What are the symptoms of a failing CVV?

[tdz123]

What are the symptoms of a failing CVV? I drive short distances regularly, so I fear my car is a prime candidate for CVV failure. I am going to replace the CVV and hoses once it warms up a bit this spring. Until then, I want to know what the warning signs are. If I have to, I'll take the car to an indy.

[WHITEXi]

When mine went it cuased it to eat oil. A quart every 500 or less. It can varry less or more depending on how it fails and how bad. I also hd lots of thick fog like smoke from the exhuast at idle and after I took off from a stop. It was grey smoke and eventually the car started eating oil baad enough to cuase it to run like crap and throw a engine light from it missing.

[genuity]

This is one of them, but it does not happen to everyone.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9OQtvZ2fp0[/ame]

[nathancarter]

Three common ones:

1) Cracks in the air hoses leading to and from the CCV.
Symptoms: lean condition, P0171 and P0174.
Diagnosis: Remove oil filler cap while at idle. Leaking CCV system will cause stumbling and a very strong suction on the oil filler cap.

2) Failure to separate oil from vapor
Symptoms: More-than-expected oil consumption - oily crankcase gases are being returned to the intake instead of separated properly.
Diagnosis: Check plugs and DISA for oil contamination.

3) Clogged with oil-ice or sludge
Symptoms: 'splosions in the engine bay
Cause: Short trips in cold weather, allowing moisture (inherent to gasoline combustion) to get in the oil and never burn off. Moisture mixes with oil and makes yellow snot. Yellow snot sticks in CCV, car is left outside in freezing temperature, snot turns to ice-snot, then the crankcase vapors that the CCV is supposed to separate instead just build pressure inside the crankcase... until POW!
Early Diagnosis: yellow goo or black sludge under the valve cover or on the underside of the filler cap
Late diagnosis: oil all over the place, terrible lean conditions, maybe oil fills the cylinders, wallet vanishes.

[dinks07]

my car i just got has 36000 miles its a 04 do i need to worry and what is cvv

[nathancarter]

my car i just got has 36000 miles its a 04 do i need to worry and what is cvv

The CVV takes oily crankcase gases (found in all internal combustion engines), separates the oil, returns the oil down the dipstick tube to the sump, and recycles the gases into the intake to be combusted.

If your daily commute is relatively short, and the engine rarely gets up to full operating temp, you need to worry. Refer to point 3 in my previous post. Solution: take it for a hot highway drive for about 30 minutes every week or two.

If your daily commute is not short, and the engine gets up to full temp every time you drive, you have no need to worry... for now.

[tdz123]

Ok, thanks for the responses. I fall into category 3 (lots of short drives with car never getting up to operating temps) so I am concerned. I'll check for these symptoms this weekend.

[Smiledr996s]

I was considering a "catch can" to eliminate the AOS. WOuld I be able to delete the valve as well. I have a can already from a track project that I am abadoning, that would be able to drain. I find this nice on cold dreary days, I can drain alot of collected moisture from my 944.

I actually have two extra ones. One that that is vented to atmosphere and the other which returns to the intake. If I installed the one that vents back to the intake, and delete the CCV, would I throw any codes or affect anything.

Steve

[shadow4bimmer]

What do you mean "short drives?" One mile, five, fifteen what? My car usually warms up in five minutes and reaches the middle of the gage at that point.

[WHITEXi]

What do you mean "short drives?" One mile, five, fifteen what? My car usually warms up in five minutes and reaches the middle of the gage at that point.

Usually the car should run for at least 30 min from what people say to correctly remove the vapor. I at least get the car up to normal operating temp if it is that short of a drive.

[nathancarter]

What do you mean "short drives?" One mile, five, fifteen what? My car usually warms up in five minutes and reaches the middle of the gage at that point.

Depends on the ambient temperature, really. Note that the gauge is damped, and will read vertical for a wide range of temperatures, even as low as .. 167F I think? So the gauge will be vertical well before the engine is really fully warmed up.

The goal is to have the oil hot enough for long enough that the moisture turns to steam, which is then recirculated into the intake. I don't have any great advice on gauging that. Fifteen minutes is probably plenty for your daily commute, maybe ten if it's hot outside. If your daily commute is less than that, you probably want to get out there for 30 minutes every couple of weeks, especially in the winter.

[mmaraya]

I realize this is an old thread but I thought people might find this useful. What I've read is that you want to drive long enough for the oil to reach the boiling point of water, 212 degrees F at sea level. In my M3, I have an oil temperature gauge and my 10 mi commute to the train is barely long enough to get the oil to heat up to that point to burn off the moisture. So I keep the car in a lower gear than needed to keep the revs a little higher and get the oil warmer quicker. For cars without an oil temp gauge, you might want to look into getting one installed. Hope this helps.

[Blocked Out]

What do you mean "short drives?" One mile, five, fifteen what? My car usually warms up in five minutes and reaches the middle of the gage at that point.

Operating temperature refers to oil being at the operating temp.

Our gauge will show you water temp, but NOT oil temp.

I've figured it out where one needs to drive the car at least 10 min after your thermostat opens for the oil to reach operating temp.

Thermostat will open around 2 minutes (give or take a few seconds) after your water temp gauge it dead middle.

Also keep in mind that the water gauge in our cars is not accurate, it will point dead center when the water is at 170f all the way to 210f, the gauge will still point dead center.

[OrientBlau]

Great info!


thanks!!!

Three common ones:

1) Cracks in the air hoses leading to and from the CCV.
Symptoms: lean condition, P0171 and P0174.
Diagnosis: Remove oil filler cap while at idle. Leaking CCV system will cause stumbling and a very strong suction on the oil filler cap.

2) Failure to separate oil from vapor
Symptoms: More-than-expected oil consumption - oily crankcase gases are being returned to the intake instead of separated properly.
Diagnosis: Check plugs and DISA for oil contamination.

3) Clogged with oil-ice or sludge
Symptoms: 'splosions in the engine bay
Cause: Short trips in cold weather, allowing moisture (inherent to gasoline combustion) to get in the oil and never burn off. Moisture mixes with oil and makes yellow snot. Yellow snot sticks in CCV, car is left outside in freezing temperature, snot turns to ice-snot, then the crankcase vapors that the CCV is supposed to separate instead just build pressure inside the crankcase... until POW!
Early Diagnosis: yellow goo or black sludge under the valve cover or on the underside of the filler cap
Late diagnosis: oil all over the place, terrible lean conditions, maybe oil fills the cylinders, wallet vanishes.

[DAES]

When mine failed everytime in the morning that I turned the engine on I had to give it gas or it would shut down.

I drive to work everyday and the car never reaches operating temp. b/c my trip is really short but when I go to other places it reaches operating temp. Check that your car reaches operating temps on longer trips, if not then we have probably a thermostat problem.

[RangerGress]

I've figured it out where one needs to drive the car at least 10 min after your thermostat opens for the oil to reach operating temp.

It's probably more like 3X that, depending on engine load.

I race an E30 and gone thru a couple phases where I was obsessed with gauges, sensors and feeding info into the data logger. If I let the car idle for about 20min the oil temp will get to around 140deg. It takes another 20-25min for the oil temp to get up to equilibrium temp which is between 190-220deg, depending on how I had my oil cooling set up.

The least effective oil cooling set up was the OEM oil cooler. The most effective oil cooling set up was to allow lots of air to blast at the oil pan. Large OEM oil coolers performed somewhere in the middle depending on the size of the oil cooler and how much work was done with ducting and shrouding to ensure that the oil cooler got lots of air flow.

Sure, the M52 isn't the M20 but the design of everything that matters to oil temp is pretty much the same. Same basic water jacket design in the block and head.

[hs819]

Three common ones:

1) Cracks in the air hoses leading to and from the CCV.
Symptoms: lean condition, P0171 and P0174.
Diagnosis: Remove oil filler cap while at idle. Leaking CCV system will cause stumbling and a very strong suction on the oil filler cap.

2) Failure to separate oil from vapor
Symptoms: More-than-expected oil consumption - oily crankcase gases are being returned to the intake instead of separated properly.
Diagnosis: Check plugs and DISA for oil contamination.

3) Clogged with oil-ice or sludge
Symptoms: 'splosions in the engine bay
Cause: Short trips in cold weather, allowing moisture (inherent to gasoline combustion) to get in the oil and never burn off. Moisture mixes with oil and makes yellow snot. Yellow snot sticks in CCV, car is left outside in freezing temperature, snot turns to ice-snot, then the crankcase vapors that the CCV is supposed to separate instead just build pressure inside the crankcase... until POW!
Early Diagnosis: yellow goo or black sludge under the valve cover or on the underside of the filler cap
Late diagnosis: oil all over the place, terrible lean conditions, maybe oil fills the cylinders, wallet vanishes.

I realize this is an old post but I am just about to replace the CVV on a 99 323i without about 160k. The symptoms that my car is experiencing is a chewbacca-like noise coming from the engine (which matches what others with failing CCV have described) and the low oil pressure light momentariliy coming on after starting the car.

Before I buy the parts, do you think I should go through the above diagnosis to pinpoint the problem or is the CCV going to need replacement regardless? I'm more concerned with point #3 about short trips in cold weather. I've been doing 10minutes trips to work this past winter in 30 degree weather. The noise problems started last week. I'm assuming this may have something to do with it. Before going through the work of looking for leaks and sludge in the engine, can I just assume the CCV is bad and need replacing?

Also, I'm going to be buying the CVV cold weather kit complete with insulating hoses. Anything else needed to complete the job? Thanks

[bmwbob89]

New style oil dipstick and o ring. Throttle body gasket.

[tonycst]

I would drive 10 minutes to work and back (8.5 hrs later) when it rains or too cold. Otherwise i ride motorcycle.
Car would stay outside and it could stay there for days. (Going to church 2 times a week about 50 miles each way or little over 20 minutes, but that's all)
Here is a picture of the valve cover
i960.photobucket dot com/albums/ae90/adpdirty/2000%20BMW%20323i/ValveCover_zpsb395fc16.jpg (replace dot with . because i cant post pictures)

And breather hose.
i960.photobucket dot com/albums/ae90/adpdirty/2000%20BMW%20323i/Breather_zps8e80a144.jpg (replace dot with . because i cant post pictures)

So i pulled the ccv thing and disconnected all tubbings, flushed them with soap and water. took appart the ccv thing and cleaned it inside and out. Everything was clogged up with goo.
I am not sure why so much water ha accumulated, but what do i do ? Do i replace the CCV or getting it cleaned up is enough ? I cleaned entire air system including one by injectors, this goo was everywhere, not sure how deep it went.
Also can i reuse 1 year old valve cover gasket i put on last year ? It looks great

I started to check because i recently noticed that car changed sound. Sound is recorded here (replace dot with . because i cant post urls's)
youtube dot com/watch?v=s1PC1QdvofA i suspected valves but there is no sign of any abnormal wear on them. I will do an adjustment (if it will help the noise to go away) otherwise i dont know what makes the noise.

no codes from computer at all

[tonycst]

The symptoms that my car is experiencing is a chewbacca-like noise coming from the engine

I had same noise.
I cleaned up every airway i could possibly pull out including taking apart oil separator and cleaning gunked up membrane and all tubing attached.
Put everything back together, checked valves (hydraulic self adjusting, thought i'd need to adjust but turned out not to) but the noise did not go away.
It sounds even worse with the top cover off.
I think the water damage is inside the head
I have no clue what might be damaged down there and i am afraid to deal with head removal (that that i wont be able to take it off, but to timing is something i am scared of since i dont have any tools to deal with timing)


SUCKS

[DuWop]

this is one of them, but it does not happen to everyone.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9oqtvz2fp0[/ame]

lol

[DuWop]

I had same noise.
I cleaned up every airway i could possibly pull out including taking apart oil separator and cleaning gunked up membrane and all tubing attached.
Put everything back together, checked valves (hydraulic self adjusting, thought i'd need to adjust but turned out not to) but the noise did not go away.
It sounds even worse with the top cover off.
I think the water damage is inside the head
I have no clue what might be damaged down there and i am afraid to deal with head removal (that that i wont be able to take it off, but to timing is something i am scared of since i dont have any tools to deal with timing)


SUCKS

What causes you to think there is a problem with the head? If you do a compression test and everything is OK I don't think anything is wrong with the head that I'm aware of.

[jabela]

I've logged my drive to work (~30 min, mostly hwy) and coolant temps range 85-97C (185-207F) when ambient temp was 3C (37F). Eventually oil temps barely go over 100C, which is the point where the moisture in the oil will be boiled off. However, the boiling point of and oily water mixture may be higher, but that could be offset by the slight vacuum in the CCV?
Data was logged using INPA on my laptop plugged into the OBDII port.

chart_2.png

[berny2435]

Going to bump this

98 M3 with 109K
I have a P0466 code that came on again. It came on for a couple days about a month ago and then went away

In doing some research, I found many videos and this one below shows a lot of suction through the oil dipstick and oil fill cap on the valve cover.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3yLJaGkk8g

My car has similar suction. Maybe not as bad as this guys and my CCV doesn't make any weird noises.

When I have the motor running, and I take off either the oil fill cap or the line on the front of the valve cover, the engine will start to idle rough but wont completely die.

So I guess the question is, should I replace the CCV? try to clean it out or??

I bought the car in late May so I don't have much experience with it. It has 109K on it. Uses more oil than I would think is natural but doesn't display huge puff of smoke out back or anything. Runs well but cold idle is getting more rough. CAI, Dinan chip, Remus Cat back. Spark Plugs looked great but a couple did have some oil up on the threads.

Thanks for the replies

[jabela]

Going to bump this

98 M3 with 109K
I have a P0466 code that came on again. It came on for a couple days about a month ago and then went away

In doing some research, I found many videos and this one below shows a lot of suction through the oil dipstick and oil fill cap on the valve cover.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3yLJaGkk8g

My car has similar suction. Maybe not as bad as this guys and my CCV doesn't make any weird noises.

When I have the motor running, and I take off either the oil fill cap or the line on the front of the valve cover, the engine will start to idle rough but wont completely die.

So I guess the question is, should I replace the CCV? try to clean it out or??

I bought the car in late May so I don't have much experience with it. It has 109K on it. Uses more oil than I would think is natural but doesn't display huge puff of smoke out back or anything. Runs well but cold idle is getting more rough. CAI, Dinan chip, Remus Cat back. Spark Plugs looked great but a couple did have some oil up on the threads.

Thanks for the replies

Sounds like you need an all new CCV to me.