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Thread: E65/66 Tech questions.

  1. #1
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    Exclamation E65/66 Tech questions.

    I have asked for help from a friend to help in technical questions of this sub-forum. He is a tech at a BMW dealership, and see's more of these cars than most of us other members do.

    You will see some posts by him. His name is Kyle.

    http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/member.php?u=10444

    I thank him for his help and knowledge.
    Last edited by IcemanBHE; 01-13-2010 at 03:56 AM.
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  2. #2
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    Happy to help out! I know these e65's are technical, and many people on the forum like to do their own work. Unfortunately due to the complexity and electronics on the cars I'm afraid most of my answeres will be "take it to the dealer".

    I'll try and help out as much as possible!

    Kyle
    88M3, 97 840Ci.

  3. #3
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    I am thinking of buying a 2003 745Li with 49000 miles on it for $23,000. I will be trading in my 1997 740iL with 105,000 and they are giving me $2500.

    I have been told that 2002 and 2003 7 series have more problems that 2004+ and as this car is going to be out of warranty I am asking for tech advice as to whether the 2003 model is problematic from a maintenance perspective.

    Scott

  4. #4
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    I have the same concern as Scott. Got my eye on a 2003 745Li with 43k miles. Want to know what some of the common problems Are with these vehicles. I was reading the free car fax on this particular car and saw the starter was replaced at 25k. WTF? 25k? The car was basically brand new!!! I am particulary interested in the tranny in these things. What's goes wrong and what's the average price to replace it.

  5. #5
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    Wink Thanks to Kyle and all the Techs on this forum!

    I'd like to compliment "youse guyz" for putting up with some the questions we ask. I know where the gas goes into my 745 and that's about all. So thanks techs and savvy BMW owners. You make Bimmerforums worthwhile!

    Quote Originally Posted by scottsalisbury View Post
    I am thinking of buying a 2003 745Li with 49000 miles on it for $23,000. I will be trading in my 1997 740iL with 105,000 and they are giving me $2500.

    I have been told that 2002 and 2003 7 series have more problems that 2004+ and as this car is going to be out of warranty I am asking for tech advice as to whether the 2003 model is problematic from a maintenance perspective.

    Scott
    Is that $23,000 minus the $2500? Or $23,000 plus your car? Will you be able to extend the warranty through BMW for a reasonable price? Two months after my warranty expired, the battery went and so did the water pump. Do you know how much it will be to change a headlamp? If you cant' do it yourself, stock up on the KY!
    Last edited by sharkdelrio; 01-14-2010 at 11:19 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by bimmerlova View Post
    I have the same concern as Scott. Got my eye on a 2003 745Li with 43k miles. Want to know what some of the common problems Are with these vehicles. I was reading the free car fax on this particular car and saw the starter was replaced at 25k. WTF? 25k? The car was basically brand new!!! I am particulary interested in the tranny in these things. What's goes wrong and what's the average price to replace it.
    The 03's aren't a terrible year. The N62 motors have their own quirks. They tend to idle a little rough, and are very picky(as are all newer BMW engines) with fuel quality. Generally aslong as you run 91 from a reputable gas station(aka NOT Sams,Costco, etc) then you'll be okay. The electronics are pretty good. You'll have the occasional fuse blow, or a possible catastrophic failure of a modules. The one problem with these vehicles and the electronics is that all of the control modules are coded to the vehicles, and will require a specialist. A common problem with these cars(and owners) is that if something starts leaking, or breaks, it is important to fix it quickly as many things are connected with one another and a small problem can quickly snowball into a big problem...(had a customer with a coolant leak, leaking on the DSC unit. A simple expansion tank replacement just turned into a 2800 dollar DSC unit repair).

    The transmissions aren't terrible. Some problems are corrected with software updates. They are notorious for leaking from the Mechatronics(transmission computer/valvebody) seal and the trans pan. Look at the history to see if they have been replaced recently. I have done maybe 5 or 6 e65 transmissions in the past 2 years. We currently have a customer with 195,000 miles, and I Just put a transmission in his. He was able to source out a used transmission(do not know the price, but it wasn't outrageous). Test drive the vehicle, and if anything feels funny, I would probably stay away from it. We(BMW techs) are not allowed to open or rebuild these transmissions, so if they are shifting funny then a replacement will be needed, unless you go to an independant Transmission shop. I have NOT delt with any independant transmission rebuilders to see if they are able to rebuild them or not.

    As with any car there are problems. These cars were expensive new, and they are going to be expensive to fix. Is the vehicle you're looking at under warranty? Ideallly the best car you could find would be an 05 or 06, still under warranty, or atleast CPO/Maintenance.

    I think I generally do better with specific questions, as I can ramble on when delt with broader ones.

    Kyle
    Last edited by Bimmer8604; 01-14-2010 at 09:36 PM.
    88M3, 97 840Ci.

  7. #7
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    Kyle - i've just posted this on the forum but now seen this post so i'll copy it here.

    Can i swap this:

    E65 730d Saloon, M57N, Europe, RHD, AUTO (GM22) : Single parts, SA 630, trunk
    Transmitter-receiver SIEMENS BIT II 1 84116931712

    Which has the Siemens handset in the centre console/dash (with sim card fitted to car)


    For this:

    E65 730d Saloon, M57N2, Europe, RHD, AUTO (HM22) : SINGLE PARTS F TRUNK CAR TELEPHONE
    Telematics Control Unit GSM 1 09/2005 09/2006 84109113247


    And have bluetooth? Where would the bluetooth antenna plug in?

  8. #8
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    I honestly have no idea, as the US market and European market vehicles are different in many ways. Not only are the engines different, but so are the electornics. We have different FCC standards as far as phones/bluetooth/transmitters go.

    Sorry for the late response, and for the not so helpful info.

    Kyle
    88M3, 97 840Ci.

  9. #9
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    Hello Kyle, I have a 2004 745li with 66,000 miles on it. When I shift the car into park mode, I hear little knocking noises coming from the engine, when I shift into a gear and start moving, it goes away, Whats can this be? Also, when I shift through gears in D mode, it shifts fine but when I take my foot off the gas, in a certain gear, it starts to downshift and the rpm gage kinda goes up and down, What can this be? Also, I parked the car in my garage and I noticed a big leak on the floor, I took it to my mechanic and he said that the transmission pan needs to be replaced because there is a minor crack in it, My Question for this is if I replace the transmission pan and mechitronic sleeve, will the downshift in the transmission go away? I also heard that the transmission could be reprogrammed and could make the little downshift go away.. Thanks

  10. #10
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    Thanks, IcemanBHE & hello, Kyle.

    Kyle,

    From what you've seen, what are some of the common fixes for error msg "Dynamic Drive Inactive"?
    Last edited by Mobile745LI; 02-04-2010 at 01:02 AM.

  11. #11
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    Is it true that stealers charge 1.5 times the quote FRU's for labor as dictated by TIS? My stealer is telling me 1.5 times the quoted figure is normal for any stealer. Thx.

  12. #12
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    First off, Thanks for all the great input helping us maintain our 7's.

    I keep getting Code P2187 & P2189, System too lean at idle.
    Are there some common area's I can check to see what is causing these codes?
    Nuke

  13. #13
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    Sorry again for the delay, life is busy!

    Fly: Trans pans and mechatronic sleeves are VERY common problems on these cars. The downshift problem may/may not go away. I would lean heavier on the not go away. Software may correct your problem, but you could have a bad mechatronics unit. I would suggest fixing the fluid leak(be sure to use BMW Trans Fluid when topping off), then test driving for a few days to see if it gets better. If not, I would look forward into having it checked for codes and maybe a software update.

    Mobile: Have you checked your fluid level? Another common failure is your steering angle sensor. Do the turn signals work properly on the car?

    Barton: Yes, that is typically about right. And I dont care to hear the dealership the "stealership".

    Nuke: What year/model? If its an earlier car it could be your crankcase breathers on the cylinder heads. That is typically the most common cause of lean codes on idle.

    Kyle
    88M3, 97 840Ci.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bimmer8604 View Post
    Sorry again for the delay, life is busy!

    Fly: Trans pans and mechatronic sleeves are VERY common problems on these cars. The downshift problem may/may not go away. I would lean heavier on the not go away. Software may correct your problem, but you could have a bad mechatronics unit. I would suggest fixing the fluid leak(be sure to use BMW Trans Fluid when topping off), then test driving for a few days to see if it gets better. If not, I would look forward into having it checked for codes and maybe a software update.

    Mobile: Have you checked your fluid level? Another common failure is your steering angle sensor. Do the turn signals work properly on the car?

    Barton: Yes, that is typically about right. And I dont care to hear the dealership the "stealership".

    Nuke: What year/model? If its an earlier car it could be your crankcase breathers on the cylinder heads. That is typically the most common cause of lean codes on idle.

    Kyle
    Kyle,
    2005 745Li.
    Great Info all around, your help is much appreciated.
    Nuke

  15. #15
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    Being a 745, I would suspect the breathers to be at fault. You can easily remove your plastic cover on the intake manifold, then remove the two plastic covers on the cylinder heads(they just pop off, the intake cover has 4 bolts). The breathers are on top of the valve covers towards the front. Use a 90 degree pick or small screw driver to pop the covers off and inspect the rubber diaphragms. Most of the time the rubber degrades and tears.

    Thats just a simple procedure, you could have something worse in the mix. Other likely causes are leaky intake manifold gaskets or any other rubber gaskets in the intake system.
    Kyle
    88M3, 97 840Ci.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bimmer8604 View Post
    Sorry again for the delay, life is busy!


    Mobile: Have you checked your fluid level? Another common failure is your steering angle sensor. Do the turn signals work properly on the car?


    Kyle
    Hello, Kyle.

    Thanks for your insight.

    Yes, turn signals are working. Which fluids should I be checking for?

    Mobile745LI

  17. #17
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    Hello,

    I'm having issues with my brand new battery constantly dying. I brought it in for service and they ended up replacing the electric cooling fan as it was drawing off the battery. Well two days later I'm having the same issue. I bought a charger which shows an approximate % of battery "power" when charging. I charged it up to 100% at night - checked it in the morning and I was at 10% power left. I charged it up again last night - only got to 95% before I took the charger off and went to bed. I turned off the ON/OFF switch in the trunk. Checked it this morning and I had 85% power. So now I know it's not a faulty battery. Something is clearly drawing while the car is off....but when that switch is off, not nearly as much.

    My questions are these: 1.) What does the switch in the trunk actually turn off? 2.) What is the best way to diagnose where this problem is coming from? 3.) Is there something more common than other things that causes this problem?

    Thanks in advance,
    Tim

  18. #18
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    Thanks for your time and response

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calli74 View Post
    Hello,

    I'm having issues with my brand new battery constantly dying. I brought it in for service and they ended up replacing the electric cooling fan as it was drawing off the battery. Well two days later I'm having the same issue. I bought a charger which shows an approximate % of battery "power" when charging. I charged it up to 100% at night - checked it in the morning and I was at 10% power left. I charged it up again last night - only got to 95% before I took the charger off and went to bed. I turned off the ON/OFF switch in the trunk. Checked it this morning and I had 85% power. So now I know it's not a faulty battery. Something is clearly drawing while the car is off....but when that switch is off, not nearly as much.

    My questions are these: 1.) What does the switch in the trunk actually turn off? 2.) What is the best way to diagnose where this problem is coming from? 3.) Is there something more common than other things that causes this problem?

    Thanks in advance,
    Tim
    Oh man, e65 battery problems...JOY!!

    There are SOOO many things that can cause battery drains on an e65. Anything from the engine fan to a door module or any other module in the car. These are tricky to diagnose at the dealership, so I can only imagine what it would be like doing it on your own or in a shop w/o proper testing equipment. I hope this can help you out a bit:

    Do NOT pay attention to your charger. Just let it charge over night and start with a fresh charge. The % ratings are probably not very accurate and don't mean anything to me. Get yourself an Amp-Clamp, or if you have access to an ocilloscope use that. It is much easier to see a graphical representation of what is going on while the vehicle is entering sleep mode and when other modules wake it up. Make sure you get one with atleast a maximum 50A and one large enough to clamp over the battery cable in the trunk. Amperage is measured in series. In order to hook up a digital meter you have to disconnect the battery, which completely screws the car up(meaning you will get innacurate readings). An Amp-clamp just clamps around the wire and measures the amperage flowing through the wire.

    Here are some "specifications" regarding e65 battery draws:
    -Vehicle enters sleep mode after 60-70 minutes.
    -No more than 40mA is allowed. Thats 0.040 Amps.

    I would suggest if this is something you want to tackle yourself and try to fix to follow this simple procedure.

    Zero out your amp-clamp, connect to vehicle. Shut vehicle off. Walk away for an hour or so and come back. Check your readings. If you are still over the 40mA spec, start pulling fuses. Do not pull the fuse for your alarm. It will go off and again, screw up your readings. Pull a fuse, and watch your meter. If you think you are onto something, leave it unplugged for a few minutes and make sure the draw is gone. You could leave the fuse out and wake the vehicle back up and let it enter sleep mode to verify that fuse was causing the draw. When you find the fuse, look up what it does. Then find out what modules are connected to that circuit. Re-insert the fuse and tear down the vehicle so you can access all modules on that circuit. Let the vehicle go to sleep and un plug the modules much like you did with the fuses untill you find the one keeping the vehicle awake. Don't be surprised if it takes you all day and you may find more than one fuse that reduces the draw. You are working with elementary tools, and to find the answer easier you need some big boy toys.

    At the dealership we have our testers that can show us battery state-of-charge over the past 30 days. We can look at your drive cycle history and see how long/far you drive the car and how long you park it. The tester will SOMETIMES tell us what module was keeping the car awake, or it may just tell us that a module is failing. It will also tell us if it is your fault the car wont go to sleep(leaving lights on, playing with radio, key in vehicle). The dealership also has an oscilloscope, which allows us to graph the vehicles amperage draw over long periods of time to verify that the battery draw is gone. Even though we have the tools, it can still take us up to a week or more to verify the correction.

    There are a few bulletins out regarding software errors causing battery draws. The dealership will be able to tell you if your vehicle applies.

    As mentioned before, if you DO find the module causing the problem, you cannot just go get another one from a junk yard. You will have to get a new one and have it coded to the vehicle. In order to code a module, programming updates may be required.

    Sounds like you may have screwed yourself by taking it to an independant shop. Not sure of the details, but if you took it to the place you bought it I would have demanded it go to the dealership where qualified technicians can work on the vehicle with the proper diagnostic tools.

    Hope this is somewhat clear to you, any other questions just shoot me a PM or post up here. I think somebody else said he was working on a paper for battery trouble shooting. Maybe some of this info can be mixed in with his.

    Kyle
    Last edited by IcemanBHE; 02-10-2010 at 01:22 AM.
    88M3, 97 840Ci.

  20. #20
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    Kyle...that is awesome bro. Good job.

    Would you and Nah work together and make a new thread for "How to diagnose battery drains" and make it. Be sweet.

    Last edited by IcemanBHE; 02-10-2010 at 01:24 AM.
    95 840Ci, Calypso Red/Silver, 83k - 99 740i, Black/Black, 185k, Alpina Mods - 01 740i, Titanium/Silver, 40k, Sport Pkg
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  21. #21
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    Hi,

    I have a 02 745i and after parking it last night, it wont run today when I tried to start it. When I start it, it spins, but thats it. Ive had this problem before, and I had to get the ews married to the ecu. Pretty much updated all the ecu's too. So what can be the issue now, and why would it do this again.

    Thank, Marc

  22. #22
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    this thread is another reason i love bimmerforums....

    thanks for all the info.

    i am an e38 owner looking to upgrade to a newer 7-series, and i am just browsing to learn and decide if i want to get a pre- or post 2006 7.

    i do all my own work, up to swapping engine out on an e39 in my garage, but this idea of programming modules to a specific car is scaring me.

    what are examples of what this is the case for? is there less programming in the later years (i doubtfully ask)? are there less of these issues on the '06-'09 models?

    from a mechanical/repair standpoint what are the advantages/disadvantages of the e65 vs e66?
    btw i'm parting out a 98 e39 528i - white 118k ran perfect, some front body damage = total out
    http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1154862

  23. #23
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    rmz: Just about EVERY module is a programmed/encoded module. IHKA panels, Lamp Modules, general module, radios, nav computers, etc anything you can think of.

    There are some issues with these cars that are corrected by software updates. Don't be surprised if you take your car in for a check engine light or something like that and they just program it. Being a later car, the software has most likely been corrected and you shouldn't need many updates. They got the kinks out of the system as you could say. A few years ago we were programming cars atleast 2 times a year. We aren't programming them that much anymore.

    There are no real advantages/disadvantages to an e65 or e66. How much room in the rear do you want?

    Kyle
    88M3, 97 840Ci.

  24. #24
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    "How much room in the rear do you want?"

    Man, that's a dealer question if I ever heard one.

    j/k, bro

    great info

    Not a firearms expert

  25. #25
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    Kyle, Thanks so much for your time on this forum.

    I wanted to know if you think the maintenance plan is worthwhile for an '07 750i with 35K mi. front brakes have been done and current maint plan expires 12/2010. plan costs $2500 and is good for addtl 2 yrs after 12/2010.

    Also the records show the car had it's first oil change at 17K miles. Can I deduce from this that it was gently driven? or is that typical mileage for first oil change?

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