New here, 1st post is of course I have a major problem

[Maximus Decimus]

1st, off let me introduce my self. I'm from the US, sunny FL, but I live and work in sunny Cape Town, South Africa now. I guess I have a thing for sun. I lurk on several bmw forums and was very active on some e36 and e46 sites back in the day. I'm a BMWCCA member and all around BMW fan. I've had a couple now, but the car in question now is a '02 525i touring. The GF and I are expecting a lil one in a month and half and we bought the car a few months ago cause we wanted the space and practicality.

Anyways, the car has 120K (km's) on the clock now and in Dec of '09 it developed you guessed it, an overheating problem. Ok not being particularly mechanically inclined and generally not having any free time right now, I passed on all the DIY's related to overhauling the cooling system. Yes, I'm kicking myself now. I took the car to a local dealer here, Auto Atlantic in the CBD in Cape Town. I see the story is starting to turn long now, so I'll summarize as much as I can:

Since the end of Dec (total span about 6 weeks), the car has been to the same dealer, 4 times for the same issue, overheating. Here's the timeline:

- 1st trip: Pressure tested, thermostat & fan shroud replaced. Coolant topped up. Car was also due for a service, so routine service performed. Everything seemed ok for a few days.
- On the 2nd trip ~1.5 weeks after the 1st, we were ok (gave them the benefit of the doubt). Pressure tested again, hoses and pipes were replaced. Coolant topped up and again, all's well for a few day, but now we start noticing a strange smell coming from the a/c vents. We immediately notify them and they request the car come back.
- When it had to go back a 3rd time (a week after 2nd service, but only a day or two after they requested we bring it back), we were seriously aggravated now. Again, pressure tests, we were told now the problem was the water pump. Not very happy, grudgingly paid the 3rd separate bill now. Coolant topped up again, but the smell is still there.
- Now another 2 weeks later, the car was laying limp in the garage again as it had started overheating again the day before. Towed in, tested yet again, we were now told the problem lies with the temperature sensor. Now furious, and not understanding how a dealer can essentially "repair" a car by trial and error, we of course made a huge stink.

They "fixed" the car and handed it back over to us. Upon driving away from the dealer (I wasn't there to pick up the car this time, my GF was driving) an alarm sounding like the PDC started going off and wouldn't stop. The service rep tried, but also had no luck with shutting it off. They took the car back into the service area. Some time later, the service rep comes back and states the car was actually not ready to go and wasn't supposed to be released (what does that tell me service quality and communication at this place??). The foreman thinks "you may have a blown head gasket and further tests need to be run". How the two are related, I still have no idea. Well the results are in now, and of course the head gasket is blown!!

Anyways, my problem is this. The car has been there 4 times in the last 2 months for overheating and had a routine service inspection on the very 1st trip almost 2 months ago now. Questions for members:

Is it normal for a dealer to have missed the warning signs for the head gasket? Could anything have been done to prevent this?
Wouldn't the OBD2 had given some warning signs?
What's the best strategy for fighting this?
The car was running great, then all of a sudden this happens. Something is just not adding up.

We really feel we're being hosed. The dealer claims it's not their fault and I just don't understand how this could have happened. The car has always run very good, other than the string of overheating (which I wonder now if everything they've replaced, ever needed replacing) there's been no other issues.

A million thanks in advance. I really need the community's help. Sorry for the extremely long rant, but just couldn't find a way to make it shorter. Also, forgive me if I reply late. I have a pretty big time difference.

[boondocksaint]

• Whether or not it is normal for a dealer/shop to miss a needed head gasket repair depends on the quality of said dealer/shop

• Repeated overheating will warp the head/destroy the gasket. The problem could easily have resulted from the repeated incidents and not been the underlying fault. Anyone who knows E39s should probably have recommended doing the water pump, thermostat, radiator, etc. at one whack. It would have at least saved labor costs.

• OBD2 ain't magic. It lets you know when a fault occurs in a monitored system. Your car overheated and temp gauge went nuts, yes? Fault monitored. I would guess the service engine light came on, or should have.

• If the car was not overheating before you took it to them, then something may be amiss as you say. Then again, it is an E39, and things fail. Were they using the correct coolant? They could have buggered the pressure test somehow, but I doubt it. Unless they failed to fill the system properly (which should result in a coolant level warning), I dunno. Someone with more knowledge than I should chime in.

[mattmartindrift]

OBD2 is an EMISSIONS-monitoring software protocol. It is not a do-it-all engine diagnostics interface.


Sounds like your dealer owes you some reimbursement(s) for your troubles.

[jamfool]

There is no head gasket health sensor on our cars, but any dumb mechanic should have thought of doing some compression test, so it could have helped to determine if it was gone or not...

BMW are notorious for weak cooling system anyway, including water pumps, thermostat, radiator, hoses etc. The whole thing is flawed by design, using plastic parts etc.

Many of us have done a full cooling system overhaul.

Now in the mean time finding another good BMW specialist would probably save you some time and money. And I am sure he will be able to pin point the faulty part(s) in a more effective and quicker way.

Try the regional forums, also I do not know how big is the SA section here, but I know on e46fanatics, it is pretty big, there is a lot of BMW enthusiasts and owners in SA. And some nuts too, with S62 twin-charger and V8 M3 engines in e46 etc...

HTH

[jamesdc4]

+1 on multiple cooling system components should have been done at one time to save on labor!
I think that's something that should be requested by the customer, however, a trustworthy dealership or indy tech would suggest it.
I wouldn't go back if I were you, but if you want to try to recoup some funds from them, let them do the headgasket replacement and ask for a discount of the amount of labor for the WP.

[boondocksaint]

^Yeah, get them to back out the labor they charged you to do the water pump. I'd also wonder why the car "wasn't ready to be released" or whatever. What were they waiting for, first of all. Had they not worked on it, or were they waiting to reset lights or something shady? Also, how does a car that isn't ready get released? That, and any damage resulting from it, should be fair negotiating game.

The more I think about this situation (as you described it), the more I think I'd ask for a partial refund and take that money to a trustworthy mechanic.

[Marciosilva]

If your head gasket is blown, probably your cylinder head will need work too. I know mine did after a major blowup of a hose after a major overheat. (I was not driving, the wife was). I had it machined and the whole cooling system replaced. the way they are related, the cylinder head gasket and the cooling system are related is this: the engine block is steel and the cylinder head aluminum, so even with a minor overheat, it may get warped and/or damaged.
If you are taking it for a dealer, they are milking you out of your money. There are no systems that tell if the gasket or the head is damaged. Just a thorough inspection will tell you, which is what they should have done. They should refund some of the labour charges at least. I don't know about South Africa, but here in the US, if the parts are not under warranty, you can demand all the replaced broken parts to be returned to you upon completion of service. Just make sure you check that option on the estimate sheet.

[Maximus Decimus]

Thanks for all the feedback. I'll definitely take a look at the regional forums as fooljam suggested.

The car is at the same dealer now, but I've already told them I don't want them to touch the car again. I find them to be completely incompetent. I really want to find a specialist in the area, and need to do some more research for the future, but a part of me (my wallet ) really wants to get the dealer to do the work. I really feel that them not properly diagnosing the true source of the overheating (at their shop 4x in 6 weeks) led to the stress causing the cylinder head problem. They are of course taking no responsibility. Mind you, when the car was noticed to be overheating, we stopped immediately and had the car towed. If I take the car somewhere else now, it's of course not their fault and would definitely have to cover 100% of the bill. How much of an argument do I have?