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Thread: Simple explanations, FAQ

  1. #1
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    Question Simple explanations, FAQ

    I am trying to figure out what software setup to go with but this forum is tremendously confusing for me so I was hoping to try and get some simpler answers to my questions.

    1. I am working on an e36 but I think all of these software packages generally works for all late model BMWs...or do they?

    2. What is the software of choice? I realize people have different needs but is there one package that does everything you could need to do? Is there a combination of two that would take care of everything or do I really need a large collection of different packages?

    Carsoft
    GT1
    INPA
    DIS
    EDIABAS

    3. Cables. Is there a definitive answer on what cables will work for these packages? Is there one sort of universal cable that will work for most anything?

    Reading and re-reading the posts in here haven't pointed me towards any real conclusions so some help would be greatly appreciated.

    thanks.
    Last edited by RevM; 02-01-2010 at 04:35 PM.

  2. #2
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    This is a tall order but I will give it a shot:-

    Carsoft Ultimate Home is an aftermarket diagnostic program designed to allow home mechanics to read and erase fault codes and reset service intervals. It has the capability to access most modules in your car including airbags, can display live engine data on post 1996 models and test components such as power windows and central locking. It does not perform any programming functions but can perform limited option coding on some models. Carsoft v6.5 is a pirated version of Carsoft's own v6.5 beta program, there are dozens of versions about, some with limited functionality and in languages other than English. v6.5 is not supported by the manufacturer and deals with cars up to about April 2004. Later versions of Carsoft are the genuine article, have full factory support and generally carry a 2 year warranty.

    INPA is a diagnostic interpreter program that communicates with your car using BMW's own factory developed Electronic Diagnosis and Information protocol (EDIABAS). INPA is a powerful and comprehensive diagnostic tool but there is no simple handbook available that I know of which will comprehensively explain its operation or functions. The bottom line with INPA is if you do not understand what a particular function does, you are probably better off leaving that function alone, but having said that, the level of diagnostic functionality is truly exceptional.

    Being the Factory diagnostic protocol, EDIABAS can accomplish virtually any programming/diagnostic or coding function, but since it is only a computer protocol, requires seperate programs to interface between the user and EDIABAS so that it can receive and trasmit instructions. For example INPA communicates with EDIABAS to perform diagnostics, NCS to perform coding and NFS to perform programming functions. NCS and NFS are not particularly user-friendly and require fairly intimate knowledge of BMW systems to use. If used incorrectly, programs which communicate via EDIABAS have the potential to destroy computer modules, making replacement the only viable option.

    DIS (Diagnostic Information System) uses Dealer level programs such as GT1 to communicate with your car (again via EDIABAS). Being a dealer rather than factory level tool, the user interface is far more user friendly than INPA/NCS/NFS and allows the user to communicate diagnostic, coding and programming commands in plain English. DIS/GT1 is powerful and offers the ability to access repair information which is not available by using INPA or the Carsoft Home editions.

    Having escaped the closed dealer/factory fraternity, don't expect any help or sympathy from BMW or its dealer network if you run into trouble using any of the EDIABAS based systems (i.e. INPA/NCS/NFS/DIS/GT1 etc.)

    There are plenty of interface cable combinations available but I would choose the one that is tailored to the particular type of diagnostic software you choose.
    Last edited by David Mc; 02-01-2010 at 05:31 PM.

  3. #3
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    Good summary David.

    Basically....DIS/GT1 is more idiot proof, as this was released to the general dealers.

    INPA, NCS, NFS via EDIBAS is powerful, and basically the tool used in-house for BMW engineers. Thus, is very robust, but you can certainly smoke things.

    The various versions of CarSoft seem to work reasonable, but sometimes quirky.

    These are my observations in my process of selecting software.

    BTW...I have a laptop setup with DIS, INPA/EDIBAS, and Carsoft 6.5. This machine was built by Randomy and works. So...we know that his and Davids ways to do this are real.

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    http://www.8Coupe.com - Please register, spot, and help the project.

  4. #4
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    Not trying to hi-jack this thread, but I also have the same questions? What would be the difference in a good diagnostic program verses a good scan code reader, such as a Genesis 4.0 system. My car goes out of warranty next month, & don't want to be at the dealers mercy! I don't mind spending the money, I just want something to be compatable with other cars. All of the above software programs sound confusing, but with time anythings possible!

    What would the cost of DIS (Diagnostic Information System) be, including cables?

    Thanks

  5. #5
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    I also have an Actron CP9180 Scan tool - which I don't even bother using on BMW's. Scan tools are generally pretty limited unless specifically designed for use on Bimmers and then they come at a premium. If you already have a laptop and some patience, you can get up and running with DIS/GT1 for the cost of the cables.

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    What is a reliable site to purchase this from. What is the best price available? Does the software come with the hardware, or is it downloaded from the internet? I know, lots of questions!

    Thanks

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    Now is where you research begins - look at DIS/GT1 threads on this forum for links to software and installation instructions and when you have decided what you are going with, choose cables from there. If I was only interested in DIS/GT1 for an OBD2 compliant 2005 model, I would probably begin with ebay for a VAGCOM KKL interface based on a FTDI FT232Rx chipset.

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    After doing a lot of reading today, I am confused on what software & hardware is needed for GT1. I talked with the local BMW shop foreman today, & he said that GT1 would not work without an interface box. He also said if any car was brought into a shop with SSS modifications, that BMW would be actively seeking you out. GT1 is ok, but SSS is a no no!

    Is this correct?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendM View Post
    Carsoft
    I have used version 6.5 SP1 and I can say it is utter crap. Not even the codes that Carsoft output match what DIS states. If I try to do car memory in my old E39 it either fails and sets a fault code in the IKE that it can not resolve, or it works and sets a fault code in the IKE that it can not resolve! I would not trust the functions for exchange DME, EWS, etc!!!


    GT1
    It is a hardware platform that runs DIS software. This is the one commonly emulated in the aftermarket community.

    DIS
    Can refer to the old hardware platform that ran DIS software (now superceeded by DISplus, then superceeded by ISIS system) or just DIS software itself.

    INPA
    It is some sort of BMW factory software. Think of it like the non-crappy version of Carsoft, but it can not do any coding at all.

    EDIABAS
    This is the API for communications of the system. There is also IFS-Service that talks with DIS software via TCP/IP. When you install INPA EDIABAS is installed. You do not really interact with EDIABAS except messing with config files perhaps when getting it setup at first. VW uses EDIABAS software as well in some (all?) of their VAS505x testers.

    3. Cables. Is there a definitive answer on what cables will work for these packages? Is there one sort of universal cable that will work for most anything?
    That would be an ADS interface will run ~$150. You can use $20 or so VAG KKL cable from eBay modified, but it will not work in older cars such as E34, E36. Or it might work in these cars only for some modules.

    Then in newer cars (I belive 2007+) CAN bus is used and neither ADS or OBD cables work. (I wonder what about VAG CAN cable??)
    Last edited by joako; 02-02-2010 at 07:13 PM.

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    Are you saying they are premodified, then sold on eBay?

  11. #11
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    No I am saying you can buy a VAG KKL cable on eBay which is intended to diagnose Volkswagen cars and modify it. After you modify it it will work with the newer non-CAN cars E46, E39, E38, E53 and forward.

    And if you are trying to diagnose E38, E38, E46 with 20-pin diagnostics socket under the hood you additionally need a passive OBD2 female to 20-pin round BMW diagnostic socket adapter.

    Also saw this. Never tried it....

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-E...motiveQ5fTools
    Last edited by joako; 02-03-2010 at 01:28 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  12. #12
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    Dirtbuster, I have no need for SSS, but since it was offered as a subscribed service by BMW, I could understand them being bitter about non-paying users using the service for free. If you google "sss progman" however, it will be obvious that if BMW is seeking out all illicit users of sss, they will not have much time left to worry about building cars.

  13. #13
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    BMW does offer a service, bmwtis.com and with the proper hardware you can do coding and programming.

    But what we are talking about here is software that has been downloaded and installed locally, it is not interacting with any BMW service in realtime.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Mc View Post
    Dirtbuster, I have no need for SSS, but since it was offered as a subscribed service by BMW, I could understand them being bitter about non-paying users using the service for free. If you google "sss progman" however, it will be obvious that if BMW is seeking out all illicit users of sss, they will not have much time left to worry about building cars.

    I was just giving feedback on what they told me. The shop foreman was not threatning, just trying to make me aware of what could happen. He was actually surprised that I would go through the effort of trying to get GT1 running. I have printed out your "what to do list", and currently trying to download all of the neccessary items. Your help is much appreciated!

    Is there a way to download folders or multiple files in one download on 4share?
    Last edited by Dirtbuster1; 02-03-2010 at 01:39 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  15. #15
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    Ok, so it looks like GT1 is what I need. I want to check error codes and reset various modules. I am still not clear on the cables though.

    For an E36 should I use a VAG KKL cable?

    Would the carsoft cables...20 pin round underhood or 16 pin odb2 be better or just as good?

  16. #16
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    For an E36 I use an ADS interface.

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    FYI for anyone else who didn't know, the ADS interface is the round 20 pin connector.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirtbuster1 View Post
    Not trying to hi-jack this thread, but I also have the same questions? What would be the difference in a good diagnostic program verses a good scan code reader, such as a Genesis 4.0 system. My car goes out of warranty next month, & don't want to be at the dealers mercy! I don't mind spending the money, I just want something to be compatable with other cars. All of the above software programs sound confusing, but with time anythings possible!

    What would the cost of DIS (Diagnostic Information System) be, including cables?

    Thanks

    I used to have a Genisys EVO (stolen), it's ok for BMW, you get codes and data for the main modules ie engine, trans, abs, srs, instrument cluster. obscure stuff like radio, power seat controller, etc is hit or miss. And last time I check (about a year ago) the latest european software pakage was only up to 2005. Other options for an easy to use, hand held, multi car scanner would be Launch's X431 series, Snap-on solus or Modis (big money) or there's a newer one to the states called Autoboss. From what i've heard its comparable to the Launch. The Launch is what you will find that most independant european repair shops have. The Diagun (what i have for my shop) is a pretty good tool, bluetooth wireless is nice for running back and forth to the computer for diag info. And cheap compaired to snapon. I've used just about every one of the shop level scanners and launch is the best for europe, followed by snapon for vw, mercedes, and bmw (doesn't do any other european) and genisys is just as good as snapon for just those 3 europeans. On the other hand the Launch is only above average in Asian and sucks for american. The Snapon and Genisys are great in both US and Asian. Just my 2 cents

  19. #19
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    Thanks for all of the replies. It seems that I probably will go with the GT1 if I can fiqure out how to set it up. I will probably have to get my son to help me, since he is taking some programming courses.

    It seems that maybe I might be in a different situation than most, by looking at your models that most are working on. I believe DavidMc said that I could just go with the DIS/GT1 package. I think that I have downloaded most of the software, but I am still confused on what software I need for my 2005 645Ci. Looks like I will need some type of interface, but still not sure depending on cables. My head is still spinning after reading all of the info. I love a good challenge, but this is alot to digest! It alos seems that no matter which computer route that you go, settings will be different. So I'm thinking to get the software loaded & running, then face the learning curve of which cable combination to go with.

    This is a great thread, with a bunch of knowledgable people.

    Thanks for all of the input!

  20. #20
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    David MC, I installed GT1 using your walkthrough and your downloads. It went flawlessly. Thank you very much for setting that up as well and the responses in the this thread.

    Just to clarify...for someone using GT1 it goes:

    Car ==> Interface ==> Ediabas ==> GT1?

  21. #21
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    Congrats to you, Randomy and the other members for their valuable inputs.

  22. #22
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    Please correct me if wrong:
    To get GT1 running with a 1997 E39 with 20pin I only need to buy a ADS interface, (195 us$ on ebay) no need for a yellowhead for 2-3 times more?
    Last edited by 540ess; 02-11-2010 at 03:04 PM.

  23. #23
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    hi, you dont need the expensive GT1 yellow head if you are going to use a VAG cable and install DIS on VMWare.

    The price you mention is very expensive, I am under the impression that this cable can be modified to work just fine.

    Cheers
    C

  24. #24
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    E39 should work with OBD-II interface with 20-pin plug under the hood. You can use modified VAG KKL cable + OBD-II to 20 pin adapter. I have also seen this for sale: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...K%3AMEWAX%3AIT

    Also notice the 20 pin adapater. Maybe very well its the VAG KKL with the modifications alread?

    NEW Ediabas/INPA 4 BMW 100% compatible OBDII Interface





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  25. #25
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    I just got the cable kit joako shows photo of, but have not tested yet as a laptop with a serial port is on its way.
    The software on the cd are ediabas inpa, but maybe the cables will work on a GT1 setup too?

    But what are the benefits of the yellowheads, if a more "standard" cable can do the same? VMWare - no VMWare?
    Last edited by 540ess; 02-12-2010 at 04:54 PM.

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