Vogtland Springs from JDM for $199

[Graham E39 528i]

Graham, I cant find bumpstops difference in realoem .... do you ?

Yes. For example the front suspension (on my car):



The bumpstop is item #11.


Non-sport 31331140140
Sport 31331138814

And for the rear suspension (on my car):



The bumpstop is item #5

Non-sport 33531091031
Sport 33531093094

Igor, you are lower than 'sport' so you must trim the 'sport' bumpstop by the amount the Vogtland spring lowers with respect to the 'sport' ride height. Or, trim the non-'sport' bumpstop by the amount the Vogtland spring lowers with respect to the non-'sport' ride height.

[NNY528I]

Yes. For example the front suspension (on my car):



The bumpstop is item #11.


Non-sport 31331140140
Sport 31331138814

And for the rear suspension (on my car):



The bumpstop is item #5

Non-sport 33531091031
Sport 33531093094

Igor, you are lower than 'sport' so you must trim the 'sport' bumpstop by the amount the Vogtland spring lowers with respect to the 'sport' ride height. Or, trim the non-'sport' bumpstop by the amount the Vogtland spring lowers with respect to the non-'sport' ride height.

This is all well and good but what is the actual difference in the design of these stops, are they actually shorter or are they made of a different compound. It may be improper to cut them if they are softer material.

[champaign777]

so what is the list of items for Sport update from NON Sport ?
struts/shocks
lowering springs
bumpstops
( mounts the same, right ? )

anything else ?

[Graham E39 528i]

so what is the list of items for Sport update from NON Sport ?
struts/shocks
lowering springs
bumpstops
( mounts the same, right ? )

anything else ?

You replace the perch rubbers, shorten the bumpstop, inspect the mount and replace if you see cracks or if the bearing is grungy (in the case of the front), and new nuts. That's about it.

I thought you said you were a BMW mechanic?

[NNY528I]

You replace the perch rubbers, shorten the bumpstop, inspect the mount and replace if you see cracks or if the bearing is grungy (in the case of the front), and new nuts. That's about it.

I thought you said you were a BMW mechanic?

again have you compared the bumpstops to confirm they are in fact shorter in height?

The point at which the suspension must stop travelling does not change because a shorter spring is installed, the travel is simply reducedand the damping effect increased. cutting the bump stop may in fact create many more problems than it solves.

[Graham E39 528i]

again have you compared the bumpstops to confirm they are in fact shorter in height?

The point at which the suspension must stop travelling does not change because a shorter spring is installed, the travel is simply reducedand the damping effect increased. cutting the bump stop may in fact create many more problems than it solves.

OK, the numbers I am going to give are for the i6 e39 rear suspension where the difference in ride height between standard and M-sport is 15mm (Bentley page 300-16)

BMW shortens the bumpstop in order to give you the sport package. Proof?

Looking at my notes from October of 2009, I have

Length of 'Standard' Bumpstop is 89mm
Length of 'M-Sport' Bumpstop is 70mm

So BMW has trimmed the bumpstop 19mm for a ride height reduction of 15mm.

If you use the Vogtland rear spring, which lowers the standard rear end by 1.2" (=30mm), a reasonable amount to trim off the 'Standard' bumpstop is 30mm, so the new length is 89mm - 30mm = 59mm

[champaign777]

Ok guys
reading many threads were people were talking bulhsit that VT springs will work with OEM struts/shocks ( just lifetime will be shorter bla bla bla )
and spending 10H job ( this is not about money heh ) i can say that this set up is not working
car landing on speed bumps like an old ship
thats it , nothing to add , VT lowering springs do not work with NON Sport struts/shocks

I will go with Koni Sport Yellow and VT springs - looks like ECSTuning has them in stock + i just bought new mounts + i will need sport bumpstops as well

BTW car looks very nice with lowering springs so i just cant do roll back for the stock suspension
LOL

[NNY528I]

Ok guys
reading many threads were people were talking bulhsit that VT springs will work with OEM struts/shocks ( just lifetime will be shorter bla bla bla )
and spending 10H job ( this is not about money heh ) i can say that this set up is not working
car landing on speed bumps like an old ship
thats it , nothing to add , VT lowering springs do not work with NON Sport struts/shocks

I will go with Koni Sport Yellow and VT springs - looks like ECSTuning has them in stock + i just bought new mounts + i will need sport bumpstops as well

BTW car looks very nice with lowering springs so i just cant do roll back for the stock suspension
LOL

how many miles on your oem non sport struts?

OK, the numbers I am going to give are for the i6 e39 rear suspension where the difference in ride height between standard and M-sport is 15mm (Bentley page 300-16)

BMW shortens the bumpstop in order to give you the sport package. Proof?

Looking at my notes from October of 2009, I have

Length of 'Standard' Bumpstop is 89mm
Length of 'M-Sport' Bumpstop is 70mm

So BMW has trimmed the bumpstop 19mm for a ride height reduction of 15mm.

If you use the Vogtland rear spring, which lowers the standard rear end by 1.2" (=30mm), a reasonable amount to trim off the 'Standard' bumpstop is 30mm, so the new length is 89mm - 30mm = 59mm

Then one should assume that the stops are firmer than the non sport stops in order to function over a shorter distance. I dont think trimming the non sport stops is a smart move as it removes protection. In 3 years I have never found any issues with the stock length bump stops causing an issue. I think you are better off to not cut them, or replace them with the sport stops.

[Graham E39 528i]

Then one should assume that the stops are firmer than the non sport stops in order to function over a shorter distance. I dont think trimming the non sport stops is a smart move as it removes protection. In 3 years I have never found any issues with the stock length bump stops causing an issue. I think you are better off to not cut them, or replace them with the sport stops.

Whatever. You really are a PITA. How bout thanking me for giving you the explanation. Never again.

[NNY528I]

Whatever. You really are a PITA. How bout thanking me for giving you the explanation. Never again.

Thanks for the explanation, now explain why they would make them shorter without making them harder. The car weighs the same amount, the forces are the same so why would they reduce the amount of force to stop the car during extreme suspension movement by simply shortening the stop.

You advocate that the stock stop be shortened yet do not have a complete understanding of the parts involved which is why I am asking about the firmness of the material.

I didn't cut mine and have had no issues at all, others have cut theirs with no apparent issues either, however that does not mean that the car is properly protected from hard hits. there have been several people with sever body damage due to strong suspension hits. Could they have been protected by proper length stops?

Why is being asked to support the position you are advocating such a problem? I would hate to see someones car damaged severely because I gave advice based on limited information and assumptions.

[Graham E39 528i]

Thanks for the explanation, now explain why they would make them shorter without making them harder. The car weighs the same amount, the forces are the same so why would they reduce the amount of force to stop the car during extreme suspension movement by simply shortening the stop.

Both sizes of bumpstop are made of a rubbery sponge, NOT kryptonite!

You advocate that the stock stop be shortened yet do not have a complete understanding of the parts involved which is why I am asking about the firmness of the material.

I do have a complete understanding, however, that you are an argumentative bore.

I didn't cut mine and have had no issues at all, others have cut theirs with no apparent issues either, however that does not mean that the car is properly protected from hard hits. there have been several people with sever body damage due to strong suspension hits. Could they have been protected by proper length stops?

I cannot be held responsible for your incompetency. Have you tried driving at length with 5 big men in the car and a full trunk?

Why is being asked to support the position you are advocating such a problem? I would hate to see someones car damaged severely because I gave advice based on limited information and assumptions.

Dude, think about it, shortening a rubber shock absorber makes it's spring rate larger, not smaller.

[champaign777]

i have 12-15k miles on all suspension including stocks / shocks
ride was good and very tight, just wanted to lower it due to 18" wheels

immediately with lowering spring and OEM struts/shocks i noticed this "landing" , "swinging" ...
not good ... this maybe good for some American cars but not for BMW

more "landing" , "swinging" on front , less on rear ... not happy BTW i hate to put aftemarket parts on my cars and try to use stock as much as possible

[Jason5driver]

i have 12-15k miles on all suspension including stocks / shocks
ride was good and very tight, just wanted to lower it due to 18" wheels

immediately with lowering spring and OEM struts/shocks i noticed this "landing" , "swinging" ...
not good ... this maybe good for some American cars but not for BMW

more "landing" , "swinging" on front , less on rear ... not happy BTW i hate to put aftemarket parts on my cars and try to use stock as much as possible

about bumpstops i agree with you guys , no need to cut, just buy OEM Sport

The swinging is probably from the non-sport struts.
They are not made for aftermarket lowering springs IMO.
I would sell the OEM non-sport struts and shocks and buy Koni Sports.

[champaign777]

I don't know maybe i missed something but no one who lowered his car said that front and rear bushing need to be preloaded under weight again

That is what I did last weekend and i can say my 2001 525i handles much better now
I love it again !
LOL

[Jason5driver]

I don't know maybe i missed something but no one who lowered his car said that front and rear bushing need to be preloaded under weight again

This is what I did last weekend and i can say my 2001 525i handles much better now
I love it again !
LOL

Yes.
That is what I did.
I re-tightened my front control arms (under the car's weight) after I lowered my car.

[champaign777]

I re-tightened all bushing :

front trust arms
front wishbone arms
rear wishbones
rear struts bushing

rear guiding arms were preloaded by alignment under weight

I really had big doubt to do it Jason , but no regret
LOL

[Jason5driver]

I re-tightened all bushing :

front trust arms
front wishbone arms
rear wishbones
rear struts bushing

rear guiding arms were preloaded by alignment under weight

I really had big doubt to do it Jason , but no regret
LOL

Yes, I also re-tightened the rear control arms as well.

[gnilson]

Ok, just so I am clear, when you retightened the bushings, do you mean you did not tighten them until after you preloaded them and then you tightened them, or that you tightened them, lowered the car and then retightened them, or that you tightened them, lowered the car, loosened and then retightened them.

Personally, I have a drive-on lift, so I left everything snug, lowered the car on the lift and then tightened all the new pieces. I did not retighten what I had not replaced as that does not make sense to me.

Thanks

Geoff

[Jason5driver]

Ok, just so I am clear, when you retightened the bushings, do you mean you did not tighten them until after you preloaded them and then you tightened them, or that you tightened them, lowered the car and then retightened them, or that you tightened them, lowered the car, loosened and then retightened them.

Personally, I have a drive-on lift, so I left everything snug, lowered the car on the lift and then tightened all the new pieces. I did not retighten what I had not replaced as that does not make sense to me.

Thanks

Geoff

1. replace suspension
2. loosen control arms
3. re-tighten(torque) the control arms with car on ground( or compressing suspension).
4. get an alignment

[champaign777]

we just talk about is it necessary to retighten bushing again if you lowering your car
lowering is not necessary a new suspension

[gnilson]

Well, its been 8 months and 8000 miles, so I thought it might be time for an update. In review, I installed a set of Vogtland springs with Monroe struts because this is my daily driver involving transporting of kids and the occasional client/colleague. In addition, after installing a slew of suspension bits over the past few months, I had a thrust alignment done to finish it all up.

Overall, I am very pleased with the ride. I have, however, had occasion to bottom out the stops going around corners with a dip in the middle. Somewhat unsettling but not particularly dangerous.

She has also settled down to around 1 finger gap from the tire to the fender lip. This is the perfect height in my book as it looks bitchin' without sacrificing too much driveability. On some of the more hammered roads in this area (rt. 80 in Patterson), however, it is quite loud with not enough rebound to comfortably cruise along at 80mph. If I was to do anything different, I would spring for some better adjustable shocks. I would also trim the bump-stops just a bit. As it sits however, it is not worth changing anything as otherwise it rides and drives great.

Oh, and this is running 245/50/16 tires, nothing real radical.

Geoff

[champaign777]

my sits very low as well now
and ya i trimmed my bump-stops as Crimbo Graham suggested
which solved some deep bumping issues
the only issue(?) i have is an alignment - my rear toe is -2 and Indy said he can't reduce it anymore
i will try to post some pictures
I

[gnilson]

my sits very low as well now
and ya i trimmed my bump-stops as Crimbo Graham suggested
which solved some deep bumping issues
the only issue(?) i have is an alignment - my rear toe is -2 and Indy said he can't reduce it anymore
i will try to post some pictures
I

My alignment came in within within 1/2 degree all around, handles like its on rails...

[bimmerfiver]

Then one should assume that the stops are firmer than the non sport stops in order to function over a shorter distance. I dont think trimming the non sport stops is a smart move as it removes protection. In 3 years I have never found any issues with the stock length bump stops causing an issue. I think you are better off to not cut them, or replace them with the sport stops.

Density = Mass/Volume

But what's that got to do with the price of tea or bumpstops in China?

The length of the bumpstop is dictated and impacted by the height of the spring/travel distance therein. Also, large fyi, what is nicknamed 'bumpstop' is referred to by BMW (via realoem) correctly as a, "additional shock absorber". See # 11 here:

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...56&hg=31&fg=10

You know very well that BMW offers two (2) versions, one for non-sport and one for the sport e39. If you have any deeper-rooted issues regarding the conspiracy theory of 'additonal shock absorbers' aka 'bump stops', and why there are two different lengths within (sport height versus no-sport) contact BMW North America at:

Customer Relations: 1-800-831-1117

Or send a self-addressed post card with 20 UPC symbols from Lucky Charms Cereal to:

BMW of North America, LLC
300 Chestnut Ridge Road
Woodcliff Lake, NJ 07677-7731


In the meantime, I'll adhere to common sense and endorse Graham E39 528's solid stance.

Trimming non-sport bumpstops is 101 stuff and while you're steadfast, "I didn't and my car is fine" might be suitable for you, it doesn't make it right. There are other conspiracy theories out there, like, "All brake rotors are the same" and I wish it were true so they could all cost $19.99 + shipping and handling. Not all forged tools and wrenches are equal, though I wish they were so Snap-On's quality would cost the same as Craftsmen. All metal ain't the same. All bump stops ain't the same.

And anyone who has an e39 I6 front end question? When you call into BMW North America, press 782-7917 (STA-RWAR) and your call will be directed to me.

[champaign777]

here we are - no ugly gaps anymore
lovely winter weather haha