Supercharged.
2004 M3 (sold)
I was thinking about this on my way to work this morning ....If I recall correctly from my last conversation with John the stock supercharger kit is set to 6psi. So with the 15% OD how much pressure do you think you will be pushing? I'm thinking around 8 or 9 PSi?
I dont even know if you have made these calculations...i'm just very curious oh, and you have any info on that car with teh 25% OD?
Last edited by CaifanSC; 09-01-2010 at 02:33 PM.
CB42366 - 1991 850i 6-speed. Brilliantrot & Black Nappa Leather
CD00144 - 1994 850CSi. Hellrot & Black Nappa Leather
My other projects:
Supercharged Tbirds, V8 Tbirds, V8 Mustang Convertible, Audi V8 Quattro & Audi S8
I believe the stock setup is about 7-7,5psi max boost.... but you don't have that boost before redline.
15% is about 1psi more, so I will be around 8psi.
The 25% car was modified about the same time as mine, all stock car with the same Stage II kit as me.
From what I know the car is a 90/91 850 4-speed auto.
With original setup he reported wheelspinn up to 45-50mph (70kph), and the car was really fast.
He then had a 25% overspeed pully made and he now has wheelspinn up to 100mph (160kph).
He did several runs against the E60 M5 and he took the M5 by a car length at 100mph (160kph). judging the rate he was going, he probably would have widened the gap had they continued.
To do that to an M5 he probably has closer to 550hp and 450-500ft.lbs of torque with that pulley.
I hope to have something like 500hp 400-450ft.lbs with the 115% pulley.
I also have a 3.45 rear diff so I should be faster than a stock euro as this has 3.15 diff.
My diff will also make me hit redline at about 180-186mph.... but I think I will get there really quick
So far I know of 3 cars with this kit.
Marco's "prototype", the one in Qwait and my car, not sure any other kits are sold.
-Egil (my name)
2012 ///M550xd touring
1990 850Ia Hartge Supercharged.
2004 M3 (sold)
...fwiw you want the 3:91 if you have'nt done any Major engine upgrades.
for the 3.15. and the 3.45 you can find datasheets at http://www.e31.net/technical.html as the 3.15 was fitted to the Euro M70 4-speed and the 3.45 was fitted to the Alpina 5.0, the US 4 speed came with a 3.64 final drive ratio.
All figures are at 6000rpm.
Euro 3.15. max speed 306kph/190mph.
Alpina 3.45 max speed just below 290kph/180mph (difference is 0.30, = ~10-12mph)
US 3.64 max speed just over 260kph/ 165mph (difference is ~0.20 = ~12-15mph)
3.91 well... based on this I would say you have to take off about another 20mph as the gear difference from the 3.64 to the 3.91 is 0.25.
Your top speed would probably be around 145mph.
The car with the highest theoretical top speed is the US 840 M60 5-speed auto. should run out of revs at about 325kph/over 200mph
Using this speed calculator, I got some slightly different figures when I put in the data for the 4-speed auto and various final drive ratios, and my rear tire dimensions. http://www.balsa.no/bil/calcs/gearcalc/#
Top speed at 6000rpm and 275/30 19" wheels (redline moved to 6400 in brackets)
3.91 = 160 mph (170mph)
3.64 = 172 mph (185mph)
3.45 = 182 mph (195mph)
3.15 = 198 mph (212mph)
not sure which to believe, the e31 page or the calculator, they may both be slightly off.
Last edited by Noggie; 11-30-2010 at 06:47 PM.
-Egil (my name)
2012 ///M550xd touring
1990 850Ia Hartge Supercharged.
2004 M3 (sold)
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