ADS - INPA interface

[betaruce]

Gert and others, i hv received the cable. Good quality as usual. Pls give me sometime for review and testing. Hopefully i can post sth in few days time

[betaruce]

i hv given the cable a test as below. Photos later.

some background info first:

my car: 2000 Z3 3.0i, with both 20pin under the hood and 16pin under the steering wheel

computer: Fujitsu lifebook S series, WinXP, no serial port, so i use a PCMCIA card bought from Chinese web, change its com port to 1, and use jarda's patch (the following link) to target the IO address to the PCMCIA (as I don't know how to change the address to 03F8), and do diagnosis with INPA or GT1.
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1633825

previously I use gert's ADS interface to do diagnosis, using OBD mode in Ediabas.ini (not ADS mode which would fail), and computer settings as above, with no problem.

So today I try the new cable to connect to the 16pin socket under the steering wheel and test with INPA, the situation is:
- No ignition signal detected
- I can connect to the engine and gearbox module, but not airbag or abs

What do you guys think?

[rv8flyboy]

A thanks to Betaruce for taking the time to test the prototype for me!! He contacted me off the Forum already, but as I do not have much OBD experience I asked him to throw his findings out to the group here.


some thought I had:
I believe pin 1 is Ignition ON on the OBD 16 connector, you could check if this signal functions, also, does the Ign_ON LED change on the interface?? or is it always OFF, or ON??

Some folks here have built their own adapter, if so, how is your experience??

[betaruce]

A thanks to Betaruce for taking the time to test the prototype for me!! He contacted me off the Forum already, but as I do not have much OBD experience I asked him to throw his findings out to the group here.

some thought I had:
I believe pin 1 is Ignition ON on the OBD 16 connector, you could check if this signal functions, also, does the Ign_ON LED change on the interface?? or is it always OFF, or ON??

Some folks here have built their own adapter, if so, how is your experience??

The Ign LED on the ads interface is always off in my case

Btw gert hv you tested it on a bmw with only the 16pin socket (instead of dual socket like mine)?

[rv8flyboy]

Nope, as I have no access to a 16 pin only BMW. This is why I send it to you

if the LED stays off there is no signal, please check if the pin on the OBD connector in your car cycles correctly. I have heard many annecdotal remarks that the 16 pin OBD is 'neutered' when a 20 pin connector is available.

If memory serves me correctly, the OBD 16 (pre OBDII) was put in the cars to comply with American law which mandated all cars have a standard diagnostics port, however BMW's network was still geared towards the 20 pin ADS connector.

[KevinMullins]

I believe pin 1 is Ignition ON on the OBD 16 connector,

Correct.... but pin 1 is not always populated.... I had this problem when I first started messing with an OBD interface for my cars.
Might be some tidbits of use in this I wrote up - http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...&postcount=143
I never finished messing with the ADS side of things for the E36, but maybe it'll help with the IGN signal issue anyways.

I have heard many annecdotal remarks that the 16 pin OBD is 'neutered' when a 20 pin connector is available.

That's what I'm thinking...because the 20 pin certainly does have an IGN signal pin, but the OBD port may not. (both my cars are this way)

[stritarja]

OBD pin 1 is never populated in a BMW that has a 20-pin diagnostic port. The OBD ports in vehicles that also have the 20-pin have the connections shown for the E38 in the OBD plug pdf file below.

In later model BMWs (and Minis) pin 1 (ignition on) is functional in the OBD plug, as shown in the Mini OBD pdf.

Gert - I'd be happy to test your interface in my Mini if you'd like.

[betaruce]

thanks everyone for the reply. so I think we know the reason why Ign signal is persistently off.

But can this explain why I can assess the engine and gearbox module but not other modules like airbag or abs?

also are there successful stories on using the adapter on newer cars with only the 16pin socket? and on latest models that need D-can?

to KevinMullins: I am impressed by your write-up, altho i think i am not going to do the mod as described which is too complicated for me

[stritarja]

But can this explain why I can assess the engine and gearbox module but not other modules like airbag or abs?

Yes - if you have the 20-pin connector you must use it to access all modules.

[KevinMullins]

Yes - if you have the 20-pin connector you must use it to access all modules.

Agreed.
But if you do not have the OBD to 20 pin adapter harness, try jumpering the 20 pin socket like I've shown in the link above.
Pin 2 comes directly from the OBD port, pin 20 and 17 are the K lines needed to access all modules.
When the 20 pin port cap is on, only one of the K lines is connected to the OBD port. (when you take the cap off you will see pins on the underside)
So jumpering like I did gives you both K lines directly to your OBD port.

(I'd have to dig up my notes for much more detail than that)

[betaruce]

Agreed.
But if you do not have the OBD to 20 pin adapter harness, try jumpering the 20 pin socket like I've shown in the link above.
Pin 2 comes directly from the OBD port, pin 20 and 17 are the K lines needed to access all modules.
When the 20 pin port cap is on, only one of the K lines is connected to the OBD port. (when you take the cap off you will see pins on the underside)
So jumpering like I did gives you both K lines directly to your OBD port.

(I'd have to dig up my notes for much more detail than that)

do you mean we need to do the following temporarily setup? (I copy the image from KevinMullins writeup so we can discuss easier)
Jumper both pin 20 and 17 to pin 2 so we can redirect the two K lines to OBD port?

[KevinMullins]

do you mean we need to do the following temporarily setup? (I copy the image from KevinMullins writeup so we can discuss easier)
Jumper both pin 20 and 17 to pin 2 so we can redirect the two K lines to OBD port?

Correct.
That's what I had to do on my two cars if I wanted to use just the OBD port in order to access more modules.
It's just two short pieces of wire stripped on the ends.

But don't confuse this with vehicles that require a true ADS interface which is the topic of this thread. (quite honestly I'd have to re-read it all)
Yours being a 2000 model I would not think that it would need an ADS interface, but it's a Z3 which is based on the E36, so I'm not positive. (for instance my '99 E36 is ADS, but my '00 E39 is not, both cars have the 20 pin port under the hood)

If your 20 pin socket has pin#15 inside, and it has voltage going to it when the key is on...then you need an ADS interface and will have to go through the 20 pin port with a proper harness adapter. You can still do as I have shown, but you will still not be able to access certain things like the ABS module.
If you do not have pin #15, then you should be able to jumper as I have shown and go through just the OBD port and access everything.

If you are still missing the IGN signal, you'll need to sort that out first anyways.

What all exactly are you trying to use on your car? (adapters, harness, interfaces, etc)
I believe you have rv8flyboy's prototype that he just finished up, so I assume you are trying to go through just the OBD port....but what else are you using.

I'm by no means an expert, just some tidbits I picked up on while trying to sort some of my own troubles out.
And I have no experience playing with this stuff on newer cars with D-CAN and such.

[betaruce]

Correct.
That's what I had to do on my two cars if I wanted to use just the OBD port in order to access more modules.
It's just two short pieces of wire stripped on the ends.

But don't confuse this with vehicles that require a true ADS interface which is the topic of this thread. (quite honestly I'd have to re-read it all)
Yours being a 2000 model I would not think that it would need an ADS interface, but it's a Z3 which is based on the E36, so I'm not positive. (for instance my '99 E36 is ADS, but my '00 E39 is not, both cars have the 20 pin port under the hood)

If your 20 pin socket has pin#15 inside, and it has voltage going to it when the key is on...then you need an ADS interface and will have to go through the 20 pin port with a proper harness adapter. You can still do as I have shown, but you will still not be able to access certain things like the ABS module.
If you do not have pin #15, then you should be able to jumper as I have shown and go through just the OBD port and access everything.

If you are still missing the IGN signal, you'll need to sort that out first anyways.

What all exactly are you trying to use on your car? (adapters, harness, interfaces, etc)
I believe you have rv8flyboy's prototype that he just finished up, so I assume you are trying to go through just the OBD port....but what else are you using.

I'm by no means an expert, just some tidbits I picked up on while trying to sort some of my own troubles out.
And I have no experience playing with this stuff on newer cars with D-CAN and such.

I have rv8flyboy's ADS interface and it can do diagnosis on my car. However since I find that my car also has the OBD port, I would like to explore the possibility to use it for diagnosis (as despite the car has the pin#15 inside, it is still in OBD instead of ADS mode).
Besides, I want to maximize the use of the ADS interface to do diagnosis on newer cars as well

I think we do have quite a fruitful discussion about doing diagnosis on cars with dual sockets

To rv8flyboy: next I will try your cables in newer cars when i meet others in local bmw gatherings

[rv8flyboy]

in the mean time I have one more of these adapters ready, if you have an "OBD only" suitable car and have one of my adapters, let me know, maybe we can work out a deal.....

I ordered 5 more connectors and rubber covers, ultimately from BMW, the only source apparently. With a little luck they may even supply in 2012 as it takes a bit to get these, special order ya know.

For some strange reason ACS Tuning will only sell me 2 at the time, if i want 10, well, then I have to place 5 orders of 2 and incur five times 11 bucks shipping cost. Emailed the sales dept last week to see if I could combine shipment, and so far they have not seen fit to answer my emails, I must not be worthy a reply. Tried calling and all the guy could say is "da's the way it is, take it or leave it"

Happily, other places like DDM tuming are quite happy to give me the same price as ACS Tuning without limit restrictions... go figure...



oh yeah, my offer to convert a bone yard connector for you at a reduced rate still stands. So if ya wanna save and want the adapter, raid yer local bone yard

[mgoods50]

Good day Gentlemen,

I'm a highly experienced hands on DIY'er. I am apprehensive about my first posts being made with my hand raised-- but know I'll gladly repay my debts with time and efforts to help others as I've done elsewhere. I look forward to offering my experiences and knowledge, and maybe even saving fellow enthusiasts a few headaches

I have a T60, running XP Pro, which was purchased a couple of years ago pre-loaded with our software goodies. I made this purchase before realizing such help existed; I was used to dirtier hands. I've had some personal issues, and have just now been able to pick up this project.

I have one of Gert's ADS interfaces; I purchased it about a year ago or so. I've recently began (again) attempting getting INPA & DIS running.

I've made a fresh install of INPA / EDIABAS, v5.0.2 & v6.4.3. I've scrapped pursuing the DIS further for the moment (though it is installed), as I know I must first achieve success with INPA before moving on to DIS. Also included in the fresh install are NCS v3.1.0, WINKFP v5.1.0 (Coapi v3.9.0, Krapi v3.0.1).

My endless attempts to utilize the ADS interface have led me to the conclusion my main challenge is the lack of a 'true' serial port. I have a Quatech SSPXP-100 expresscard RS-232 serial adapter, and I am able to assign "com1" under "ports com & lpt) from hardware manager. Additionally, under the quatech properties (multiport serial adapters) I am able to utilize "force X1 clock mode". BUT- resources tab reveals I/O Range: 7cf8-7cff, IRQ 18.

From my research, I deduce this is my issue, as it is not a reflection of a "true" com1 serial port. I don't pretend to be well versed on these matters; all of my knowledge thus far has been self-taught.

If you agree, this is my issue. . . does anyone have experience or knowledge hacking the ThinkPad's BIOS in a manner to allocate the proper settings to my expresscard adapter? That is-- if that should be my next course of action.

I welcome comments, questions, suggestions and the like. Please point out any errors.

Thank you in advance-- This board is truly an invaluable assembly of great enthusiasts!

in the mean time I have one more of these adapters ready, if you have an "OBD only" suitable car and have one of my adapters, let me know, maybe we can work out a deal.....

I ordered 5 more connectors and rubber covers, ultimately from BMW, the only source apparently. With a little luck they may even supply in 2012 as it takes a bit to get these, special order ya know.

For some strange reason ACS Tuning will only sell me 2 at the time, if i want 10, well, then I have to place 5 orders of 2 and incur five times 11 bucks shipping cost. Emailed the sales dept last week to see if I could combine shipment, and so far they have not seen fit to answer my emails, I must not be worthy a reply. Tried calling and all the guy could say is "da's the way it is, take it or leave it"

Happily, other places like DDM tuming are quite happy to give me the same price as ACS Tuning without limit restrictions... go figure...



oh yeah, my offer to convert a bone yard connector for you at a reduced rate still stands. So if ya wanna save and want the adapter, raid yer local bone yard

Gert, this is a little OT perhaps- but is there any reason one couldn't permanently install your ADS interface to the cars diagnostic port? I've never closely examined the cap, but do remember it does contain some circuitry.

My idea is to relocate the diagnostic port to inside the vehicle, perhaps the glovebox. I've read there are some communication issues with longer cable lengths.

Perhaps extending the factory wiring via a modified cap, which terminates with a serial plug in the glovebox? (Which is exactly what I just typed, using different words- ha ha)

I would much prefer sitting in the car than leaning over the raised hood, and it's another sort of personalization I can make to the car.

[rv8flyboy]

you are correct the SSP-100 settings u indicate don't work out of the box

check back a few pages here, there is a utility that allows patching the ADS32.dll file to allow for other than standard addressing. I have tested this on my SSP-100 installation on the T61 and it appears to work.

the SSP-100 can be set to the correct IRQ and HW address, I have done this on a T61 several times. I think I wrote how a bit ago here. The SSP-100 settings are NOT in the bios, in the bios you have to make sure there is no conflicting Serial port active. Best to disable because unless u have a docking station you have no accessible serial port anyway. So no hacking of the bios is necessary other than switching off possible serial ports. The SSP-100 software wont pick the standard serial port by default as too many folks complained about lock-up's due to port conflict (due to not disabling the onboard serial in the bios).

you could leave the adapter connected, HOWEVER, the standard cap connects one pin to 12 volt (L line I believe) and the other to ground (K line?)

I know of folks who never had this cap, just be aware that certain diagnostic operations could stall your engine, so if u try these when u are driving....

I am planning on doing the same but I will probably use a Molex connector and still short out the correct pins. But as my seat has a memory module with all the signals, thats where I plan to tap in.
let me know if you need more specific info...

[rv8flyboy]

@MGOODS50

I put a quick 'n dirty guide together on the steps I do to install the SSP-100. Lemme know how this works out for ya.

G

[shadowpuck]

thank you for the writeup; that'll be a big help to folks using the quatech card.....

[rv8flyboy]

Anybody here tried the two computer system approach where one has a cheapo laptop that only has to run IFHserver and then a heavy weight computer/laptop (lotsa mem and proc power) that runs the VMware image connected via a wired or wireless LAN??

I played with this the other weekend. Now, if only I could find a SingleBoard Computer that would run XP, has a NIC and a serial port, we could make our own YellowHead functional lookalikes.

be great at the moment, it is cold in the garage, install the cheapo laptop, then go back in the house and look at the error codes from the sitting room.

[shadowpuck]

Anybody here tried the two computer system approach where one has a cheapo laptop that only has to run IFHserver and then a heavy weight computer/laptop (lotsa mem and proc power) that runs the VMware image connected via a wired or wireless LAN??

I played with this the other weekend. Now, if only I could find a SingleBoard Computer that would run XP, has a NIC and a serial port, we could make our own YellowHead functional lookalikes.

be great at the moment, it is cold in the garage, install the cheapo laptop, then go back in the house and look at the error codes from the sitting room.

i had the same idea; hadn't had a chance to implement it.
if possible, i'd like to know how you configured this. i started to research this but got distracted......

[mgoods50]

rv8flyboy-
Thank you for posting that guide. Further research has pointed me in the direction of windows acpi management, as ALL of my devices resources are configured automatically. I cannot find an option of disabling this, short of some loose references to re-installing the OS, and possibly un-checking that option, which leads to all sorts of functionality issues as well as the prerequisite of having on hand every driver. Even then, I've not found a definitive source which confirms this will enable me to manually configure resources.

I'm not quite sure where to go from here- it seems my hands are tied by windows better judgement, and a lack of control. Sort of like my car being bridled by an automatic transmission, ha ha.

Am I on the right track?

Thanks in advance to any who have the tech skills and knowledge to help out!!!

I believe I've found my answer. I guess OBDI / ADS is impossible. I was convinced this was something that could be done. I don't like being defeated

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/315278

[rv8flyboy]

@mgoods50

Send you a PM as I did not have problems setting up two T61's so I am curious now.

I assume you are running XP??

On each of the laptops I reinstalled the operating system from scratch so maybe that is why I did not run into the ACPI issue. When you bought the preinstalled laptop what diagnostics interface did they say you could use as the T60 does not have a serial either?

why not get rid of the Existing HAL and install a regular PC HAL, i don't see the fact that I have/can assign my own interupts as a problem.
It looks like that can be done without re-installing the operating system on XP.

[mgoods50]

rv8flyboy, and those interested

I am in the process of doing just that. I've managed to get the machine up and running, and am now in the process of deciphering the resource conflicts. No wireless, and no LAN yet, but I DO HAVE THE CORRECT IRQ, and I/O assigned to the (real) COM1 QUATECH CARD!!!!

Hurray!

I'm very excited to have achieved this- I know it's probably not a big deal for a lot of users more experienced than myself, but I've learned a lot the past few days. I also feel confident in a short time I'll actually be able to hook up to my OBDI cars!!!!

I'll keep everyone posted, and submit my findings via a nice .pdf writeup when I've confirmed all the details.

PS- on the laptop purchase, I received some interfaces which adapted from OBD to ADS, as well as a USB adapter. They are currently in storage, about 800 miles away- so I don't have any specific information. Once I've retrieved the storage contents, I'll likely offer some of the misc. parts to those who may have a need for them- or at the very least offer them for loan (assuming they are decent quality, which I dont even remember).

[rv8flyboy]

That is great news!!

When i did a fresh install on the T61, I downloaded all the latest drivers off IBM website. I had no conflicts, possibly because most of the drivers had some sort of installation program with them????

I did this for XP (and Win7, to see how VMware/DIS runs on that platform)

Maybe updated drivers may solve your conflicts, at least some of them.

Please keep us posted on the progress

[mgoods50]

The quest continues. . .
Upon attempting conflict resolution, I inadvertently made a change resulting in my (temporary) ability to over-ride windows better judgment *ha ha*.

I've restored to factory state, uninstalled, reinstalled drivers, so many times since my last post I'm surprised the laptop still powers on. I cannot recreate the conditions under which I was able to manually configure the resources- that option remains greyed out. Sadly, when I achieved the previous success I was very sleep deprived- and cannot remember specifically what I did- or at least anything I did differently from what I've re-done a dozen times since

I am convinced there's just no point to think about INPA, or DIS- until one successfully configures PCI expresscard to communicate like a true serial port. It is obvious from others findings this fundamental importance lies significantly in the ADS / OBDI arena.

I intend to figure this out, and make the information available to others freely. There must be a way to force a decent machine- (t60, win xp pro, 2g ram etc, core2, quatech expresscard serial) to act like it has a serial port.

I continue to research registry changes, power management options etc., but I've found nothing yet which gives me success. I'm certainly no expert- so if anyone out there knows if this is possible- please chime in!

Am I on the right track considering registry edits? At this point, I'm willing to reduce the machine to simply diagnosing. I am prepared to forgo other functionality, like hibernation, or a working LAN connection, to achieve success with configuration on COM1 - serial port / expresscard.

Any thoughts?