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Thread: ADS - INPA interface

  1. #1
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    ADS - INPA interface

    UPDATE: BATCHPCB NO LONGER SUPPLIES THE CIRCUIT BOARD!!

    If you really want just the circuit board, you can email me directly at: rv8flyboy at gmail d0t com and I will send you the circuit board, programmed chip, and the drawings for the old $35 including shipment.

    as this is an older thread I do not watch it as frequently, if you have questions, please either email me directly or send me an email so I can answer your question on the board here as I don't seem to be notified anymore when something is posted here.!!

    Thanks

    Gert

    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _______________________________


    I decided to get a small production run made of a circuit board I designed to connect my DIS and INPA to a 20 pin diagnostics connector. The board was designed so it would fully fit inside the 20 pin connector.

    If u are interested in just an ADS interface and want to have a version like mine, u have three options at the moment.

    u can order your own board from BatchPCB, here is the link to my board: http://batchpcb.com/index.php/Products/29433. BatchPCB requires u become a member first but that's free. I will send u the schematic, wiring diagram and a programmed chip, all included in the price BatchPCB charges, whch is around $25 + S&H.




    Alternatively, I can make u a kit for about 55 to 60 dollars depending on response I get so I can make a group buy of parts,
    here are the parts u will receive, I can solder the two SMD chips on the board by request:




    I also can provide a fully tested and functional unit for $100. Something to consider if u don't have a working DIS or INPA system yet as it is so much easier knowing your interface is working when u try and set up DIS or INPA.
    Last edited by rv8flyboy; 02-14-2011 at 11:48 AM. Reason: BatchPCB no longer supplies the bare circuit board

  2. #2
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    Thank you for sharing those information.

    Mine also has 20 pin connector and I am searching for a deceive like this

    Some questions If don`t mind

    In your INPA installation did you choose ADS instead of OBD?
    Did you try DIS?
    does it sense battery voltage?
    Also the link is not working would you plz update it

  3. #3
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    Dunno why the link does not work... try this one:
    http://batchpcb.com/index.php/Products/29433

    Yes, I choose ADS in ediabas.ini.

    I use both INPA and DIS, but DIS really is my mainstay as there is not much for the E32 platform in INPA and I have to scrounge bits and bobs from other cars to make it work. DIS is my mainstay, I use that for about all troubleshooting on our E32's and E34.

    If u mean with 'sense battery voltage' to mean: in INPA it displays correctly the black round circles that indicate "Battery" and "ignition ON", then yes, that works correctly in INPA for me. In other words the RING (pin 9 - power on)) and DSR (pin 6 - Ign-ON) are fully functional

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by rv8flyboy View Post
    Dunno why the link does not work... try this one:
    http://batchpcb.com/index.php/Products/29433

    Yes, I choose ADS in ediabas.ini.

    I use both INPA and DIS, but DIS really is my mainstay as there is not much for the E32 platform in INPA and I have to scrounge bits and bobs from other cars to make it work. DIS is my mainstay, I use that for about all troubleshooting on our E32's and E34.

    If u mean with 'sense battery voltage' to mean: in INPA it displays correctly the black round circles that indicate "Battery" and "ignition ON", then yes, that works correctly in INPA for me. In other words the RING (pin 9 - power on)) and DSR (pin 6 - Ign-ON) are fully functional
    I meant in DIS if your deceive could not sense voltage correctly it could not detect your car and you should choose it manually

    Again thank you for sharing these information.

  5. #5
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    An ADS interface can only detect the presence or absence of voltage, i.e a logic level for the Power On and Ignition ON.

    now, various modules will tell, in a digital way the actual battery voltage.

    My ADS interface correctly transfers the Power on (battery voltage present), and Ignition ON (KL15 active) if ediabas,ini is set for ADS.

    for my E32 and E34 I choose manually anyway always. Don't have a later car to try it on.


    Where in Tokyo? I lived in Tokiwadai....
    Last edited by rv8flyboy; 04-14-2010 at 05:59 PM.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by rv8flyboy View Post
    An ADS interface can only detect the presence or absence of voltage, i.e a logic level for the Power On and Ignition ON.

    now, various modules will tell, in a digital way the actual battery voltage.

    My ADS interface correctly transfers the Power on (battery voltage present), and Ignition ON (KL15 active) if ediabas,ini is set for ADS.

    for my E32 and E34 I choose manually anyway always. Don't have a later car to try it on.


    Where in Tokyo? I lived in Tokiwadai....
    Oh really so you use also manually
    I was searching the web to find out why it can not detect mine automatically I thought it was my interface mine is 1999 E46.

    Is it Tokiwadaira in chiba (常盤平) little far from me I am living west of Tokyo if you know there, near Choufu station. Are you non-Japanese?

  7. #7
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    Yes, I am Dutch....
    I always loooved to go to Akihabara to get my parts...

    Tokiwadai is in Itabashi-ku, 4 or 5 stops from Itabashi station, I forget the line name. I very much enjoyed living there. My 2nd son was born there. So many good memories.



    Quote Originally Posted by jimjavad View Post
    Oh really so you use also manually
    I was searching the web to find out why it can not detect mine automatically I thought it was my interface mine is 1999 E46.

    Is it Tokiwadaira in chiba (常盤平) little far from me I am living west of Tokyo if you know there, near Choufu station. Are you non-Japanese?
    Last edited by rv8flyboy; 04-15-2010 at 09:22 AM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by rv8flyboy View Post
    I always loooved to go to Akihabara to get my parts...
    I though that it was a little strange to see someone near Akihabara wheeling a washer/dryer onto the subway.

  9. #9
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    U thought a washer 'n dryer was strange near Akihabara???

    I've seen them shoehorn what appeared to be the sawed off back end of a car into the subway, still trying to figure out how in the flying fadoodle that went through the turn stiles...

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by rv8flyboy View Post
    U thought a washer 'n dryer was strange near Akihabara???

    I've seen them shoehorn what appeared to be the sawed off back end of a car into the subway, still trying to figure out how in the flying fadoodle that went through the turn stiles...



    Yeah you can see such scenes there also half of the customers are non-japanese (Gaijins)
    I love Akihabara but recently I buy most of goods by internet
    Only go to Akihabara for selecting and testing them. Oops If you need DSI cheap games nowhere than Akihabara deserves to go

  11. #11
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    Yes, even Akihabara suffers from the internet, and yes, beaucoup de Gaijins runing around there too....

  12. #12
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    hello, is the ADS kit offer still available? i would want to order one.
    thank you

  13. #13
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    I would like to buy a pcb + programmed chip for me to assemble myself.
    edit: Just ordered from batchpcb. When do you think I will receive it?
    Last edited by dme88; 04-25-2010 at 01:35 PM.

  14. #14
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    DME88, DICE66, please send me an email to rv8flyboy at gmail dot com

    I just found out batchpcb does not actually tell me who bought it. Batchpcb takes about 3-4 weeks for a circuit board.

    DME88, as soon as I have your address I will pop the drawing, pictures and chip in the mail to you!!

    DICE66, yes still available, shoot me an email with what u would like, kit, complete, etc.. I have one complete/tested ready at the moment

  15. #15
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    For those of you who have been waiting, I received a new batch of boards in and should be sending out kits and completed units starting this week.

  16. #16
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    I have made some modifications, the unit now also can do OBD through the 20 pin connector and will work with SSS-Progman in OBD mode.

    I have 2 completed units ready to go if anybody is interested, cost still $100 plus $10 shipping worldwide for a assembled+tested unit...


    One enterprising sould has even made his own adapter out of and old diag connector out of a junker and an OBD plug so it will also fit the OBD connector for him

  17. #17
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    so your latest revision of the cable works with inpa and other apps? can do programming for all boxes and just normal error code clearing and setting changing? if so, im interested in this one, tired of those different kind of cables and adapters etc...

  18. #18
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    Yes, my latest revision of the 20 pin interface does ADS, OBD and has a switch for manual Service Interval reset .

    It always worked with INPA, EDIABAS as well as DIS/GT1 in ADS mode, to accomodate newer cars that can do coding through the 20 pin diagnostics connector, I have updated the firmware so now in OBD mode you can use it with sss/ProgMan and do coding.

    What boxes it can talk to will largely depend on the software you are using. That is true not just for my adapter but for pretty much all adapters out there as the adapter is in the end a protocol translator that translates between, in my case, RS232 and K and L lines.

    I designed my interface so I would not need any other cables, like you I had a trunk full of adapters where my need really was just a 20 pin on one end and a rs232 at the other end, plug one end in the diagnostics connector, plug the other end in the computer and fire off the software. No more missing serial cables cause my kid needed one for his computer, etc

    I added the manual reset switch because i did not want to drag my computer out whenever I did a oil change on one of my cars or buy one of these contraptions the short two pins out for me on the diagnostics connector for a few seconds...

    If you are interested, let me know, email me at rv8flyboy@gmail.com

  19. #19
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    More updates

    There is an updated programmed chip available to improve on the OBD functionality.

    If u bought my interface and would like to receive the upgrade, you can email me at rv8flyboy at gmail dot com



    Gert

  20. #20
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    Hello rv8flyboy,

    I come from bimmernut and genfreak told me about your stuff.

    I'm interested for a full unit. Does it work with Vista and Belkin USB to Serial Adapter? It has become a nightmare to find a working laptop with serial port.

    I live in Belgium? Does your interface work on a european E36 M50 and E34 M40(yea don't laugh ) Both have a 20 Pin Connector under the Hood. I have a 1987 E30 M20 with a 15 pin connector but I guess that's a complete dinosaur

    I bought carsoft and a chineese interface but it cannot read any modules at all.

    So if I buy your interface will I be able to talk to my cars?

    Cheers bro. Your skills inspire my respect!

  21. #21
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    1998 328is
    bump for this! received mine today, this thing is much better than the Chinese garbage you'll find elsewhere. professionally built and packed very well. thanks gert!

  22. #22
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    '00 E46 323 Convertible
    hello rv8flyboy,
    http://batchpcb.com/index.php/Products/29433

    I can not find your board here???

    Is you product working with siemens ms40.1 (e34 M50B20 vanos '95) including live data??
    Last edited by Djelebov; 02-09-2011 at 08:55 AM.

  23. #23
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    The link no longer works for several reasons

    * the board was upgraded to include the OBD upgrade.
    * BatchPCB would not provide me with the info neccesary to be able to send the drawings and software and that of course is a huge problem.
    * I heard complaints about long delivery times. I have ended up sending circuit boards out from my own supply to folks who paid and waited for 8 weeks. If I have to do that, it is easier to make a small packet with board, chip and diagrams and not let BatchPCB create a bad name for me.


    My board does work with my '95 E34 540/6sp, non Vanos M60 engine, live data will depend on the software used, but, I do get some live data with DIS from the 540.

    In the end, if the car has the 20 pin round connector it should work.

    I have heard of some enterprising souls who got spare 20 pin connectors from the junkyard and made their own 20 pin to 16 pin adapter (reverse of what generally can be had commercially, i.e. 16 pin to 20 pin adapter).
    anybody know a source for these 20 pin round sockets BMW uses?? (not the plug) If so, shoot me a PM

    ADS and the need for real serial ports.

    The one question I receive frequently is “why doesn’t your interface work with a Serial to USB adapter?”

    The truth is, it does work with a serial to USB adapter, BUT ONLY IN OBD MODE. Why is this?

    If one looks at the history of ADS, one will find that it was designed in the good old DOS operating system and slow computers days. To eek out a modicum of speed a method was used called Direct Hardware Access [DHA]. So in case of the serial port, the software would directly talk to the computer address 0x3F8 and would listen for incoming characters by looking at Interrupt Request [IRQ] #4. IRQs are like semaphore flags, when a character is received by the computer, the flag is raised, in this case flag #4, and a program can watch for this and process the character.

    So the old original software used by BMW, directly accesses a computer serial chip with the address 0X3F8 and uses IRQ 4 to show there is a character.

    ADS also uses 2 lines to talk, called the K line and the L line. Which line to use is controlled by using one of the RS232 handshake lines such as DTR, etc. Strobe the handshake line high and communication is via K line and strobe it low and communications is via the L line. This is pretty well described in a document called ADS_DOCU.pdf that floats around on the internet.

    USB, by definition, and in principle, did away with handshake lines, ergo, strobing, using the L line, became much more cumbersome. Now, not all modules use the L line, so, in a false sense of security, one finds that some modules talk just dandy in ADS mode, through the 20 pin ADS connector, and frustratingly, others won’t. Murphy’s Law will predict that the module u desperately want/need to talk to requires the L line to wake up.

    OBD mode did away with the strobing and line switching and only uses the K line, so using a USB adapter is possible.

    If one uses the, shall I say, classic model of XP or Windows 7, Ediabas and INPA, an Operating System emulator such as Vmware with an image of DIS. One will quickly find that the software one relies on is the good old BMW software, or is based on it, that needs a real serial port to be able to talk ADS. USB adapters need not apply. For all the reasons stated above.

    Now, u say, my SuperSlick USB adapter resides on Comm 1 when I check it in the Control Panel.
    Yeah, it does, BUT IN NAME ONLY. In simple terms windows uses a layer of indirection. This means that there is a table that at one side has the names “Comm 1” through “Comm 255”.At the other side are the software routines called drivers that do the actual talking to the hardware. So if your laptop, computer, does not have a REAL serial port, when u install the drivers for your USB adapter, it will find that Comm 1 is the first free entry in the look-up table and will call itself proudly Comm 1. Yeah, BUT IN NAME ONLY.

    Just like windows lets you rename drive letters, it will let you rename Comm ports, does that mean your physical drive changed, Nope!! Ergo, you physical comm port also did not change. Furthermore, because the USB port is software driven and flexible it is assigned a high IRQ number which is a software IRQ as opposed to a physical semaphore flag IRQ set by the original serial port hardware.

    So, you are running the old DOS derived software on XP that is trying to talk to address 0x3F8 and is looking for that IRQ (semaphore flag) #4. It is not going to find it and as such ADS won’t work. It does not know the name “Comm 1”, all it knows is that it was brought up looking for 0x3F8 and IRQ #4, whatever we would like to call that.

    Moral of the Story:
    IF you think you are in need of an ADS capable adapter, get one with a real serial connector/plug and attach it to computer with a real serial port. I have bought IBM T23s for 60 and Dell C640s for 120 dollars from places such as eBay and CraigsList. If u just need a computer in your garage, consider an even cheaper (free??) cast-off desktop…. As long as they have a real serial port…

    It is important to realize this is a restriction that not only applies to my interface, but pretty much to any interface that wants to use, or advertises the use of, DIS, INPA and Ediabas in ADS mode. ProgMan/SSS already is OBD only. Could a USB driver be written to handle all these tasks, I guess it could, but the market is so small, I don’t think it is commercially viable.

    The only adapters that I have heard off that work are PCMCIA adapters such as the Quadtech SSP-100.
    I have not heard yet of ExpressCards that work (consistently) in ADS mode.
    I have heard of no USB adapter that works with ADS using both the K line and L line.

    IMPORTANT!
    If you have a laptop that appears to have no physical serial port connector, but you can buy a docking station that has a serial port connector for it, there is a high likelihood that your laptop already does have a serial port chip in the 0x3F8 location with IRQ 4.
    This chip may well be activated in the BIOS at all times.
    When this happens, no matter what you throw at it, your SuperSlick PCMCIA adapter WILL NOT BE ABLE to use the 0x3F8 address space and IRQ 4 as it is already taken by the operating system and you card will appear to not function with DIS, INPA, Ediabas, et all.. You will need to go into the BIOS and disable any onboard, integrated, device that is already using 0x3F8 and IRQ 4 to have even a chance to use your SuperSlick adapter.

    So, this is my story, in simple terms, and I am sticking with it.

    P.s.
    Why do sellers tout their USB stuff as ADS capable??

    Well, That is a slight of hand … err… words trick

    The round 20 pin diagnostics connector is sometimes also referred to as the ADS connector. If one sells an USB to OBD interface, and attach to it an adapter that converts the 16 pin flat to a 20 pin round connector, one can plug into the ADS connector. See, we do ADS also, more sales opportunities were created with this sleight of words play.

    Nein Nein Nein!!!

    Just because u can plug into an ADS connector in the car it does not mean you can talk the ADS talk by using both the K and L lines.
    Last edited by rv8flyboy; 02-10-2011 at 05:49 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  24. #24
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    rv8flyboy, thank you for the explanation. I have one desktop PC with 2 serial ports which I can move to my garage. The software I intend to use is Inpa 5.03 and GT1, but here in Bulgaria I can download any other software/version easily.

    So, how can I buy your schematic, wiring diagram and your programmed chip???
    Last edited by Djelebov; 02-11-2011 at 02:14 AM.

  25. #25
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    Well, certainly, u can

    same old $25 plus $10 shipping. I am waiting on new circuit boards. They should be in the beginning of next week (I hope)

    Those were two individual posts, only the top half was ment for you, the bottom half was a general statement made at a different time, somehow BimmerForums kept merging them for me whenever I separated them
    Last edited by rv8flyboy; 02-11-2011 at 10:44 AM.

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