Member
The car is a 04 545i with an April build date. I bought the car with 53k miles and a hate to admit it but I heard a slight tick at idle when I was outside the car and it was cold. After warm up I didn't notice it. You couldnt hear it in the car when it was cold if the fan or radio were on. 18k miles later it is getting loud fast. Now it gets quieter warm but never goes away, it starting to sound more like a Russian tractor than a BMW (no offense intended, a Russian tractor is probably much more reliable and doesn't throw error codes all of the time). It seems loudest between idle and 3000 rpms and gets pretty quiet decelerating.
Here is what it sounds like:
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHeizw6Jbn0[/ame]
I pulled the plugs and the cylinder number 6 plug was black and oily, the other plugs looked fine. I did a quick compression test and the number 6 cylinder was about 20% lower than the others which were very close together. The stethoscope indicated the noise was near number 6. I pulled the front serpentine belt anyway and there was no change with the noise.
So I took the car to the local dealer here in Louisville with a loud tapping noise coming from the drivers side of the engine.
I took the car in for a "diagnosis" visit that took the better part of a week only to find out that it didn't have any codes (I had already code scanned it and new that) and the senior mechanics think it might be a problem with the valve train. The service writer suggested pulling the valve cover for a look around. Well the diagnosis is $120 and they want $950 to pull the valve cover. Since they didn't even bother to verify the compression or borescope cylinder 6 before they were ready to tear into it, I decided to run for cover before my visa card caught on fire. They gave me no idea of what the costs might be so they scared me off.
To make a long story short, an independent repair shop pulled the pan for a look up into the bottom of cylinder 6 and found some pretty severe scoring on the cylinder walls.
Anybody got any good suggestions or has anyone seen this before.
Here is someone elses 545i on youtube with a similar problem (needed a new motor)
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJ7ptk_1jmI[/ame]
These are the plugs that came out of the motor at about 67K miles.
http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo...eat=directlink
Here is a closer detail
http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo...eat=directlink
You would think the dealer would have been a bit more curious (read helpfull) after looking at a good 8x10 print of this image.....
Last edited by galenpowers; 03-03-2010 at 12:52 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
Member
Man that sucks. I can not believe Swope could not tell you more. What indy did you take it to, Stien, Don Black?? It sounds like something got loose in the engine to score the cyclinder like that. Good luck.
Member
Ouch...........not good that is for sure.
So is the Indy shop saying a new motor for sure???
Seems like you know your way around a motor. Chances are you could do the motor swap yourself. Used motors usually run between 3K-4K or a little more if super low miles.
Member
I took the car to Autobahn BMW just off of Poplar Level Road and the Waterson Expressway.Originally Posted by yopeterson
Here is a link http://www.autobahnmotorsky.com/
These guys are GREAT! Mark and Russell are very resourceful, smart and helpfull. They communicate well and do their best to do the job as efficiently as possible.
HIGHLY RECOMMENDED.
I talked to most of the shops in the Louisville Ky. area and there are some good ones but these guys were the most knowledgeable about this car and were willing to do whatever it takes. AWESOME...
I am going to post some additional images later take a look when you get a chance. the scored cylinder looks really bad. Hard to believe that it happened at 68K.
Looks like it will definitely need a motor. These things aren't really practical to rebuild from what I can see. The parts are so outrageous, it takes the fun right out of it.
Here are the scored cylinder wall pictures:
Right click the video and select watch on youtube for more resolution, then watch it full screen if you need more detail
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nK43Jtv_908[/ame]
does anyone know where there is a good n62 motor for sale?
Last edited by galenpowers; 03-04-2010 at 12:10 AM.
Member
Might want to check with the shop you got it at for an engine. They may have some connections with good people they trust.
Member
Thanks for the info. As far as what to do, I have a couple suggestions:
1 Take the car to a boat ramp on the Ohio River, and roll it in.
2 Take it to the West end put a sign that sayes " For Steal" Be sure to leave the keys.Take the plate and VIN with you.
3 Wait for the next natural disaster here, Flood, hail storm or ice storm and make sure it gets totaled.
4. Call BMW NA and hope they will pay for some part of the repair.
But seriously, hope you can find a good motor cheap. Please let us know how it works out.
Member
I like the boat ramp idea the best. How about an air bag test with a nice solid bridge abutment? Maybe I could claim that the gas peddle got stuck under the floor mat.
i am trying the BMWNA approach now, cross your fingers.
Member
Galenpowers-
Do you mind if I ask about the maintenance history on this vehicle?
The reason I ask is that we just bought a CPO'd 525Xi with 33,000 miles on it, and I'm disappointed to read that "free maintenance" means that BMW will change the oil approximately every 14K miles. That seem ridiculous to me, so I'm figuring on changing the oil myself every-other oil change.
Ironically, the engine on our car has a pronounced "tick" at idle that does not seem to go away.I'm wondering if more frequent oil-changes will limit this situation.
You seem to know your way around an engine, so any thoughts you could lend would be appreciated.
Member
Saxart........Remember the oil change miles in I-Drive isn't a countdown. So even though it may say 12K or whatever you could drive 3K and it could be down to 4K left to go until an oil change. It all depends on the driving habits. Short trips really cut it down quick. If you don't have long commutes(15+ miles) everyday. Chances are I-drive will be telling you to change your oil between 6K-10K of acutal real miles driven.
I just watch mine and either way do oil changes around 7.5K. Usualy by this time I-drive is under 2K miles to go anyways. Which might only be another 1K or less in real miles.
Member
Quick response to the maintenance history question: The dealer showed me the service history quickly on the computer and said that everything looked like it was done when it should have been which probably means that the oil was changes about every 14k miles +/-. It was changed again at 53k when i bought it. I changed the oil about every 5k with 5/30 synthetic and a new filter. More frequent oil changes might have slowed the development of my problem down but all that accomplished is letting the car get further out of warranty. You can see aluminum in the oil even after a few thousand miles now though.Galenpowers-
Do you mind if I ask about the maintenance history on this vehicle?
The reason I ask is that we just bought a CPO'd 525Xi with 33,000 miles on it, and I'm disappointed to read that "free maintenance" means that BMW will change the oil approximately every 14K miles. That seem ridiculous to me, so I'm figuring on changing the oil myself every-other oil change.
Ironically, the engine on our car has a pronounced "tick" at idle that does not seem to go away.
You seem to know your way around an engine, so any thoughts you could lend would be appreciated.
If you are in doubt about the integrity of the motor I would suggest the following.
Make sure you dealer knows that you are not happy about the noises and that they get documented.
Watch the spark plugs and if any of the plugs show black deposits check the compression. (Just get good at taking the plugs in and out and get over how hard the back ones are to remove. You have to remove some stuff and tie back some lines to pull the plugs but its not that bad the second time)
When the car is cold and tapping, put it in sport mode where you do the shifting. When you are rolling accelerate up to about 2500 rpms in 2nd or third gear then get out of the throttle abruptly and coast. If the tapping gets very quiet or goes away then it is behaving like my car did before we discovered the scoring.
Keep in mind it still could be something else.
If you don't have a black plug and low compression in at least 1 cylinder then it is probably something else.
If you see a black plug, you might want to consider having someone do an oil analysis especially if you can see some metallic fleck in the oil in bright light.
Keep us posted on you situation. Thanks
Last edited by galenpowers; 03-05-2010 at 10:15 PM.
Member
Just got a rough, conservative estimate from the dealer to install a short block today: $16,000. The dealer said a new motor is $28K. The service manager said he would to talk to the BMWNA rep on Thursday. This is depressing to say the least.
If I hadn't been so diligent with oil changes,(castrol 5-30 Synthetic 4-5K miles) maybe it would have blown up sooner and I would have been in a better position.
Lesson Learned: if you by a pre-owned BMW (Autocheck score was 93 with 1 prior owner) and it isn't a dealer CPO with a factory warranty you are out of your mind. 16K to fix a car that was worth $20K when it ran right with 68k miles on it? Can you say questionable investment?
Member
UPDATE: The dealer (Swope BMW Louisville) informed me that bmw north america will not participate in this repair. Thank the lord for independent repair centers. Looks like the car is going to Autobahn BMW where someone who actually cares can handle the repair and do it for a reasonable price, that is if putting a motor in a 60,000 dollar car at 68k is reasonable. Drop me a sympathy post if you feel so inclined. The dealer and BMWNA are a disappointment to say the least.
Member
That sucks man.
So what is Autobahn going to charge you??
Member
Before you give up and pay for the repair yourself, I suggest you try the following:
1. Have the local BMW dealer print out the maintenance history for the car. If the oil changes were done according to BMW's schedule (yes even at 12 to 14K mile intervals), ask the Service Manager to do a "goodwill" repair given that the car was maintained by BMW per their own schedule (and show proof that you did the oil changes too after 50K mi free maintenance expired) and this is clearly a manufacturing defect since no BMW engine should fail at 68K miles. Better to go to the same dealer where the maintenance was done if the dealership is close by. They will have a sense of ownership.
2. If this does not work, ask to speak to the BMW Factory Rep and explain this to him and demand it. Let him know that you have posted the problem on online forums and many current BMW owners and possibly potential ones are following it.
Can't hurt to try. Good luck.
Member
Not sure yet, but I am planning on buying a new domain and putting a page up with all of the details of the engine tear down. I am looking for some expert opinions on the block and or piston failures if anyone has a suggestion.
Sending oil samples out shortly. Stay tuned...
I will post more details here as they are available, make sure to follow this post with email notifications if you are interested.
Member
Things are finally moving forward. Lets just say bmw is no help at all. Lots of hand ringing and bull$h1t answers to direct questions. I wonder if Jim O'Donnell, the president of BMW USA knows how this stuff gets handled. Lets just say that the performance of the local dealer and BMW USA customer service is not what builds the confidence of the enthusiast market, evidently they don't really give a $h!t.
Anyway enough ranting, the guys at ascwarranty.com have been much more reasonable to deal with than BMW USA and the local dealer Swope BMW.They are actually trying to be helpful. BMW USA could take a page out of their book. The have agreed to pay their portion of the repair so I am finally getting on with it. I am looking for a motor now and Autobahn BMW Louisville will do the work. Wish me luck.
Last edited by galenpowers; 06-08-2010 at 10:17 PM.
Member
The car is over 6 years old. You bought it out of BMW warranty and not from a dealer. And you have an aftermarket warranty on the car. The dealer didnt make a nickle on you and you think they are bad because they wouldn't give you a free engine. For all you know the guy you bought it from (with an engine noise already present) just overheated it and replaced the water pump and that was why he sold it. I feel bad for you being stuck like that but I really don't see where the accusation that the dealer doesn't care fits. They tried to get BMW to pay. I wonder how much extra my BMW cost new because BMW is expected to pay for stuff like that. And by the way, if you had bought from the dealer and took your car there for service, that would have constituted loyalty and they may have helped. I have a friend that got a free transmission last year in a 2003 530 because he always went to the dealer for everything. His car was 6 1/2 years old with 82000 miles at the time. If they didn't care they could have just told you to take it to the guy that did make money selling it to you and complain to him. Good luck
Member
With all due respect, you didn't talk to the dealer. I didnt ask for a free engine. I asked for some cooperation with the third party warranty company which they flatly refused. The first owner sold the car at 53k, do you really think he would hide a warranty issue so he could stick someone else with it.
I still contend that this car should not have had this problem at 68k. We will see what the lower end looks like after it is disassembled and documented. Stay tuned. This is not the only 545i with this problem either.
Member
If properly maintained, no engine should fail at 68k, much less a BMW engine. I expect even Ford/GM/Kia to make at least 100k...
I was just considering buying a 545i with an April 2004 build date too. Talk about scary..
Member
Who cares if the dealer made any money on he/she; He/she just wants BMW to stand behind their product, and maybe not even that, he/she may have just wanted cooperation from the dealership, with the 3rd party warranty, which is not uncommon. The dealership I go to has interfaced with my 3rd party warranty directly.
If the dealerships are not going to assist you, if you did not buy the vehicle from them, which I am sure is not the BMW way, then there needs to be an official document saying so.
Member
This statement is what I was refering to.
UPDATE: The dealer (Swope BMW Louisville) informed me that bmw north america will not participate in this repair.
I aggree there is no reason a properly maintained BMW engine should fail at 68K miles. I'm quite sure no properly maintained engine should fail that early. I'd even bet a poorly maintained BMW engine would last longer than that. I also believe that engine was abused and/or damaged before he bought the car, probably from an over heat that tightened up that cylinder. I used to overhaul engines for a living and have seen that damage before. Many dealers have problems with aftermarket warranties and some, not just BMW dealers, won't honor them. Even the AAMCO down the street from me has a sign out that says "we honor 'most' warranties". When I owned my own business I stopped taking them. A customer of mine had an aftermarket warranty that said all he had to pay was a $100 deductable for any covered repair. When the power steering pump went bad and damaged the steering rack, all they would pay for was a used rack from a junk yard in Tennesee and a National Auto power steering pump. He paid the difference between the $650 they would pay and the $1500 to fix it with new BMW parts. Then he had to wait 2 1/2 weeks for the warranty company to pay their share. Some dealers won't deal with the customer being mad at them for what the warranty company does so they turn them away up front. It's the aftermarket warranty companies that are the problem. Some of what they do is so well hidden in legalese it should be fraud.
Last edited by aquila163; 06-14-2010 at 07:44 PM.
Member
Can someone post the normal sound of you engine? I hear a little tapping noise at idle on my V8, but more so on th driver's side. I would like to hear what's normal.
Thanks.
Member
I can get you a video of the car running normally now. I had the engine replaced with a 40k salvaged engine from Renos Auto Parts in Ohio. They did an excellent job of removing the engine and keeping the wire harnesses intact. The put it on a nice skid and delivered the motor to Louisville with no damage. It is nice to see a salvage yard perform so professionally.
Autobahn BMW in Louisville Ky did an excellent job on the swap and did it for a very reasonable price considering the amount of work involved. The car is running well with no issues after the swap. The repair cost less than half what Swope BMW in Louisville estimated to replace the block and pistons.
I now have the dead N62 545I motor on an engine stand in my garage and I am getting ready to start the tear down to see what happened internally.
As far as your noise is concerned, remove the three plastic acoustic covers from the top of your engine, buy a harbor freight stethoscope or use a stick, screwdriver or a couple of extensions and probe the engine with the weapon of choice from the above list against your ear. You will be able to hear the fuel injectors and learn what they sound like. Listen for other noises lower in the engine. Check for differences from cylinder to cylinder. If you hear anything suspicious, read the plugs and run a compression test. Good luck.
I can get you a video of the car runing normally now. I had the engine replaced with a 40k salvaged engine from Renos Auto Parts in Ohio. The did an excellent job of removing the engine and keeping the wire harnesses intact. The repair cost less than half what Swope BMW in Louisville estimated to replace the block and pistons.
Autobahn BMW in Louisville Ky did an excellent job on the swap and did it for a very reasonable price considering the amount of work involved. The car is running well with no issues after the swap.
I have the dead N62 545I motor on an engine stand in my garage and I am getting ready to start the tear down to see what happened internally.
As far as your noise is concerned, remove the three plastic acoustic covers from the top of your engine, buy a habor freight stethoscope or use a stick, screwdriver or a couple of extensions an probe the engine with the weapon of choice from the above list against your ear. You will be able to hear the fuel injectors and learn what they sound like. Listen for other noises lower in the engine. Check for differences for cylinder to cylinder. If you hear anything suspicious read the plugs and run a compression test.
I can get you a video of the car runing normally now. I had the engine replaced with a 40k salvaged engine from Renos Auto Parts in Ohio. The did an excellent job of removing the engine and keeping the wire harnesses intact. The repair cost less than half what Swope BMW in Louisville estimated to replace the block and pistons.
Autobahn BMW in Louisville Ky did an excellent job on the swap and did it for a very reasonable price considering the amount of work involved. The car is running well with no issues after the swap.
I have the dead N62 545I motor on an engine stand in my garage and I am getting ready to start the tear down to see what happened internally.
As far as your noise is concerned, remove the three plastic acoustic covers from the top of your engine, buy a habor freight stethoscope or use a stick, screwdriver or a couple of extensions an probe the engine with the weapon of choice from the above list against your ear. You will be able to hear the fuel injectors and learn what they sound like. Listen for other noises lower in the engine. Check for differences for cylinder to cylinder. If you hear anything suspicious read the plugs and run a compression test.
Last edited by galenpowers; 08-18-2010 at 03:00 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
Wannabe Mechanic
Member
wow this situation is total balls. sorry about your luck, I have definetly been hearing about more and more issues with the 545i.
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