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Thread: Cooling System Bleeding

  1. #76
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    Which sensor is the one sending the signal to the cluster in regards to the temp? This way i know what to follow.. Thanks again

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by NarlyM3 View Post
    Which sensor is the one sending the signal to the cluster in regards to the temp? This way i know what to follow.. Thanks again
    i believe it is in the side of the radiator, Part number 6 in this diagram

    >'97 528i, 200000 miles, Hella Xenons, 17" Stilauto wheels, Vogtland Drop Springs, Dynomax Race Muffler, Homelink, 540 brake upgrade, 15mm spacers >'65 & '74 MG Midgets BFC OT Lego Club #48 Manual conversion in process!!!



  3. #78
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    There is no sensor on the radiator.. Thats something my e36 m had bit not this 2003 540.. Only sensors are on the waterpump housing there's two.. And one on the lower hose. Remember this is a car with the electric water pump. Thanks again

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by NarlyM3 View Post
    There is no sensor on the radiator.. Thats something my e36 m had bit not this 2003 540.. Only sensors are on the waterpump housing there's two.. And one on the lower hose. Remember this is a car with the electric water pump. Thanks again
    now that I know what car this is for here is the info you need,

    http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...67&hg=11&fg=35

    either Part number 12 in this diagram,



    or number 9 in this one

    http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...35&hg=11&fg=35
    >'97 528i, 200000 miles, Hella Xenons, 17" Stilauto wheels, Vogtland Drop Springs, Dynomax Race Muffler, Homelink, 540 brake upgrade, 15mm spacers >'65 & '74 MG Midgets BFC OT Lego Club #48 Manual conversion in process!!!



  5. #80
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    12 was swapped out with the old one and it's still the same, gonna go get a new 9 tomorrow and see if that's bad.. But then I don't see how a sensor would go bad after it being swapped from one housing to another..? Thanks

  6. #81
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    For those who wonder about the coolant passages of an M52 engine...

    As I already mentioned in this cooling overhaul for my 1998 528i:
    http://www.bimmerboard.com/forums/posts/199986

    -------
    I recently changed my Tstat seals and for my curiosity, decided to probe the coolant passages using electrical wire and my finger!
    I confirmed the coolant flow as follows:
    - The WP circulates fluid from solid orange line from engine and solid blue line from UPPER Radiator Hose ---> dotted blue line (behind the thermostat) into the WP itself. This brings cool fluid into engine.
    - Then hot coolant builds up in the engine block and comes out in the dotted purple line ---> solid purple line into the upper rad hose.

    - There is no direct connection between #1 (blue) and #2 (purple) areas.
    - So air trap behind the tstat is a distinct possibility in the M52 engine.

    Just some tidbit about the M52 engine for those with curious mind...

    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by cnn; 12-16-2010 at 11:26 AM.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by cnn View Post
    For those who wonder about the coolant passages of an M52 engine...

    As I already mentioned in this cooling overhaul for my 1998 528i:
    http://www.bimmerboard.com/forums/posts/199986

    -------
    I recently changed my Tstat seals and for my curiosity, decided to probe the coolant passages using electrical wire and my finger!
    I confirmed the coolant flow as follows:
    - The WP circulates fluid from solid orange line from engine and solid blue line from UPPER Radiator Hose ---> dotted blue line (behind the thermostat) into the WP itself. This brings cool fluid into engine.
    - Then hot coolant builds up in the engine block and comes out in the dotted purple line ---> solid purple line into the upper rad hose.

    - There is no direct connection between #1 (blue) and #2 (purple) areas.
    - So air trap behind the tstat is a distinct possibility in the M52 engine.

    Just some tidbit about the M52 engine for those with curious mind...

    You are forgetting about the bleeder hole in the thermostat cover that connects the blue line with the purple line. here is a picture of it it is also shown in the video.



    You have confirmed what I stated in the diagrams above but have forgotten that there is a bleed hole that prevents air being trapped behind the thermostat in the lower rad hose, and the orange line and purple line in your diagram share the same passage inside the engine so no air can become trapped in that area. then the thermostat opens it closes off the flow from the block and draws flow from the lower radiator hose. Effectively the Orange line and the purple line are the same its just that the thermostat changes the direction of flow.
    Last edited by NNY528I; 12-16-2010 at 09:44 PM.
    >'97 528i, 200000 miles, Hella Xenons, 17" Stilauto wheels, Vogtland Drop Springs, Dynomax Race Muffler, Homelink, 540 brake upgrade, 15mm spacers >'65 & '74 MG Midgets BFC OT Lego Club #48 Manual conversion in process!!!



  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by NNY528I View Post
    #1. You are forgetting about the bleeder hole in the thermostat cover that connects the blue line with the purple line.

    #2. You have confirmed what I stated in the diagrams above but have forgotten that there is a bleed hole that prevents air being trapped behind the thermostat in the lower rad hose......
    #1. I don't forget anything my friend. This was mentioned before in my other posts, so no need to repeat it. But for other readers, once the system is buttoned, the only connection is via the small hole in the tstat housing as NNY528i said.

    #2. When the car gurus use the word "air being trapped behind tstat", they refer to air trapped behind the tstat in the engine itself (in this case cylinder head), not in the hose.

    And yes, air trapped behind the thermostat is a distinct possibility. My tstat with a drilled hole is now 4 years old, zero issues.
    Last edited by cnn; 12-16-2010 at 10:05 PM.

  9. #84
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    Thermostat Housing: OEM Plastic vs Aftermarket Aluminum

    I want to bring this to people's attention re Aluminum tstat housing.

    In my Cooling Overhaul, I mentioned that my BMW guru (who fixes hundreds of BMWs per year) warned me not to Aluminum Tstat housing because it can leak. Therefore, I have been using BMW OEM Plastic Tstat Housing.

    The leak from Aluminum tstat housing is either from:
    1. Uneven surface (therefore you might want to make the mating surface smooth) or
    2. Crack from poor casting process. Read on...

    The issue with "URO" Aluminum Tstat Housing (probably made in China) is that the casting of the inner groove is inferior, with time it can crack and causes leak. Sometimes this leak can be very rapid and catches the driver's by surprise, and yes you will have a cracked cylinder head if you keep driving!

    Here is the thread about that issue from E36 forum, read thread #133 by SIIDEWAYS:
    http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...d.php?t=773738

    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by cnn; 12-16-2010 at 10:27 PM.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by cnn View Post
    ..........

    #2. When the car gurus use the word "air being trapped behind tstat", they refer to air trapped behind the tstat in the engine itself (in this case cylinder head), not in the hose.

    And yes, air trapped behind the thermostat is a distinct possibility. My tstat with a drilled hole is now 4 years old, zero issues.
    air cannot get trapped in the block, it comes out though the upper radiator hose, your own diagram shows that the block passages exit to the upper radiator hose which is the high point in the engine block. air cant get trapped in the thermostat housing. for it to be trapped there must be something preventing the air from escaping but there is no blockage. in your diagram, the passage with the orange arrow extends straight back into the block where it meets the dotted purple line passage and then rises into the upper radiator hose, that is where the air will end up as the passage fills. Since the flow from the engine passes over the thermostat the thermostat cannot be air bound otherwise there would be no coolant flow at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by cnn View Post
    I want to bring this to people's attention re Aluminum tstat housing.

    In my Cooling Overhaul, I mentioned that my BMW guru (who fixes hundreds of BMWs per year) warned me not to Aluminum Tstat housing because it can leak. Therefore, I have been using BMW OEM Plastic Tstat Housing.

    The leak from Aluminum tstat housing is either from:
    1. Uneven surface (therefore you might want to make the mating surface smooth) or
    2. Crack from poor casting process. Read on...

    The issue with "URO" Aluminum Tstat Housing (probably made in China) is that the casting of the inner groove is inferior, with time it can crack and causes leak. Sometimes this leak can be very rapid and catches the driver's by surprise, and yes you will have a cracked cylinder head if you keep driving!

    Here is the thread about that issue from E36 forum, read thread #133 by SIIDEWAYS:
    http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...d.php?t=773738

    Ok one guy had his crack no one else in that thread reported at similar issue. Many people have reported good results with the aluminum units. And he bleeds the cooling system by revving the engine to 2000 rpms so perhaps he is not the best source for possible causes. No issues or leaks in mine to date.
    Last edited by NNY528I; 12-16-2010 at 10:40 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
    >'97 528i, 200000 miles, Hella Xenons, 17" Stilauto wheels, Vogtland Drop Springs, Dynomax Race Muffler, Homelink, 540 brake upgrade, 15mm spacers >'65 & '74 MG Midgets BFC OT Lego Club #48 Manual conversion in process!!!



  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by NNY528I View Post
    air cannot get trapped in the block, it comes out though the upper radiator hose...
    Air can get trapped in the cylinder head, behind the tstat, as mentioned previously.

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by cnn View Post
    Air can get trapped in the cylinder head, behind the tstat, as mentioned previously.
    You show me where it gets trapped and how it gets trapped there then, I have shown you why it cant get trapped you just keep insisting it can without presenting a single bit of evidence to support your claim.
    >'97 528i, 200000 miles, Hella Xenons, 17" Stilauto wheels, Vogtland Drop Springs, Dynomax Race Muffler, Homelink, 540 brake upgrade, 15mm spacers >'65 & '74 MG Midgets BFC OT Lego Club #48 Manual conversion in process!!!



  13. #88
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    Thanks for all of the info guys.
    Will be doing my flush tomorrow without replacing any parts.
    I have a Jan/1999 540 so I checked realoem diagrams but couldn't find any references to latent heat system.
    Could someone advise if I need to worry about the additional steps to bleed that additional system?
    Currently, my temp gauge is dead center, would an indication of additional air in the system the needle being to the right of center? I understand that additional bleeds should rectify that?
    Just trying to get all ducks in a row before I attempt. Thanks in advance

  14. #89
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    Worked mint for me......thanks sooo much

  15. #90
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    A Big Thanks !!

    Bleed my system after a complete cooling overhaul 10 days ago .

    Been keeping an eye on it , all is good .

    This video made what seemed like a hard bleeding job, easy .

    Bob

  16. #91
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    Smile Broken bleeder screw

    HELP! HELP! HELP!

    So my "check coolant level" warning came on a few days ago and I decided to be lazy and continue driving as is...I delayed purchasing coolant for another day until last night my engine started to overheat while I was on a date! I parked the car and opened the hood to cool the engine. Fluid was blowing out as high as the hood was open through the bleeder screw next to the expansion tank. It eventually stopped where I let the engine cool for 2 hours then filled a gallon of distilled water in the expansion tank so I can get home. I purchased coolant today to fill up and bleed the system and noticed that the bleeder screw next to the expansion tank was missing the screw head while the rest of it was broken inside. I'm thinking of slowly carving a small groove in the broken screw with a flat head so i can unscrew it out till I purchase another screw on Monday from the dealer. Now here are the questions I am left asking myself...

    1. Has this situation caused anymore damage such as a leak somewhere in the hoses or connections or did the fact that the bleeder screw broke cause a pressure relief in the system thus not blowing the head gasket or any other connections.

    2. Assuming nothing else broke, since I filled the tank with a gallon of distilled water should I drain the cooling system before adding a new 50/50 coolant mix or can I just top it off and continue with the bleeding process?

    3. On a scale of 1-10, how stupid am I for allowing this to happen? I apologized to my car like a 100 times for putting it through this mess.

  17. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by NNY528I View Post
    What do you think when you look at whats been presented? Or are you one of those guys that watches hockey for the fights.
    If you guys don't mind an outsider (m50 e36) getting involved (and bumping a thread, no less) I have some things to say on the matter. Us e36 guys are also struggling with the myth of a difficult to bleed cooling system. For what it's worth, I've studied my cooling system (it looks just like yours(well, the parts relevant to air lock at least)) in great detail and after reading this thread I must say I do agree with NNY528I. Our observations and the conclusions we drew from them appear to be congruent. Never mind what any expert mechanic has to say, direct observations are always preferable.

    What is disputed is whether air can become trapped inside the block/head ("behind the thermostat"). The correct response to such a inquiry is repeated many times in this thread in many different ways. Air in the block/head cannot become trapped anywhere because there is no thermostat or anything else to prevent it from flowing freely out the top radiator hose and relieving itself via the bleeder screw or expansion tank.

    The key points to catch are that the cooling system features a thermostat located at the bottom radiator hose rather than the conventional top hose location, and that air inside the block is therefore allowed to flow freely out the top radiator hose, unobstructed by the thermostat as in other (air-lock prone) designs. If you don't wish to read any further, you don't have to. That information is sufficient to settle the dispute if you accept it. It has been stated over and over many times, but either overlooked or ignored outright in every case.

    Quote Originally Posted by cnn View Post
    For those who wonder about the coolant passages of an M52 engine...

    As I already mentioned in this cooling overhaul for my 1998 528i:
    http://www.bimmerboard.com/forums/posts/199986

    -------
    I recently changed my Tstat seals and for my curiosity, decided to probe the coolant passages using electrical wire and my finger!
    I confirmed the coolant flow as follows:
    - The WP circulates fluid from solid orange line from engine and solid blue line from UPPER Radiator Hose ---> dotted blue line (behind the thermostat) into the WP itself. This brings cool fluid into engine.
    - Then hot coolant builds up in the engine block and comes out in the dotted purple line ---> solid purple line into the upper rad hose.

    - There is no direct connection between #1 (blue) and #2 (purple) areas.
    - So air trap behind the tstat is a distinct possibility in the M52 engine.

    Just some tidbit about the M52 engine for those with curious mind...

    There is an oversight here which makes all the difference. It has been stated already, but I will attempt to restate it with more verbosity.

    While there is no direct connection between blue and purple, there IS a direct connection inside the head between the ORANGE hole and the PURPLE hole. They are effectively the same hole. They both contain hot water from the head ready to be either recirculated directly when the engine is cold (the closed dual-action thermostat prevents water from passing from the blue line to the dotted blue line, while permitting water to pass from orange to dotted blue) or cooled by the radiator first and then recirculated if the engine is hot (the open thermostat blocks water from going from orange to dotted blue while allowing it to go from blue to dotted blue - water from orange can then only come out purple.) There is no difference between saying "air trapped in the block/head" and "air trapped behind the thermostat" and "air trapped in the orange/purple area." The area behind the thermostat is the orange/purple area, and the orange/purple area is the top opening to the coolant passages of the head and therefore block.

    Here's the significance of that:

    Because of the connection between the orange hole (from head/block passages) and the purple hole (output to radiator/bleed screw) it is not possible for air to become trapped inside the block/head AKA behind the thermostat since it is not stopped by the thermostat and can come freely out the purple hole. To support the theory that the engine can become air locked, the assumption is made that air in the head/block has no escape route other than the orange hole behind the thermostat. This is not the case. Rather, the air is also free to come out the purple hole, and this is what it does.

    BMW has chosen to remove the thermostat from the airlock-prone top hose position and place it in the airlock-free bottom hose position. A very wise move, for even while filling a completely dry block, all the air is guaranteed to come out the top radiator hose and be released via the expansion tank or bleeder screw.
    Last edited by benemorius; 05-23-2011 at 01:08 AM.

  18. #93
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    Thanks

    I know NNY528I said it would be easy but bfc has created such a mythical BEAST out of the bleeding procedure. It was almost too easy. One thing I did was add the coolant a little too fast when the bleeder screw was off of the upper hose. It resulted in a mini geyser! A little coolant wasted but I know for next time and with each successful DIY they're less intimidating each time.

  19. #94
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    Thanks for the DIY!!

    My expansion tank cracked and I replaced it. Once I did that the bleeder screw on the expansion tank cracked in half. So I replaced that today as well.

    I just did the cold bleed method this evening and so far so good. The HVAC was set to 90 degrees and the fan on low with the key in the 'run' position.

    While the key was in the 'run' position I kept running into the same issue as allamer35, the coolant geyser. I was pouring slowly but it happened 2 more times.

    I decided to turn the key to the off position and follow the rest of the instructions. Everything else worked as described and demonstrated in the vid.

    I went for a drive and got the car up to temp. Idled for 15min after the drive and the temp held. I plan on checking the expansion tank in the morning.

    If I need to, I'll re-bleed the system in the morning as well.

    Any thoughts on the geyser effect?

  20. #95
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    Was the geyser followed by air bubbles?
    Last edited by shogun; 04-07-2019 at 10:15 AM.
    >'97 528i, 200000 miles, Hella Xenons, 17" Stilauto wheels, Vogtland Drop Springs, Dynomax Race Muffler, Homelink, 540 brake upgrade, 15mm spacers >'65 & '74 MG Midgets BFC OT Lego Club #48 Manual conversion in process!!!



  21. #96
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    I did this procedure this morning and all seems well.

    NNY528i,

    I read about your thread also on the discussion on whether or not to change the differential oil with Jason.

    I wonder if you still have your car and if it is still in good condition.

    Thanks.

  22. #97
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    Gave this a shot. I removed the 2 bleed screws and the expansion cap, and when I turned the heat on coolant spewed out of the thermostat (almost hitting the hood) bleed hole and continued to spurt out every 10 seconds or so but not as high. Is this normal?


    College student - Software Engineering
    E39 528i - 231k

  23. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roy AT View Post
    I did this procedure this morning and all seems well.

    NNY528i,

    I read about your thread also on the discussion on whether or not to change the differential oil with Jason.

    I wonder if you still have your car and if it is still in good condition.

    Thanks.
    glad it worked for you. Could you link the discussion you refer to above, I do not recall a discussion on differential oil change unless you meant transmission fluid change.

    As to my car I do still have it, it is in outstanding condition and just rolled over 170000 miles, and I have not changed the transmission fluid. I will at some point this summer change the rear diff fluid as a part of my current PM efforts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Devi22 View Post
    Gave this a shot. I removed the 2 bleed screws and the expansion cap, and when I turned the heat on coolant spewed out of the thermostat (almost hitting the hood) bleed hole and continued to spurt out every 10 seconds or so but not as high. Is this normal?

    i have not heard of that happening before but it should not be an issue, I would follow the procedure as directed but i would leave the thermostat housing bleed screw installed and just use the expansion tank bleeder screw, it might take a few minutes longer but it will bleed just fine from the expansion tank screw.
    Last edited by NNY528I; 06-29-2011 at 07:14 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
    >'97 528i, 200000 miles, Hella Xenons, 17" Stilauto wheels, Vogtland Drop Springs, Dynomax Race Muffler, Homelink, 540 brake upgrade, 15mm spacers >'65 & '74 MG Midgets BFC OT Lego Club #48 Manual conversion in process!!!



  24. #99
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    Understood, will give it a shot in the morning, thanks.
    Last edited by shogun; 04-07-2019 at 10:08 AM. Reason: unnessary quotes removed


    College student - Software Engineering
    E39 528i - 231k

  25. #100
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    First post!

    Just wanted to thank NNY528I for his very clear and detailed descriptions of the cooling system. I've had my 2000 E39 530i for around 2 weeks and have got a cooling system issue with it - I suspect it's a small leak which I've made worse by introducing air into the system when attempting to top up the coolant level.

    I'm confident with the info I've gleaned from this thread and a few others that I'll be able to get the problem fixed. Your calm persistence is refreshing, thank you NNY528I.

    (PS: I will not be drilling a hole in my new thermostat)

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