1/4 mile results: M3 with bolt-ons **videos**

[GG///M3]

Something else that throws up a red flag for me is the mph on the E92 M3 DCT. Those cars should be trapping much higher than that shouldn't they? I could have sworn they should be hitting 110+mph. If that is the case then your car has a lot more mph in it as well than what that track allowed you to trap.

It could be the fact that the track is higher then sea level.

[m3chaser]

It could be the fact that the track is higher then sea level.

I wouldn't think that 900ft above sea level is going to take away 5+mph. I could be off there, but I am guessing that the air was crap that day.

To give you an idea of what bad air can do to your ET and traps, I went to the track with the same mods I have now and trapped 99mph and as low as 97mph and couldn't get better than a 13.47.

I think the trap speeds were killed by the air more than the elevation.

Jonathan was anyone else complaining about low traps or slower ET's?

[langley]

Nice runs. Your thread is laid out really well.

[iamnotsakred]

First of all. Nice runs slow guy. 12's are definitely possible. What did i tell you about granny shifting into second, and not double clutching like you should?

Go buy some mickey thompsons and be done with it, or you could run on streets like me ahahaha.

I think if I threw some good DRs on my car I could hit a 1.7 60ft and possibly hit a 13 flat or a really high 12.9 but I probably won't ever do that. I think it is possible for you to get a 1.7 60ft as well with the right tires. If you did that you would be running 12.8's or slightly better.

I offered him my MT ET streets' on some dummy rims, all he needed was an adapter. He was being a girl about it. Had he listened to me he would be in the 12's.

Hammad

[Uraharasan]

granny shifting into second, and not double clutching like you should?

Fast and the Furious quotes ftw.

[m3chaser]

First of all. Nice runs slow guy. 12's are definitely possible. What did i tell you about granny shifting into second, and not double clutching like you should?



I offered him my MT ET streets' on some dummy rims, all he needed was an adapter. He was being a girl about it. Had he listened to me he would be in the 12's.

Hammad

What gets me is the MPH from the E92 M3. No way that a car that is capable of hitting 110mph+ through the traps should be trapping that low.

[Uraharasan]

What gets me is the MPH from the E92 M3. No way that a car that is capable of hitting 110mph+ through the traps should be trapping that low.

Not using launch control + using the paddles to shift early instead of letting the DSC do it's job? Only thing I could think of.

[m3luckyoo]

Its hard to believe that the 555Rs had no traction. You sure you were heating them up right? All I had to do is a quick burn out. Eventually these tires had so much grip that I broke my driveshaft. I was doing 5k rpm launches because it kept on bogging out my engine. hmmm- weird. Obviously from that point out I only drag race in street tires.

Great times BTW. I should be in that low 13 sec territory as soon as i get a refreshed engine with some good summer street rubber.

[iamnotsakred]

What gets me is the MPH from the E92 M3. No way that a car that is capable of hitting 110mph+ through the traps should be trapping that low.

I think his tractions issues may have played a big part in that unimpressive trap speed, moreso then the DA. A 2.5 60ft warrants a big lift off the throttle. But either way by looking at that run. Jon was a head by a full second by the time the E92 reached the first 60ft of the track. The E92 would have to have run a 12.3 or faster to win that race. A 12.3 would be hard for an average driver to pull off with a proper run in an E92M.

Hammad

[m3chaser]

I think his tractions issues may have played a big part in that unimpressive trap speed, moreso then the DA. A 2.5 60ft warrants a big lift off the throttle. But either way by looking at that run. Jon was a head by a full second by the time the E92 reached the first 60ft of the track. The E92 would have to have run a 12.3 or faster to win that race. A 12.3 would be hard for an average driver to pull off with a proper run in an E92M.

Hammad

I have pulled crappy 2.3 60fts before and still trapped very similar mph with runs where I had good launches. Normally when you get a really good launch your trap speed will be down a little, but when you don't get that much traction your trap speed may be up a little but your ET sucks.

[iamnotsakred]

I have pulled crappy 2.3 60fts before and still trapped very similar mph with runs where I had good launches. Normally when you get a really good launch your trap speed will be down a little, but when you don't get that much traction your trap speed may be up a little but your ET sucks.

Yeah im a firm believer in this phenomenon. I have experienced that myself. Im thinking there was a lift somewhere in that run.

Hammad

[jworms]

Just got your PM.

Great runs considering you couldn't get traction. Your car is capable of 12's I believe. If you were able to get a 60ft like mine you would have hit 12.9's I believe. Where were you at on the tach when you passed the traps? Your car is definitely faster than mine but the launch is tough when the tires aren't doing their job. Go buy some mickey thompsons and be done with it, or you could run on streets like me ahahaha.

I think if I threw some good DRs on my car I could hit a 1.7 60ft and possibly hit a 13 flat or a really high 12.9 but I probably won't ever do that. I think it is possible for you to get a 1.7 60ft as well with the right tires. If you did that you would be running 12.8's or slightly better.

Something else that throws up a red flag for me is the mph on the E92 M3 DCT. Those cars should be trapping much higher than that shouldn't they? I could have sworn they should be hitting 110+mph. If that is the case then your car has a lot more mph in it as well than what that track allowed you to trap.

i really think you're right. if i could have pulled a 60ft like yours and no chirping on gear shifts then i don't see why a 12 second run wouldn't show up.

and yeah...my gearing is not really helping me with the 1/4 mile. the DRs i ran are actually a bit taller than what i normally run...almost negating the benefits of my shorter diff ratio (a sacrifice i was willing to make if the tires actually stuck ). i don't remember exactly which RPM i was at when crossing the line, but i know it's shortly after i shift into 4th and probably around 6000RPM. if i can get some shorter tires to raise that ending RPM, i think the results would definitely show improvement all around.

as for the E92 M3, he was having some really bad traction issues. i can only imagine how much lifting and short shifting he was doing on that run. i only posted it because it was one of my better runs and it seemed like a perfect example of what can happen in street encounters where these traction variables aren't as easy to distinguish. i fully understand that my car won't trap anywhere near what that e92 M3 is capable of.

Nice runs. Which type of tire do you plan on running on the next go around?

thanks. not sure yet about the tires i'll run next time. i'm thinking some mickey thompsons though.

probably these: http://www.mickeythompsontires.com/s...ETStreetRadial


it's still a radial tire, which is probably what i'll stick with for a while ...just need to get some matching wheels for those things.

i'm a bit nervous about trying a non-radial tire (like MT ET Streets) with the stuff i've heard about their "shifty" characteristics on the track. the last thing i want to do is crash my car.

You take running 13s waaayyyyy too seriously man.

and why are you running the hfm at all if it's not plugged in? go get a length of PVC that's 3.5" diameter and run that instead....if you're not going to use it, right?

i'm not sure what you mean by taking things too seriously :

the MAF is in place to show that the stuff i'm doing isn't custom, or out of reach for the typical E36 M3 owner. once the point is made, i plan on taking creeves' up on his intake advice which would involve removing the MAF altogether. those will be some interesting times!

I wouldn't think that 900ft above sea level is going to take away 5+mph. I could be off there, but I am guessing that the air was crap that day.

To give you an idea of what bad air can do to your ET and traps, I went to the track with the same mods I have now and trapped 99mph and as low as 97mph and couldn't get better than a 13.47.

I think the trap speeds were killed by the air more than the elevation.

Jonathan was anyone else complaining about low traps or slower ET's?

i believe people were saying that trap speeds were generally a couple mph slower than the last sacramento rental - for whatever that's worth. i know that E92 M3 ran significantly better that day than the run i caught on video. i think he mentioned that on his best run that day he trapped in the 115mph neighborhood and pulled around 12.6 or 12.7. in other words, i really wouldn't put much faith in that E92 run i caught on video. i just found it entertaining and it happened to be one of my best runs with one of his worst

First of all. Nice runs slow guy. 12's are definitely possible. What did i tell you about granny shifting into second, and not double clutching like you should?



I offered him my MT ET streets' on some dummy rims, all he needed was an adapter. He was being a girl about it. Had he listened to me he would be in the 12's.

Hammad

hahaha. yeah, i might have been in the 12s with them...but i have a feeling that those tires would be the end of me and my car. even if i don't crash it with them, i think i'd end up breaking driveline components with the amount of grip they have. i don't need a 1.6X 60ft like those are willing to provide, but a 1.8 or even a 1.7 would be awesome.

Its hard to believe that the 555Rs had no traction. You sure you were heating them up right? All I had to do is a quick burn out. Eventually these tires had so much grip that I broke my driveshaft. I was doing 5k rpm launches because it kept on bogging out my engine. hmmm- weird. Obviously from that point out I only drag race in street tires.

Great times BTW. I should be in that low 13 sec territory as soon as i get a refreshed engine with some good summer street rubber.

thanks man! can't wait to see what you pull with a clean engine

i'm not sure what to tell you about the tires. i tried doing a quick burnout and doing some longer ones with smoke pouring out from the back of the car. nothing seemed to work, or even make things marginally better so that i could continue down a certain path. i consistently pulled 2.0X 60ft times all day. it's not even the launch that really gets to me with these tires, it's the fact that they couldn't even handle me shifting quickly without chirping

[m3chaser]

i really think you're right. if i could have pulled a 60ft like yours and no chirping on gear shifts then i don't see why a 12 second run wouldn't show up.

and yeah...my gearing is not really helping me with the 1/4 mile. the DRs i ran are actually a bit taller than what i normally run...almost negating the benefits of my shorter diff ratio (a sacrifice i was willing to make if the tires actually stuck ). i don't remember exactly which RPM i was at when crossing the line, but i know it's shortly after i shift into 4th and probably around 6000RPM. if i can get some shorter tires to raise that ending RPM, i think the results would definitely show improvement all around.

as for the E92 M3, he was having some really bad traction issues. i can only imagine how much lifting and short shifting he was doing on that run. i only posted it because it was one of my better runs and it seemed like a perfect example of what can happen in street encounters where these traction variables aren't as easy to distinguish. i fully understand that my car won't trap anywhere near what that e92 M3 is capable of.

thanks. not sure yet about the tires i'll run next time. i'm thinking some mickey thompsons though.

probably these: http://www.mickeythompsontires.com/s...ETStreetRadial


it's still a radial tire, which is probably what i'll stick with for a while ...just need to get some matching wheels for those things.

i'm a bit nervous about trying a non-radial tire (like MT ET Streets) with the stuff i've heard about their "shifty" characteristics on the track. the last thing i want to do is crash my car.


i'm not sure what you mean by taking things too seriously :

the MAF is in place to show that the stuff i'm doing isn't custom, or out of reach for the typical E36 M3 owner. once the point is made, i plan on taking creeves' up on his intake advice which would involve removing the MAF altogether. those will be some interesting times!



i believe people were saying that trap speeds were generally a couple mph slower than the last sacramento rental - for whatever that's worth. i know that E92 M3 ran significantly better that day than the run i caught on video. i think he mentioned that on his best run that day he trapped in the 115mph neighborhood and pulled around 12.6 or 12.7. in other words, i really wouldn't put much faith in that E92 run i caught on video. i just found it entertaining and it happened to be one of my best runs with one of his worst



hahaha. yeah, i might have been in the 12s with them...but i have a feeling that those tires would be the end of me and my car. even if i don't crash it with them, i think i'd end up breaking driveline components with the amount of grip they have. i don't need a 1.6X 60ft like those are willing to provide, but a 1.8 or even a 1.7 would be awesome.


thanks man! can't wait to see what you pull with a clean engine

i'm not sure what to tell you about the tires. i tried doing a quick burnout and doing some longer ones with smoke pouring out from the back of the car. nothing seemed to work, or even make things marginally better so that i could continue down a certain path. i consistently pulled 2.0X 60ft times all day. it's not even the launch that really gets to me with these tires, it's the fact that they couldn't even handle me shifting quickly without chirping

I still say you go with the MT's because you don't have to dump the clutch at 6K rpms to get a good launch out of them. I would still launch at 5K and just don't dump the clutch.

I was spinning 2nd gear pretty good and chirping 3rd pretty hard with the 13.2 run. It's the nature of the beast with street tires.

[m3luckyoo]

I dont think you can avoid high RPM launches with grippy tires- why would you not launch high with mickey thompsons? The engine will still bog because of the grip- just like drag radials... o_O

The highest I ever launched was 5500 rpm or so with drag radials- i can just imagine MTs... I would have to redline- lol.

[jworms]

I still say you go with the MT's because you don't have to dump the clutch at 6K rpms to get a good launch out of them. I would still launch at 5K and just don't dump the clutch.

I was spinning 2nd gear pretty good and chirping 3rd pretty hard with the 13.2 run. It's the nature of the beast with street tires.

while i would agree that the MTs will definitely get me the results i'm looking for (and probably much more!), i know that i didn't have these traction issues with the hard sidewall rcomps i was running before and those are far from good drag racing tires. i think i've just learned that nitto drag radials aren't the greatest and i need to just man up and get some real DRs like those mickeys i mentioned.

btw, if you're having traction issues like that, i can't imagine what you might run with a stickier tire

I dont think you can avoid high RPM launches with grippy tires- why would you not launch high with mickey thompsons? The engine will still bog because of the grip- just like drag radials... o_O

The highest I ever launched was 5500 rpm or so with drag radials- i can just imagine MTs... I would have to redline- lol.

oh i would definitely launch high with the mickeys. i don't mind launching at higher RPMs at all. it's normal for me to launch between 4500 and 5000 RPM when traction/conditions allow for it.

[m3chaser]

while i would agree that the MTs will definitely get me the results i'm looking for (and probably much more!), i know that i didn't have these traction issues with the hard sidewall rcomps i was running before and those are far from good drag racing tires. i think i've just learned that nitto drag radials aren't the greatest and i need to just man up and get some real DRs like those mickeys i mentioned.

btw, if you're having traction issues like that, i can't imagine what you might run with a stickier tire



oh i would definitely launch high with the mickeys. i don't mind launching at higher RPMs at all. it's normal for me to launch between 4500 and 5000 RPM when traction/conditions allow for it.

Well the spinning a bit in 2nd gear probably hurts a bit, but the chirp in 3rd shouldn't slow me up I don't think.

In the vid you can't hear me spinning going into 2nd, but you can hear me chirp 3rd gear pretty good. The first chirp you hear is my buddy in his Z28:

http://s516.photobucket.com/albums/u...0.flv&newest=1

And I agree with the launching statement. I launched at 5000rpms in the vid above on General UHP Exclaims and I really do think I left some more on the table, albeit not much more though. I don't know if I can do much better on street tires than I did on that run, but I could be wrong.

My buddy will be picking up a catback only 98 TA 6spd Thursday so he and I will have to have a run at the strip when it opens up. Hopefully I can stay ahead of him, but we shall see.

[Mad Dog 20/20]

Nice video footage, Worms - you be shiftin', mang!

[ltw97m3]

glad you got out and got better numbers and had some fun doing so. must have been a rush to hold off the e9x m3. your shifting is hella good.

okay some questions before i critique the rest of the run.
it looks like you may have done your burnout in the water box; am i right?
how much psi were in your tires?

[jworms]

Well the spinning a bit in 2nd gear probably hurts a bit, but the chirp in 3rd shouldn't slow me up I don't think.

In the vid you can't hear me spinning going into 2nd, but you can hear me chirp 3rd gear pretty good. The first chirp you hear is my buddy in his Z28:

http://s516.photobucket.com/albums/u...0.flv&newest=1

And I agree with the launching statement. I launched at 5000rpms in the vid above on General UHP Exclaims and I really do think I left some more on the table, albeit not much more though. I don't know if I can do much better on street tires than I did on that run, but I could be wrong.

My buddy will be picking up a catback only 98 TA 6spd Thursday so he and I will have to have a run at the strip when it opens up. Hopefully I can stay ahead of him, but we shall see.

hey, a chirp is just another moment that the car isn't accelerating

i really think that with better tires you'll be dropping a few tenths...i'm excited to see what else you'll be able to extract from that car of yours in the future!

Nice video footage, Worms - you be shiftin', mang!

thanks!

glad you got out and got better numbers and had some fun doing so. must have been a rush to hold off the e9x m3. your shifting is hella good.

okay some questions before i critique the rest of the run.
it looks like you may have done your burnout in the water box; am i right?
how much psi were in your tires?

hah, thanks man!

yes, did the burnout in the water box. started at around 35-37psi at the beginning of the day and ended up dropping it to around 25-27psi towards the end of the day. my 60ft didn't really change much despite the difference in tire pressure. i consistently pulled 2.0X 60ft times all day and i ran ~10 times.

[ltw97m3]

what i would recommend next time is drive into the water box then drop clutch just to get a quick spin in the water. now drive forward 10feet and then drop 1st or 2nd gear -> wait to see good smoke, as you did.
also the psi is hella high. id start 18psi and make sure the tires are hot and devoid of water; also sometimes the person before you can leave water on the track, be vigilant.
i have [read/]no doubt[read] those tires can get your car a 1.7 short time and a 12.8x pass if above considerations are taken.
even 235/60/15 m/t's wont prevent the results you had if same protocol is followed.

to reiterate, i believe water and relative high psi were your "kryptonite".

[m3luckyoo]

what i would recommend next time is drive into the water box then drop clutch just to get a quick spin in the water. now drive forward 10feet and then drop 1st or 2nd gear -> wait to see good smoke, as you did.
also the psi is hella high. id start 18psi and make sure the tires are hot and devoid of water; also sometimes the person before you can leave water on the track, be vigilant.
i have [read/]no doubt[read] those tires can get your car a 1.7 short time and a 12.8x pass if above considerations are taken.
even 235/60/15 m/t's wont prevent the results you had if same protocol is followed.

to reiterate, i believe water and relative high psi were your "kryptonite".

I agree- when I was doing my runs in the drag radials I would always just drive around the waterbox. Drag radials do not need the whole waterbox burnout showdown thing. Next time I think you should use our suggestions and do a burnout in front of the water box. I remember doing 20-22 psi when I was dragging my car on DRs... That might have been the reason you didnt get into the 12s! =(

[ltw97m3]

^good advice on driving around the water box. i will do this when hot lapping, and just do a quick dry burnout.
its just important for people to understand the role water plays; both negative and positive. we've covered what bad can come of using the water but its important to understand it does help lessen the shock to drivetrain when initiating the burnout.

[jworms]

what i would recommend next time is drive into the water box then drop clutch just to get a quick spin in the water. now drive forward 10feet and then drop 1st or 2nd gear -> wait to see good smoke, as you did.
also the psi is hella high. id start 18psi and make sure the tires are hot and devoid of water; also sometimes the person before you can leave water on the track, be vigilant.
i have [read/]no doubt[read] those tires can get your car a 1.7 short time and a 12.8x pass if above considerations are taken.
even 235/60/15 m/t's wont prevent the results you had if same protocol is followed.

to reiterate, i believe water and relative high psi were your "kryptonite".

I agree- when I was doing my runs in the drag radials I would always just drive around the waterbox. Drag radials do not need the whole waterbox burnout showdown thing. Next time I think you should use our suggestions and do a burnout in front of the water box. I remember doing 20-22 psi when I was dragging my car on DRs... That might have been the reason you didnt get into the 12s! =(

^good advice on driving around the water box. i will do this when hot lapping, and just do a quick dry burnout.
its just important for people to understand the role water plays; both negative and positive. we've covered what bad can come of using the water but its important to understand it does help lessen the shock to drivetrain when initiating the burnout.

bleh, ok. now i really feel bad about how things played out at the track

i think i'm going to try and hit up the local 1/8th mile this week and get some practice in with these DRs.

you guys are awesome! thanks for the advice!

[Hetzle]

I still don't get how you managed to chirp 2nd and 3rd, and for that matter I don't understand how m3chaser spins in 2nd. I've never experienced such traction issues with my car, and I should be making more power at the wheels than both of you. I'm running 245/30 Yoko S-Drives in the rear and I barely chirp 2nd.

Quick question though, why do you guys launch so high (5-6k)? Granted I've yet to go to the strip, but whenever I'm messing around with friends I launch at about 3,500 and it seems to work pretty well (pulled a length on an '03 RS6 from 0-100, they run ~13.5). The car doesn't really seem to bog and all I get is a tiny bit of wheel-hop, maybe it's cuz the cams shifted my torque curve to the right?

Either way your traction issues befuddle me

[Volf]

What race seats are you using? The rear seats don't add TOO much, do they?

When you're trying to get a US spec e36 M3 in the 12's w/ just N/A mods, every little bit counts